DRONES AGAIN. . . .

[Phil Perry]

Just returned form a bit of a "get together" with some flying mates. Someone mentioned Drones, and this started a right discussion,. .! . . .three of those present are serving airline pilots and two are commercials doing charter work, on on small jets and the other on piston aircraft.

 

All but one have had drone encounters, as most of these are not reported by the MSM, and they all reckon that it is becoming a problem, and that it's only a mattter of time before there's a disaster caused by some dickhead playing with a toy drone. Add this to the complete feckwits who regularly shine laser pens at aircraft,. . .well,. . .talk about an "Energetic" discussion !!!

 

My local Maplin electronics store have sold thousands of Drones over the last 12 months, these have been all sorts of models with all sorts of features, the most popular ones being those that have a good HD camera, which can spy on the local good looking lady, thru her windows as she's getting undressed . . . .

 

Perverts are them. . . . My mate Charlie, who works at Maplins, says that he gets LOADS of requests for the "Quietest" drones too. . . .! I cannot think why. . . . .usually from the sort of blokes that you would not want to introduce to your dog. . . .

 

We have had at least one actual drone strike on a commercial aircraft recently, no damage, but the incidents are rising rapidly. CAA are rushing legislation to restrict users. . . .Isn't it a shame, that no sooner we are presented with a useful technological advance, that Joe public gets hold of it and bolloxes it all up for those who could use these advances for sensible and useful purposes. . . . . .

 

Any Aussie input on this ?

 

Phil XX

 

 

[fly_tornado]

[Guest extralite]

People who buy drones are likely perverts and a danger to law abiding god fearing folks. Let's make some more rules.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Simple fix all drones sold to carry GPS and limited by GPS to 300ft. Many ways to fix the problem for over the counter toys, but it has to be done now or they cant be imported or they become illegal. Why do we need a plane to crash first to stop what WILL happen.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

you have got no chance of forcing that sort of change threw. drones all run chinese electronics

 

 

[SSCBD]

you have got no chance of forcing that sort of change threw. drones all run chinese electronics

That's fine FT I understand that:

 

- we shall just wait for an aircraft to come down with a drone strike. Then watch all the idiots say we need to change the law or ban them. And put the operator in jail for murder. Its a loaded gun waiting to go off. Just once I would like to see CASA get ahead of the problem that a blind man can see coming.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You are playing into the hands of the regulators with the hysteria, just last week a widely publicized "drone strike" turned out to be a plastic bag.

 

 

[SSCBD]

You are playing into the hands of the regulators with the hysteria, just last week a widely publicized "drone strike" turned out to be a plastic bag.

FT I am not, and you have your head in the sand. What a stupid comment you made. Peoples lives are at stake.

 

FT - It's an matter of when.

 

When I don't know. Look at the laser lights used at aircraft, by IDIOTS (mostly adults) of low mental ability and they know its wrong - so what has stopped them - nothing. Show me the IQ rating of drone drivers!

 

Wake up FT and smell the coffee - never say never!

 

 

[Ultralights]

a 1.5Kg drone will do no more damage than a 1.5 kg bird... its called physics. force =mass x speed. also, the hundreds of thousands of drones already flying.. as still, not one actual recorded event of a drone strike. i have been doing a uni research assignment on this very issues. and all i can find in official reports, and investigations, is there isnt an issue..

 

so, if everyone has seen them, or had a near miss, why are you NOT reporting it? all whinge and carry on about the drone problem, but pilots are making no effort to report, so real data can be gathered to do something about it. or we just continue making laws based on emotion and un substantiated fear.

 

in my well over 1000 hrs flying, i have had more close encounters with small balloons than anything else.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

technically, you could it a drone but more likely to not hit one.

 

Fear mongering only leads to more restrictions. Regulators will decide it's cheaper to close the airport than ban drones. Look how the Uber rollout has just bowled over the old vested interests of the taxi industry.

 

 

[old man emu]

Ultralights,

 

Just a quick correction of your physics. Force = mass x acceleration.

 

The effects of an impact between a drone and an airplane are like this example.

 

Miles Tugo and Ben Travlun are riding in a bus at highway speed on a nice summer day when an unlucky bug splatters onto the windshield. Miles and Ben begin discussing the physics of the situation. Miles suggests that the momentum change of the bug is much greater than that of the bus. After all, argues Miles, there was no noticeable change in the speed of the bus compared to the obvious change in the speed of the bug. Ben disagrees entirely, arguing that that both bug and bus encounter the same force, momentum change, and impulse. Who do you agree with?

 

Ben Travlun is correct.

 

The bug and bus experience the same force, the same impulse, and the same momentum change. This is contrary to the popular (though false) belief which resembles Miles' statement. The bug has less mass and therefore more acceleration; occupants of the very massive bus do not feel the extremely small acceleration. Furthermore, the bug is composed of a less hardy material and thus splatters all over the windshield. Yet the greater "splatterability" of the bug and the greater acceleration do not mean the bug has a greater force, impulse, or momentum change.

 

In most cases, a collision between a drone and ans airplane will not cause serious damage to the airplane, UNLESS the collision is will the intake of a jet turbine engine, then we will have something similar to the ingestion of a bird. Hudson River here we come!

 

OME

 

 

[Fairoaks Flyer]

We have had a drone flying about, generally late in the day, and at varying altitudes. Following that, houses have been broken into. The local farmers have threatened to shoot the drone down, but look what happened in USA. The person who shot the drone down became the villain and was prosecuted. You can legislate how drones can be flown, but how do you enforce the regulations?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

you have got no chance of forcing that sort of change threw. drones all run chinese electronics

Most likely Hong Kong electronics, and yes there is a difference.

 

Ripley's believe it or not; Chinese are actually not big or knowledgeable with electronics.

 

 

[Jay_1984]

Would like to make two comments on this (speaking as both a RAAus/GA Pilot and a Quad flyer)

 

1. On the issue of GPS fitted, this is fine for the Ready to Fly models (DJI Phantom) and manufacturers are starting to do that. Problem is that many flyers have models built from scratch and built with out a GPS module fitted. No way to guard against that.

 

2. The same peverts that use them to spy on others would be the same kind who would buy regular cameras with good zoom and spy down from higher vantage points, or the same who secretly film others with smartphones hidden under seats or the like, like the story reported a few weeks ago which happened on a Sydney train.

 

I make these two points so say that, as has been mentioned before, that there will always be those who will show no regard for the rules or common decency so I don't think that creating more laws or rules is the best thing. If people are breaking the existing rules now, why would they follow any new laws?

 

What is the answer? I don't know. But I think one thing to do would help is to have more public awareness made of the current rules and guidelines to get the message out to the community of what is acceptable and what is not. Currently the only info is on the CASA website or in flyers on the counter of a hobby shop. (Two places most wouldnt have visited while making their purchase). That way if someone sees a flyer operating illegally, they can report them to authorities and have them dealt with.

 

Just my two cents...

 

 

[dutchroll]

You are playing into the hands of the regulators with the hysteria, just last week a widely publicized "drone strike" turned out to be a plastic bag.

No, it was alleged by the Britsh Transport Minister that the drone strike "may have even been a plastic bag or something" (his exact quoted words) followed by "we're not quite sure what they saw" (again his exact quoted words).

I don't know how you leap from those two statements from a serving government politician to "it turned out to be a plastic bag".

 

FYI there was a drone near-miss in Adelaide at 1,100 ft a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here's an example of what we're dealing with, from a drone operators forum (this incident occurred late last year):

 

Figured it had to happen eventually. I went down by the Sydney Opera House and there was a helicopter buzzing the area that would not leave. So I waited for 45 minutes and he finally left but was replaced by another helicopter which stayed around for only about 15 minutes. When all was clear I got airborne and got some good footage. I was about 390' to get some footage of the Sydney Bridge when I heard that helicopter coming back. I tried to bring it down but saw that guy coming fairly fast at about 250' so I just hovered at about 350'. He flew past about my 5 o'clock which was really too close for me.I decided to bring it back and go since the battery level was getting low anyway. Packed up and started on my way but realized there was another area directly behind the Opera house that would be a great place. Haven't heard any helicopters in some time now so I went up there and started on my second mission. Got a great dronie from that position and flying over the Opera house and was about 10 minutes into flying toward the bridge. Man I wanted some good footage of that bridge... Well about 7 security guys descended on me and told me I was breaking the law.

[Karen Bable]

Ah, you have opened a can of worms here!!! My husband is both a instrument rated pilot and a drone pilot (UOC licensed). CASA is about to bring in some new laws for drones in Australia which will not only endanger pilots, but the general public as well. Check out his video, it explains it really well.

 

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well this is the problem and I'm the last person to suggest that CASA's regs are always well thought out. I have no objection to drone operators per se. Just the idiot ones. We need to stomp on the idiot ones out there because they are proliferating and the responsible ones will find themselves in a minority eventually!

 

 

[Soleair]

Just a quick correction of your physics. Force = mass x acceleration.

Of greater interest to the light plane pilot is the kinetic energy to be dissipated as a result of the collision.

 

And the kinetic energy is found by KE = 1/2 mv 2 (sorry, that's supposed to be v squared)

 

So the speed of the drone has a greater effect than its mass, and I'm guessing most drones are fairly slow.

 

Bruce

 

 

[pmccarthy]

But it is the closing speed that matters, not the drone's speed. Trees have a very low v but you don't want to hit one.

 

 

[Jay_1984]

No, it was alleged by the Britsh Transport Minister that the drone strike "may have even been a plastic bag or something" (his exact quoted words) followed by "we're not quite sure what they saw" (again his exact quoted words).I don't know how you leap from those two statements from a serving government politician to "it turned out to be a plastic bag".

 

FYI there was a drone near-miss in Adelaide at 1,100 ft a couple of weeks ago.

 

Here's an example of what we're dealing with, from a drone operators forum (this incident occurred late last year):

I'm glad the security guards told him off.

 

This is what I mean about more getting the message out. Sure he was complying with the 400ft rule and was more than 3nm from YSSY, but probably didn't realise that he was inside controlled airspace (SFC - 2500') which is often the rule people fail to check.

 

 

[Jay_1984]

Ah, you have opened a can of worms here!!! My husband is both a instrument rated pilot and a drone pilot (UOC licensed). CASA is about to bring in some new laws for drones in Australia which will not only endanger pilots, but the general public as well. Check out his video, it explains it really well.

The thing with this is that the new changes to the laws only apply to commercial operations. The rules regarding having an AOC, doing risk assessments and being properly trained currently apply to those engaged in commercial operations.

 

None of this applies or will (after September 2016) apply to people flying for personal fun. I think (and the amount of you tube videos you find on the net back me up in this) are that the majority of instances where potential conflicts occur do so from from private persons, flying their new bit of gear for fun and wanting to push the limits what these things can do/show off to friends.

 

 

[Soleair]

Trees have a very low v but you don't want to hit one.

Fair point. But trees cheat - they have bloody great roots. . .

 

 

[hihosland]

Soleair did say

 

"Fair point. But trees cheat - they have bloody great roots. . ."

 

envy???

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I am sure had one once or twice.

 

 

[Birdseye]

Simple fix all drones sold to carry GPS and limited by GPS to 300ft. Many ways to fix the problem for over the counter toys, but it has to be done now or they cant be imported or they become illegal. Why do we need a plane to crash first to stop what WILL happen.

Virtually all current drones have the equipment and capability built in to restrict its operations. DJI recently enacted some of that in the US and parts of Europe.