Bunnings aero

[shafs64]

you can buy replacement Chinese disc rotors for motor bikes and for half the price of the original. but when you are racing up to a corner and grab a hand full or front brake and they shatter. you would start thinking just before you go over the bars or hit that wall. maybe I should of spend a bit more and got the originals.

 

 

[M61A1]

That's typical of the sort hype you hear from those who have never used stuff, or those who want you to buy their stuff instead. The reality is somewhat different.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There are technical specifications and therefore objective reasons why things which look the same may be quite different. Bolts are a good example, as are tyres.

 

Cost is not an objective specification. It is possible that the cheaper thing is in fact better. An example of this is contact adhesive, where the cheap Chinese stuff is better as it contains no filler.

 

 

[djpacro]

Some years ago one of my friends told me that a Bunnings tyre was much better than the standard tyre for the Scott tailwheel on a Decathlon.

When I bought my second-hand 2007 model Decathlon I discovered that a previous owner had replaced the factory tailwheel steering springs with some from a local hardware store which he claimed to be "better" - original parts went back on. Another friend told me that "real" pilots don't have tailwheel steering springs, ignored him. Yet another told me to use the "better" springs from another aircraft type which uses a different tailwheel assembly - asked him about approval for the mod, no reply. No wonder my earlier 1979 model Decathlon had so many problems.

[jetjr]

Spent a lot of time learning about adhesives, and you can find changes like you mentioned but water resistance and max temperature handling can be miles apart.

 

Two identical products, one is water soluble, and handles max 40 deg C, other has 25 yr life, waterproof an handles 80 deg max, and yep 3 x the price.

 

Comes back to paying for the effort that goes into selecting the correct product for the job. Sometime the cheap one is OK for the application.

 

Also time goes into making sure suppliers dont substitute different products.

 

The issue is theres no longer a small difference in price but big one.

 

 

[Oscar]

A significant part of what you pay for with 'release' components, is the paper trail back through the entire manufacturing process to - in some cases - the batch of metal they were made from. That means, that if one of these fails anywhere, when the analysis of why it failed is done, the cause of the fault can be established and A/D's, S.B.s etc. can be issued to save someone else from suffering the same failure. You just might have had the 'next one' to fail, without that back-up.

 

As for 'there's nothing wrong with Bunnings parts' - yes, sometimes there isn't. But you might want to ask someone like Dave Dent about nylocs that wouldn't even take the recommended bolt torque on the main u/c legs, for instance. The problem I have found with quite a lot of Chinese-sourced stuff, is that while MOST of it is ok - and frequently, the basic design is good - there is such piss-poor quality control that something fails. I had a brand-new Peerless air compressor - trade-quality, 'Proudly made in Australia' - using, when I got onto the factory about the fact that after a few hours of running, it wouldn't even get to 20 psi.; - a Chinese pump (not noted in the Peerless advertising). After I replaced all the head bolts with PROPER Grade-8's - most had stripped at around 12 pds/ft, for 1/4" bolts!!! - and the valve petals with proper-spec. ones supplied by Peerless, it's run like clockwork for the last 7 years or so.

 

 

[kgwilson]

It all comes down to "You get what you pay for" . Sometimes you may get more than what you pay for but then that is usually just luck. I wouldn't put something in my aircraft in an important place in the hope that it will do the job because it looks the same as the proper quality controlled more expensive item.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Weirdly, most "Japanese" cars and bike are only assembled in Japan these days. After Fukushima, Japan had to wind back a lot of manufacturing due to loss of electricity capacity but the shift to using chinese manufacturing capacity has been going on for a while.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

bunning no longer the home of lower prices

 

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2016/05/11/bunnings-turns-screws-home-renovators/

 

 

[M61A1]

It's almost always cheaper to by industrial fasteners etc almost anywhere except Bunnings.

 

As for getting what you pay for, sometimes you pay a lot for poor quality but approved stuff.

 

 

[Ron5335]

Well, in this exiting time to be an Australian, with it's transforming economy, it's only a matter of time until some aspiring entrepreneur, seizes the moment and opens up a chain of shops throughout the nation specializing in the supply of quality aviation springs.

 

Until then, We will have to adapt, modify and compromise on our choices, and open ourselves to the ridicule of the na-sayers.

 

 

[BLA82]

Places like Bunnings - Even their tools are not the same quality as the apparently same tool sold in more expensive tool shops. I questioned a guy in an expensive tool shop as to why his exact same drill was twice the price as Bunnings and he enlightened me. Firstly it is not the same drill. It looks the same but if you look at the serial model numbers they have slight differences -eg same number but with an added letter or one digit different.

Many proper manufacturers ( tools, hardware, and consumables actually make their proper product and a " Bunnings" grade of product. Made with lower quality base ingredients and parts - in case of hardware with low grade steel without hardening or stabilising alloy and with no quality control on individual items as they go into the packaging. In the case of tools - made with plastic bushes instead of bearings etc.

I'd actually like to point out that you couldn't be further from the truth. I think your so called "serious tool shop" guy is just trying to justify selling his identical tools at a higher margin to cover his so called expert knowledge.

 

Apart from the budget brands (that for a home DIY guy work quite well) The Name brand tools are identical. Identical in every way. The difference in serial numbers is based on the country of purchase and I know for a fact there was a tool supplier in QLD who was fined for selling so called better tools at a large price but they were grey imports.

 

The main brands, Deawalt, Makita, Bosch in Bunnings are the same as anywhere else

 

 

[Oscar]

It's almost always cheaper to by industrial fasteners etc almost anywhere except Bunnings.As for getting what you pay for, sometimes you pay a lot for poor quality but approved stuff.

If you've ever bought proper AN hardware, you'll find it cheaper than Bunnings 'equivalents' - which aren't equivalent. Not as convenient, you need to plan your acquisitions and sometimes wait for some days to receive them from Aviall, or Skyshop, or whoever. I buy a lot of AN stuff from QED (Dent Aviation, in Camden), who are a small organisation for whom the stock-in-hand cost vs. their turnover would be hugely larger than for a mass-consumer store, and I get the EXACT bolt etc. that I need at a cost that very frequently astonishes me as being too cheap!.

 

Now, try to purchase from Bunnings ( or any mass-consumer store) a spec.-quality bolt that you can trust for a specific purpose that has a drilled head for lock-wire security and a drilled shank to use a castellated nut for use in a hot area - say, for your engine mounts... that has the exact grip length you need to maintain the mechanical integrity of the jointed components with the correct thread length for the nut you have to use. That fits properly into the holes. That has a finish coating of known composition.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I'd actually like to point out that you couldn't be further from the truth. I think your so called "serious tool shop" guy is just trying to justify selling his identical tools at a higher margin to cover his so called expert knowledge.Apart from the budget brands (that for a home DIY guy work quite well) The Name brand tools are identical. Identical in every way. The difference in serial numbers is based on the country of purchase and I know for a fact there was a tool supplier in QLD who was fined for selling so called better tools at a large price but they were grey imports.

 

The main brands, Deawalt, Makita, Bosch in Bunnings are the same as anywhere else

Well apart from the tool guy, apart from another pilot/L2/motor mechanic mate who told me the same story I just did a quick 5 minute Google and came up with 4 threads on forums ( admittedly 3 USA forums but they too stated that Dewalt produce a Home Depot ( basically a similar USA home hardware chain) version of drills and power tools with slight variations of their serial numbers confirming what I said in my post. Another forum that said that even toilet manufacturers produce a similar lower quality line for Home Depot.

 

Would be hard to believe that this practice happens only overseas and only with De Walt brand.

 

I admit I have not looked at any of these other brands myself but going on advice and evidence I am inclined to believe it at this stage.

 

 

[Oscar]

I'd actually like to point out that you couldn't be further from the truth. I think your so called "serious tool shop" guy is just trying to justify selling his identical tools at a higher margin to cover his so called expert knowledge.The main brands, Deawalt, Makita, Bosch in Bunnings are the same as anywhere else

Yep, that's probably true. But what you aren't mentioning, is that MOST of the stuff that Bunnings et. al are selling, are the 'second quality' product lines of those manufacturers. DeWalt is now a subsidiary of Black and Decker ( from memory) and has gone way down on its former reputation; the Makita and Bosch (and AEG) 'second-quality' lines are mostly crap. Both Makita and Bosch DO make good tools, though not the quality of Metabo, Fein, Festo etc. ( though Makita top-quality stuff is well up there in quality AND price).

 

 

[shafs64]

That's typical of the sort hype you hear from those who have never used stuff, or those who want you to buy their stuff instead. The reality is somewhat different.

I have seen Chinese made made disc rotors shatter, so fro that reason I tend to stay away from them.

 

 

[Oscar]

I can't remember, which F1 racer once dryly commented that 'total brake failure at the end of the main straight, concentrates the mind wonderfully'. I've had the 'Japanese stainless rotors in the wet' syndrome on several bikes: on a CBX100o ( the six), at a 'cracking pace' it was more than enough cardiac exercise to replace a week of sedentary life... a shattered rotor in the dry, is the stuff of serious and enduring nightmares.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

sorry mate , never seen a shattered rotor in 55 years of motorcycling outside accidents. "Shattering " steel rotors is absolute bull#### . Only cast iron discs will shatter . Steel will warp. "Stainless rotors in the wet " was a Jap syndrome , which was still far better than "Drum brakes in the wet" But then you drive within your capabilities? Same as sourcing bolts from Bunnings for any vehicular use. Madness. Anyone looking for AN stuff ans ending up at Bunnings is really silly. I have chinese disc rotors and they're great thanks

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Oscar is right about bolts. Never EVER substitute anything for an AN bolt in a high-stress application. I've told the story elsewhere about the Jabiru undercarriage which collapsed following a well-meaning substitution of bolts.

 

But I'm doubtful if there is a similar situation with springs. The spring in the report did or did not fail? If it didn't fail, which is my reading , then there is more to the story than we have been told.

 

 

[Oscar]

sorry mate , never seen a shattered rotor in 55 years of motorcycling outside accidents. "Shattering " steel rotors is absolute bull#### . Only cast iron discs will shatter . Steel will warp. "Stainless rotors in the wet " was a Jap syndrome , which was still far better than "Drum brakes in the wet" But then you drive within your capabilities? Same as sourcing bolts from Bunnings for any vehicular use. Madness. Anyone looking for AN stuff ans ending up at Bunnings is really silly. I have chinese disc rotors and they're great thanks

I agree, and I've never seen a shattered rotor either, but I've seen some seriously warped steel ones. I rode a GSX850 for about a year, that had hard spots in the rotors that would cause lock-up in the dry on even moderate braking; my right-hand became a proto-ABS modulator... mentally added about 20 metres plus at urban speeds to any braking point requiring hard braking so I'd have knocked off enough speed before tipping it in. My CB400/4 was the best fun you could have while not entirely horizontal, but the single s/s front rotor was just crap in the wet - the drum back was great fun in the wet, backing it in wildly - very, very predictable.

 

 

[BLA82]

(and AEG) 'second-quality' lines are mostly crap. Both Makita and Bosch DO make good tools, though not the quality of Metabo, Fein, Festo etc. ( though Makita top-quality stuff is well up there in quality AND price).

Firstly AEG has the best trade warranty in the country so if its crap im happy to have bought crap. AEG isnt a poor quality version of anything. I built boats for over ten years using tools in the worst environment without ever really servicing them. I spent thousands on festo originally and it was the worst money ever spent. On your forums you mention yes it does happen in the us as their consumer laws allow it. That is why people get caught and fined selling it in australia. Just because someome is a L2/Mechanic doesnt mean the know anymore or less then others. In this case he obviously doesn't. Scare mongering such as this quite amusing. On the topic though I agree that AN bolts shouldn't be subsidized for anything.

 

 

[Oscar]

I have AEG tools (variable-speed hammer drill, power-plane) with over 40 years service. I have Metabo, Fein, Festo and Makita tools with over 20 years service - and my first boat was built by me in 1965; my last, a 15-metre 1939 double-diagonal Sydney built Trawler complete reconstruction from the keel upwards finished in 2004 and sailed up from Lakes Entrance to Sydney. I know AEG prime-quality from AEG consumer quality. And if you have ruined festo equipment, then you don't know how to properly use equipment.

 

Just 'sayin'.

 

 

[BLA82]

And if you have ruined festo equipment, then you don't know how to properly use equipment.Just 'sayin'.

Big call mate, I will dig up the documents that were sent to me from the Australian Distributer of Festo admitting that they used non sealed bearings had faulty trigger mechanisms on my so called "quality" tools that I returned to them for a refund, which I received. Not that I would buy them only but it's funny how I have a Old $30 Bunnings grinder that was used on fibreglass for over 6 years and still works.

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I love the way on these forums you can get a blue going about anything.

 

 

[pylon500]

here you go. you might have to scroll thought it.https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/accident-incident-summaries-2015.pdf

Getting back a little closer to the original thread, I had a read through the 2015 reports, and noticed a lot of inconsistencies, mainly in the 'Outcome' section, which didn't always seem to have anything to do with the incident?

Did read that same report for the thread incident repeated on two different days?

 

And still think there is more to the presumed fault than we are hearing....

 

As an aside, I often buy Bunnings and SuperCheap tools for their price, and oddly enough they either work for a good period of time (thereby thinking I've got my moneys worth), or they fail within twelve months whereupon I get them replaced for free..

 

Ozito routers and 240v fluro lead-lights come to mind.