Saturday meeting

[frank marriott]

I hope everyone has submitted their vote (for those not attending). Plenty of debate on both sides but whether your opinion is YES or NO at least vote one way or the other as the outcome for our association is considerable.

 

The more that vote gives the outcome more credibility.

 

 

[storchy neil]

hey frank what the betting price on total number of votes to be counted less than 5000 so that will mean that 5000 don't give a xxxxxxxx neil

 

 

[frank marriott]

No idea Neil, but too late to complain about the result if it doesn't go the way they want - can only ask everyone to indicate their opinion.

 

I suspect you will be on the money, so no I'm not betting.

 

 

[Camel]

I believe this is more a case of true lack of understanding of the full content as I'm the first to admit I do not understand the full implications of either side ! I think for me it will be who do I trust !

 

 

[DonRamsay]

If you can't be in Canberra on Saturday, you can give your open proxy to somebody you trust that you know has worked their way through the voluminous, complex and to the average pilot/maintainer, boring Acts of Parliament and constitutions and formed a considered view. That is a responsible exercise of your democratic right and responsibility to cast a vote.

 

However, giving your proxy to somebody who has not done the work and has just got a "gut feeling", is not, to my way of thinking, a responsible use of your vote.

 

 

[Admin]

Don, please stop leading members up the garden path. A member can give their proxy to another member for either a Yes or No vote. It doesn't matter what their proxy member votes for, i.e. I can vote NO and give my proxy to someone who is voting Yes, my vote is still counted as a NO and their vote is still counted as a Yes.

 

However, giving your proxy to somebody who has not done the work and has just got a "gut feeling", is not, to my way of thinking, a responsible use of your vote.

Is a load of rubbish and pure one sided scare tactics that belittles RAAus members inferring they can't think for themselves

 

 

[Nightmare]

Hehehe, I'm a new pilot and don't know anyone I can proxy through.... ah well, I guess I won't be voting, I might go flying instead....

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hehehe, I'm a new pilot and don't know anyone I can proxy through.... ah well, I guess I won't be voting, I might go flying instead....

You can, & should, appoint the chairman to be your proxy using this form https://www.vision6.com.au/ch/48209/2w9xk/2133309/6c12094ct.html

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hehehe, I'm a new pilot and don't know anyone I can proxy through.... ah well, I guess I won't be voting, I might go flying instead....

You can print off the proxy form, fill it in, scan it and email it to RAA. You can nominate the chairman as your proxy and indicate how you want them to vote. Takes 5 minutes.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Normally you can either direct your proxy to vote one way or the other, or you can direct your proxy to vote as the proxy feels fit at the meeting.

 

 

[gandalph]

The editorialising is beginning to make the Murdoch press seem reasonable and unbiased

 

 

[storchy neil]

Hehehe, I'm a new pilot and don't know anyone I can proxy through.... ah well, I guess I won't be voting, I might go flying instead

 

nightmare I am not having a go at you personal as I think that is a wined up but when we as an organization lose every thing that we have fought for through apathy and not been diligent in the way that the organization should be run

 

when you lose an what you had through idiots abuseing their power and asumeing they know whats best your vote may have let you continue flying neil

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Don, please stop leading members up the garden path. A member can give their proxy to another member for either a Yes or No vote. It doesn't matter what their proxy member votes for, i.e. I can vote NO and give my proxy to someone who is voting Yes, my vote is still counted as a NO and their vote is still counted as a Yes.

Ian,

Good to see you back on deck and trust you had an enjoyable weekend pampering mothers.

 

I have no argument with what you can do with your proxy. I wasn't disputing that and I'm not clear how you got to that understanding. Possibly it has to do with a directed proxy versus an open one?

 

I could have made that clearer. I was urging members to use their proxy vote responsibly by making sure that if they give an open proxy to somebody who has done the research and formed a considered view then that is a good thing to do. To give your open proxy to somebody who has not canvassed the issues thoroughly would be, in my personal view, irresponsible.

 

Is a load of rubbish and pure one sided scare tactics

As you know, I post on here as an individual, not as a Board Member and have made it crystal clear what I think is best for the future of RAAus. All the contrary arguments I have seen carry no weight for me, personally, especially when measured against the benefits of the reforms. And anyone who was scared by my post needs to see a shrink and/or take a teaspoon of cement and harden up - especially if they want to run the gauntlet here.

 

. . . that belittles RAAus members inferring they can't think for themselves

On the contrary, I was asking members to use their proxy wisely and responsibly and to not just give it away to the first person who asks for it.

Don

 

 

[kasper]

Ian,Good to see you back on deck and trust you had an enjoyable weekend pampering mothers.

 

I have no argument with what you can do with your proxy. I wasn't disputing that and I'm not clear how you got to that understanding. Possibly it has to do with a directed proxy versus an open one?

 

I could have made that clearer. I was urging members to use their proxy vote responsibly by making sure that if they give an open proxy to somebody who has done the research and formed a considered view then that is a good thing to do. To give your open proxy to somebody who has not canvassed the issues thoroughly would be, in my personal view, irresponsible.

 

As you know, I post on here as an individual, not as a Board Member and have made it crystal clear what I think is best for the future of RAAus. All the contrary arguments I have seen carry no weight for me, personally, especially when measured against the benefits of the reforms. And anyone who was scared by my post needs to see a shrink and/or take a teaspoon of cement and harden up - especially if they want to run the gauntlet here.

 

On the contrary, I was asking members to use their proxy wisely and responsibly and to not just give it away to the first person who asks for it.

 

Don

Given the proxy forms provided for members from the RAAus for this vote are ALL drafted as specific directions its reasonable to not think of open proxies

https://www.raa.asn.au/our-organisation/our-constitution/draft-constitution/

 

 

[storchy neil]

questions ?

 

can you land a GA aircraft any where that is not an ALA ?

 

can you land a raa registered aircraft any where as long as it safe to do so ? neil

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Given the proxy forms provided for members from the RAAus for this vote are ALL drafted as specific directions its reasonable to not think of open proxieshttps://www.raa.asn.au/our-organisation/our-constitution/draft-constitution/

To leave it up to your proxy to choose all you have to do is leave the form without ticks in either box. I agree a third box would have made this clearer.

Don

 

 

[tillmanr]

On the proxy form there is no indication as to a tick or a cross being required. Can you clarify which is needed or is mandatory. Will the vote be considered for the blank box if I use a cross?

 

 

[Geoff13]

If you can't be in Canberra on Saturday, you can give your open proxy to somebody you trust that you know has worked their way through the voluminous, complex and to the average pilot/maintainer, boring Acts of Parliament and constitutions and formed a considered view. That is a responsible exercise of your democratic right and responsibility to cast a vote.However, giving your proxy to somebody who has not done the work and has just got a "gut feeling", is not, to my way of thinking, a responsible use of your vote.

I must admit that when I read this I went scrambling for the books to see how the proxies were meant to work. It did leave me in some doubt but a few minutes in the books soon cleared it up.

 

The editorialising is beginning to make the Murdoch press seem reasonable and unbiased

I didn't think this was funny even though it did get a couple of funnies.

 

 

[turboplanner]

questions ?can you land a GA aircraft any where that is not an ALA ?

can you land a raa registered aircraft any where as long as it safe to do so ? neil

An ALA is defined as: Aircraft Landing Area for the purpose of CAR92 (1)(d)

 

Here's CAR 92

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

My interpretation of those regs is that you can land in a field suitable for the purpose, but if it all goes tits up CASA might impose a hefty fine.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Hehehe, I'm a new pilot and don't know anyone I can proxy through.... ah well, I guess I won't be voting, I might go flying insteadnightmare I am not having a go at you personal as I think that is a wined up but when we as an organization lose every thing that we have fought for through apathy and not been diligent in the way that the organization should be run

when you lose an what you had through idiots abuseing their power and asumeing they know whats best your vote may have let you continue flying neil

So what are you/we losing, Neil? Tony

[DonRamsay]

On the proxy form there is no indication as to a tick or a cross being required. Can you clarify which is needed or is mandatory. Will the vote be considered for the blank box if I use a cross?

All that is required is to clearly indicate your preference which is the same for the rules of the Australian Electoral Commission. Personally, I'd "tick" but I've seen crosses and other ways of indicating your preference.

If you are in favour, make sure you email it in to [email protected] . . .

 

 

[gandalph]

I didn't think this was funny even though it did get a couple of funnies.

I didn't think it was funny either Geoff, that's what prompted the post.

 

 

[turboplanner]

My interpretation of those refs is that you can land in a field suitable for the purpose, but if it all goes tits up CASA might impose a hefty fine.

And you will have no defence to negligence if you injure someone because the field was shorter, bumpier than you thought etc.

In my training what happened was that the CFI laid down his requirements which meant you had to visit the paddock, measure it and be able to drive a car along the strip at 100 km/hr etc., check and measure the obstacles.

 

What you finish up with is a landing area with the normal safety margins. So is something does go wrong (other than with the landing area itself, you have that evidence to defend yourself against any accusation that the landing area was unsafe.

 

Of course that rules out short cuts like landing on a beach on a whim, dropping in to an airfield without phoning ahead to check and so on.

 

 

[Aldo]

Pretty easy really, if you stuff it up the oil light came on (precautionary), if you don't stuff it up keep using it until the oil light comes on!!

 

Probably now comes under the thread drift rules

 

Aldo