The XPB Stage 1 underway.

Nobody · December 28, 2016

As a thought... could you use a CA glue (superglue) to fix the gussets to the frame members for transport? The gussets could have undersized holes drilled (or laser cut or punched) in them and all the builder would need to do it is match drill to the frame member underneath and then ream out to the final size, no debuting needed. Because the glue is only holding the frame together for transport there would be less need for a high level of quality control, the loads in service would be transferred through the rivets. The frames could be build on a jig in the factory to ensure accurate alignment and placement of the members.

kasper · December 28, 2016

As a thought... could you use a CA glue (superglue) to fix the gussets to the frame members for transport? The gussets could have undersized holes drilled (or laser cut or punched) in them and all the builder would need to do it is match drill to the frame member underneath and then ream out to the final size, no debuting needed. Because the glue is only holding the frame together for transport there would be less need for a high level of quality control, the loads in service would be transferred through the rivets. The frames could be build on a jig in the factory to ensure accurate alignment and placement of the members.

And the more you build on the factory floor and assemble the higher the cost.

If Bex is targeting a very low cost kit the builder really is going to have to do most of the assembly.

Match drilled is good.

Temporary assembly or full Assembly in the factory of substantial components is not going to work.

bexrbetter · December 28, 2016

Good ideas are always welcome.

A lot of thought goes into each step how one can achieve this build with;

a/ No previous knowledge.

b/ A drill, hacksaw and riveter.

c/ Not much space.

Please note this is a jigless, self aligning build, built on any reasonable flat'ish workbench or floor if you still got young limbs!

Example; You see that center fixture plate above, flat sides "A" are an alignment tool, as are the edges of the holes "B", it works a treat. Sit the plates on top of the tubes, use these aligning aids and drill through the pre-lasered holes. Clean and rivet.

It really is that easy.

The thicker support plates have the correct sized hole, while the thinner aluminium sheets have pilot holes only, or else the drill wanders and ovals a full sized hole.

.

bexrbetter · December 28, 2016

Here is another example used,

A pre-laser holed and folded "U" channel, or 90 degree fold otherwise, is supplied and you merely pop your tubes into the 90 degree corners accordingly, add your cross braces, drill, clean and rivet.

AllanBendigo · December 28, 2016

Hi Bex

Something you might want to look into is that the kit must meet the FAA's 51% rule if you wish to sell the kits in the USA and other places

FWF, instruments paint etc don't count I believe

Cheers

Nobody · December 28, 2016

Temporary assembly or full Assembly in the factory of substantial components is not going to work.

My glue suggestion was as an alternative to welding where by definition the frame needed to be factory assembled at least in part.

Getting the balance right between what is done by the builder and what is done by the kit maker is a big part of a successful kit. By trialing assemblies and practising on real parts Bex is likely to get the balance right.

Birdseye · December 28, 2016

Hi BexSomething you might want to look into is that the kit must meet the FAA's 51% rule if you wish to sell the kits in the USA and other places
FWF, instruments paint etc don't count I believe

Cheers

See the linked doc, Appendix 8 to calculate.

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/how-to-build-an-airplane/selection-articles/~/media/68622b08072841d6b76c8cc7c3d51be0.ashx

bexrbetter · December 29, 2016

the kit must meet the FAA's 51% rule if you wish to sell the kits in the USA

Thanks Allan, indeed everything is aimed at exactly that, appreciate your comment.

There is certainly confusion about what the 51% rule means but believe I have a handle on it and fitting the bill accordingly so that the builder will be proficient and capable on 50%+ of the build processes in order to obtain his Repairman's Certificate for that craft.

fly_tornado · December 29, 2016

The kit has to be audited by the FAA as well to be registerable as EAB, which involves the FAA visiting your factory

bexrbetter · December 29, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dMWuECAhc

Nobody · December 30, 2016

The kit has to be audited by the FAA as well to be registerable as EAB, which involves the FAA visiting your factory

No it doesn't.

Tucano · December 30, 2016

The Tucano is currently undergoing the FAA 51% approval to be listed as an approved kit. Flying Legend has set up an office/warehouse in Texas and the first part of the process was to provide a complete kit unassembled which is inspected, once an OK is received the quick build kit is next and checked off against the FAA approved checklist which is the same as the AC in Australia.

As I understand it its a detailed and structured process but well worth a manufacturer obtaining as it is recognized worldwide.

Why do this - to have your kit can be delivered in the highest state of assembly just look a a RV7 quick build and other new products that a placing their hopes in that process, the market is geared to quick build in the USA and most likely the rest of the world.

bexrbetter · December 30, 2016

The Tucano is currently undergoing the FAA 51% approval to be listed as an approved kit.just look a a RV7 quick build and other new products that a placing their hopes in that process,

Yes worthy of note it is an option, a valuable one but not a requirement.

Yup you can build your RV7 in as little as 3 years rather than 5 - not quite my idea of "quick build".

Good luck with yours, the part fuse looked good at Narromine last year. One of the best looking craft out there.

Tucano · December 30, 2016

Thanks for the comment - hope to paint by mid year - long way to go from there

Building makes you wonder over the 'Build and Fly in two weeks" adds - must be me.

bexrbetter · December 30, 2016

Well the rear sides are just about done and the front corners are getting close.

Glad I decided to split them, the smaller sizes are damn convenient on the work bench.

bexrbetter · January 3, 2017

Well did some optimising over the weekend and did some weight checks, appears I've knocked 6 kgs out of, I was expecting a couple so has come as a pleasant surprise.

Putting it all together again now.

Marty_d · January 3, 2017

My 4 year old daughter asks "Why don't the people have any bodies?"

I was going to ask why they look p*ssed off, maybe it's because of that!

Guernsey · January 4, 2017

My 4 year old daughter asks "Why don't the people have any bodies?"The aircraft is designed for No bodies.

Alan.

Marty_d · January 4, 2017

That's not very nice Alan... just because it's a budget aircraft, doesn't make the owner a nobody...

Marty_d · January 4, 2017

Well did some optimising over the weekend and did some weight checks, appears I've knocked 6 kgs out of, I was expecting a couple so has come as a pleasant surprise.Putting it all together again now.

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Bex with the fuselage frames changing from the curvy ones you had before, to a straight line from rear cabin to tailpost, does that mean your turtledeck will now be a single half cone rather than the double-angle one you had previously?

bexrbetter · January 4, 2017

Bex with the fuselage frames changing from the curvy ones you had before,

Not a straight line, still curvy.

That's not very nice Alan......

Obviously a joke, no prob here.

bexrbetter · January 5, 2017

So finished these sides this morning, and started screwing, ok riveting, the rear half together.

This involved first joining the tail, then merely bringing the halves together to the roll cage, clamp, drill through the lasered pilot holes, clean and rivet. All self aligning and self jigging without measuring anything.

I am extremely pleased with the ease and speed they go together, not to mention the result.

One of the good things is that now the entire rear half, and entire front halves of the fuse will be able to be built independent of each other and bought together at a later stage as required.

There are homebuilders who lack building or bench space, and this will be ideal for them.

Marty, as there are no rear half central laterals installed yet, that's why there's little "curvy" at the moment. Those laterals will push it out further in the middle.