The XPB Stage 1 underway.

[turboplanner]

Turboplanner what do you mean 'negative to the virus'?

Sorry, just my wording - not positive to the virus. At this stage they are saying you can catch it get over it and catch it again etc.

[onetrack]

It's not that clear-cut, that you can catch the COVID-19 virus again. A medical article I read stated that you get immunity from the virus once you've had it - but the virus rapidly mutates in a stealthy and cunning manner, and it's possible that people they thought had caught the virus twice, were infected with a new, mutated variety.

 

In addition, they stated that it's possible that some people in China and Japan were released as cured (as measured by normal standards) - but they were still infected at a low level, and not fully cured, and then tested positive again to COVID-19.

[turboplanner]

Thanks for this, Wayne. By far the clearest resource on this pandemic.

It got my attention. Even though I haven't been a smoker, I have the early stages of emphysema.

This virus could kill me.

 

If only our own government could communicate so clearly.

It did; it said the best case scenario was 50,000 dead, the worst case was 150,000 and the people most likely to die would be people over 80 and people with respiratory or lowered immune system, such as people who have had chemotheraphy.

 

You can stay out of that group by totally isolating; the early lock down of our Nursing Homes will probably save thousands of lives.

 

I just found out that two people in Mount Gambier have tested positive and the virus is likely to be carried to these towns by people coming home from the Cities, and the tourists that are still out there with caravans.

[Old Koreelah]

It did...

Actually Turbs, it didn't.

I was impressed with the clarity and explanation of the British production as compared to the unimpressive messages coming from our own government at the time.

[kgwilson]

When there is no unanimity between States and territories confusion reigns.

[turboplanner]

Actually Turbs, it didn't.

I was impressed with the clarity and explanation of the British production as compared to the unimpressive messages coming from our own government at the time.

Well I'm sorry for you because you are at risk, but the Australian Government gave you the warning you needed; but how about this from the Victorian Premier this morning announcing Victoria's Stage 2 actions - IF YOU CAN STAY HOME YOU MUST STAY HOME!

My counsin and his wife, who is a nurse at the local hospital came up with a system in the case that one of them tests positive. They've separated into two bedrooms, each with its own en-suite. If one of them gets sick the door will be shut and food will be put on a table/chair by the other. The other person will pick up the dishes wearing gloves and they will be washed and the chair washed down with disinfectant. That sounds a good policy for two people.

Almost all nursing homes, which contain the over 80s groups have been locked down and totally isolated for several weeks.

The above policy would be good to go to now for anyone in the other groups mentioned by the Government. No hospital vs hospital > oxygen > non-available ventilator would seem a no brainer to me.

[Methusala]

Border Force allowed 2,700 people from a cruise ship disperse across our most populous city, having performed no scrutiny, with the vague instruction to "self isolate". These people should have been conveyed to a secure lodging (no shortage of large hotels nearby) and TESTED for god's sake. Who knows how many secondary (and tertiary...and quaternary) infections that "oversight" has caused. This level of bufoonary by those charged with monitoring the bio-security of the place should be treated as a serious crime!

[turboplanner]

When there is no unanimity between States and territories confusion reigns.

That's true and during the 1918 Spanish Flu episode Australia's medical professionals couldn't agree on what to do, the Commonwealth had only been in established 17 years before (the equivalent of 2003 vs today). The States had retained sovereign control, so effectively were six countries (and still are) and they disagreed with the Commonwealth and with each other, and a lot more people died than would have with a common srategy.

There's a story about it floating around at the moment. A guy wrote a book on it, and when this crisis was starting, managed to get it to the Prime Minister early. It's been suggested that because of the Commonwealth's inability to step straight into the States in the bushfire crisis that the PM formed this National Cabinet with the States, and also Territories. What is has done is show us we can make national regulations fast by the National Cabinet agreeing on an action, and the States then legislating for that action. Hopefully this National Cabinet will become a fixture to be oulled out from time to time. Prior to this, the only means of National conformity of State Regulations occurred in the transport industry when interstate transport companies pleaded for common axle weights and dimensions around Australia. The concept adopted was to form a National entity at arms length from government (like CASA) which would come up with a new regulation, that regulation would be enacted in Queensland and the Queensland Act would be mirrored without debate in the other States and the Territories. Instead of the national body remaining a small professional group, it has expanded itself to be about the same size as Queensland Transport and has been a disaster. Hopefully the success of this National Cabinet will allow it to be shut down.

 

The so-called onfusion blown up by the media about schools turned out to be Victoria moving the holidays forward by 4 days to give the education time to develop Online learning, and NSW struggling to address the situation where 30% of the students had been taken out by parents. That's been explained in Victoria and NSW. Last night the Prime Minister went over the latest Cabinet agreement which was to keep schools open so people like emergency workers could keep their children in school, and to prevent all school children losing almost a year's lessons, so the plan is for NSW and Victoria to both stay open, following the advice of the Chief Medical Officer, but if or when Stage 3 comes in they will probably go straight for online learning becaise virtually everyone will be at home.

 

There will be some differences by State; the Cabinet last night discussed closing markets down, and because of the different definitions in different States, and the different market make ups (where some are not compressed with large groups attending) the States will be making their own decisions.

[turboplanner]

Border Force allowed 2,700 people from a cruise ship disperse across our most populous city, having performed no scrutiny, with the vague instruction to "self isolate". These people should have been conveyed to a secure lodging (no shortage of large hotels nearby) and TESTED for god's sake. Who knows how many secondary (and tertiary...and quaternary) infections that "oversight" has caused. This level of bufoonary by those charged with monitoring the bio-security of the place should be treated as a serious crime!

There was one of a similar size which did the same in Melbourne - slipped in and quickly dumped all passengers.

And there was one which came into Portland and offloaded.

There may well be consequences down the track.

[kgwilson]

The 211 new infections in NSW are linked to the Ruby Princess cruise ship. 4 Cruise ships docked in Sydney in the last week & all had positive cases.

 

On March 18 Health Minister Greg Hunt issued an emergency biosecurity order preventing any cruise vessels from docking in Australia for the next month.

 

The Australian Border Force Commissioner has said 13 passenger cruise ships were still at sea at the time the order came into force.

Of those 13, the Voyager of the Seas and the Ovation of the Seas docked on March 18, the Ruby Princess docked on March 19, and the Celebrity Solstice docked on March 20.

 

So an order is issued, ships dock after the order, some passengers aboard all ships have Covid-19 so they let them all off to just merge into the community where they have travelled by air, rail, buses & cars back to their own communities to continue the spread. Even passengers were surprised they were allowed to do this but our smart authorities said it was OK. Just pathetic and potentially deadly. If we continue with such poor management the best case scenario of 50,000 deaths is going to be way off the mark.

[Methusala]

"Don't say sorry..."

On the way into Sydney last week, a short film from Border Force entitled,"Don't say sorry..." was shown to us. Its message was, you know what is the correct thing to do, so, no excuses.

All I seem to hear from our federals is (shrug, smirk) mistakes are going to happen but, ya know, we're all human so give us a break! Centrelink has been operating for years on the principle that no excuse will be tolerated...just pay up.

When do these jerks ever take responsibility for anything. Close the schools now, stop treating a haircut as some kind of "essential service". We intend to isolate ourselves for the duration - when we need food, we will go singly, with PPE, to the closest food store and pay with card. Not getting or passing on infection is the only thing that will buy time. Nothing else matters.

[turboplanner]

It's not that clear-cut, that you can catch the COVID-19 virus again. A medical article I read stated that you get immunity from the virus once you've had it - but the virus rapidly mutates in a stealthy and cunning manner, and it's possible that people they thought had caught the virus twice, were infected with a new, mutated variety.

 

In addition, they stated that it's possible that some people in China and Japan were released as cured (as measured by normal standards) - but they were still infected at a low level, and not fully cured, and then tested positive again to COVID-19.

Latest news this morning: "Richard Wilkins is shocked that he has tested positive for a third time"

[turboplanner]

It's been a busy morning:

 

The RAAF has been mobilised to move freight around.

 

Surgeries have now been abandoned in Victoria.

 

The Covid-19 Commission has been established with ex Forstescue Minerals Executive Nev Power in charge

This is tasked with solving problens.

[onetrack]

On the basis of that appointment, I guess the iron ore mining industry will now be declared an essential industry!

 

BIL does escorts for wide loads, a lot of mining equipment, and also a lot of wind turbine equipment.

But they've shut a big part of his industry down, because the trucks and escorts travel in convoy, and need accommodation and food on the road, often in country and remote regions, and the supply of either cannot be guaranteed now.

It's a real quandary, because now is the time to move all that oversize stuff around, with little traffic and cheap fuel!

[turboplanner]

On the basis of that appointment, I guess the iron ore mining industry will now be declared an essential industry!

 

BIL does escorts for wide loads, a lot of mining equipment, and also a lot of wind turbine equipment.

But they've shut a big part of his industry down, because the trucks and escorts travel in convoy, and need accommodation and food on the road, often in country and remote regions, and the supply of either cannot be guaranteed now.

It's a real quandary, because now is the time to move all that oversize stuff around, with little traffic and cheap fuel!

Same goes for the major projects that have been disrupting our city roads, but I suspect it's for the basics when Stage 3 comes in and everyone is isolated.

[Old Koreelah]

Well I'm sorry for you because you are at risk, but the Australian Government gave you the warning you needed...

Once again you totally misunderstand me.

I repeat: this little British video explained the virus better than anything produced by our government.

Please either prove me wrong or stop; your condescending attitude is quite offensive.

[turboplanner]

Once again you totally misunderstand me.

I repeat: this little British video explained the virus better than anything produced by our government.

Please either prove me wrong or stop; your condescending attitude is quite offensive.

OK, please disregard everything I said.

[turboplanner]

Looks like it's started in Melbourne; Minister for Health, Jenny Mikakos has announced:

466 Cases, up 55 from yesterday.

12 admitted to Victorian Hospitals, 2 on life support, 1 aged 30 the other 60 . JM:"This is not an elderly person's disease"

[pmccarthy]

The world will hit its carbon reduction targets years ahead of schedule.

[Methusala]

Much of the govt's focus is aimed at rescuing the economy. "The economy" in this context relates to the financial economy. That's why the RB has begun buying govt bonds. This financialised economy is company structures and their capital base. Eg. the govt is pouring $715m into "saving the airlines" while Joyce sacks 20,000 people with no intention of supporting these people's lost income. He is reported as saying that Qantas' reserves of capital will remain untouched. The RB's reductions in interest rates have largely benefited investors by reducing the interest burden on company borrowings. Money can be suppliwed to consumers who will use it to buy essential goods and services benefitting the supply chain. Why can't the government; a)Provide cash directly into personal bank accs, and b) Provide staples of food via modern soup kitchen style?

Again, too much corporate welfare and the population being left to catch-up.

[onetrack]

The Irish leprechauns approach is the standard corporate ethics approach. Fxxx the employees - the company, the CEO and executives have to be protected first, then the shareholders, then lastly, the company employees and customers.

The loyalty of employees to the company, some of whom have probably given 30 or more years of their lives to the organisation, has been seriously misplaced.

As to the customers who have expended thousands on flight tickets and got nothing in return, except a credit for a future flight - good luck with that, many of those flight credits will be worth less than used toilet paper in 6 mths time, because the airline they bought them from, no longer exists - or a "new corporate structure" has commenced business, with no intention of honouring any flight credits, from any previous corporate structure.

Edited March 25, 2020 by onetrack

[turboplanner]

Much of the govt's focus is aimed at rescuing the economy. "The economy" in this context relates to the financial economy. That's why the RB has begun buying govt bonds. This financialised economy is company structures and their capital base. Eg. the govt is pouring $715m into "saving the airlines" while Joyce sacks 20,000 people with no intention of supporting these people's lost income. He is reported as saying that Qantas' reserves of capital will remain untouched. The RB's reductions in interest rates have largely benefited investors by reducing the interest burden on company borrowings. Money can be suppliwed to consumers who will use it to buy essential goods and services benefitting the supply chain. Why can't the government; a)Provide cash directly into personal bank accs, and b) Provide staples of food via modern soup kitchen style?

Again, too much corporate welfare and the population being left to catch-up.

I haven't been following the financial side so closely but from memory the Commonwealth Government is paying $1,000 when your tax return is processed, then two lots of $750.00 cash then a percentage of your wages when you are laid off. Then there are packages for companies to keep employees on, then packages for small business to keep them afloat. Then the Sates Governments are looking at things like Stamp Duty, waiving Registrations etc. There are more things happening every day, so you need to go to the Commonewealth, State/Territory website to see the lists, and make claims.

[ClintonB]

Border Force allowed 2,700 people from a cruise ship disperse across our most populous city, having performed no scrutiny, with the vague instruction to "self isolate". These people should have been conveyed to a secure lodging (no shortage of large hotels nearby) and TESTED for god's sake. Who knows how many secondary (and tertiary...and quaternary) infections that "oversight" has caused. This level of bufoonary by those charged with monitoring the bio-security of the place should be treated as a serious crime!

Already hit the country in Tamworth, on the news last night-“we weren’t stopped only given a piece of paper with advice on isolation”. So what did they do, hop on several trains to Tuggerah and drive home. How many people will have contact infections now. READ THE PAPER AND FOLLOW IT. grown ups shouldn’t have to have their hands held over this. These people raced onto a cruise boat 2 weeks before, so not to miss out on a trip that insurance wouldn’t cover. We were already into this problem at that stage and advised to cancel unnecessary travel.

Now it is just adding to a bigger community problem.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Gosh onetrack, thet's exactly what I said to my mother when she bought a pre-paid funeral about 20 years ago. I said that when the time comes, the old company would have been sold and the pre-paid would be worth nothing.

In the event, I was wrong and the deal was honoured. Maybe the funeral business attracted proper scrutiny, or maybe I was too suspicious.

[apm]

Latest news this morning: "Richard Wilkins is shocked that he has tested positive for a third time"

I actually had use google to see who you talking about. Hmmmm....... maybe someone in the lab just wants to keep him quiet.