Refuelling from Jerrycans - Metal or Plastic?

[Roscoe]

Is a Metal Jerrycan safer than a Plastic one for refuelling?

 

Also, i see the Auto Supply shops sell a Syphon with an "anti static" plastic hose that they claim reduces the possibility of static electricity and is a safer option than using a funnel.

 

And what about "grounding" when refuelling from a Jerrycan on a high wing aircraft using the Syphon method.

 

Comments appreciated, thanks.

 

 

[Garfly]

There are some interesting earlier threads on here about this topic and Flight Safety Australia had this article in it last year:

 

 

http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2015/09/stopping-the-spark/

 

 

[mnewbery]

Is Pearo still calling BS on this or will he recant his statements about static charge and petrol as noted in the link in post #2 above?

 

Refer:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/bak-questions-thread.148145/page-2#post-557712

 

 

[Russ]

Long time back I witnessed a " filling " fire, hence forth I connect jerrycan to aircraft via cable. ( 2 alligator clips on length of auto wire )

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My Pa-28 has the mogas stc which means dual electric pumps and no primer pump. I understand that this is because of the higher risk of vapour lock. I refuel from plastic jerry cans sometimes. I intend buying a Tanami pump so the jerry can can sit on the ground and I can still use my Mr Funnel, which I think is essential as it has caught some really nasty stuff in Mogas.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I filter through a Mister Funnel into a clean Jerry Can. I then pour direct to the tank. The can and the tank are plastic. Am I correct in thinking that it would be pointless to try and earth the container to the aircraft. I see no possible way to do it. ????

 

 

[dsam]

.....I refuel from plastic jerry cans sometimes. I intend buying a Tanami pump so the jerry can can sit on the ground and I can still use my Mr Funnel, which I think is essential as it has caught some really nasty stuff in Mogas.

Just for your info, I bought & tried the Tanami pump, and found it verrrry slow to fill my high wing tanks. Much quicker to pour directly from the jerry can. Perhaps a low wing might be quicker?

I also have a Mr. Funnel, but prefer to use it when filling the jerry can, not the aircraft. Much easier to wrangle the combination of nozzle & filter that way.

 

Dave

 

 

[OZJohn]

There are two types of Mr Funnel. Normal type and carbon injected C type. C type deals better with static electricity by conducting, not so much chance of spark jumping.

 

98 Mogas stored in a plastic jerry can will turn into 91 mogas in about two weeks. Get a hydrometer and test it - you will be surprised.

 

John.

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

There are two types of Mr Funnel. Normal type and carbon injected C type. C type deals better with static electricity by conducting, not so much chance of spark jumping.98 Mogas stored in a plastic jerry can will turn into 91 mogas in about two weeks. Get a hydrometer and test it - you will be surprised.

John.

Interesting, I wasn't aware that you can tell the octain of fuels just by measuring the specific gravity. Can someone please expand on this

 

 

[OZJohn]

Check the Material Safety Data Sheet from the oil company's.

 

The SG of avgas 100ll is 0.72. SG of mogas 98 is 0.76. Jet A1 SG is 0.8. All corrected to 15 degrees C.

 

John.

 

 

[Soleair]

The article from the link was interesting, but didn't have much depth.

 

OK, so plastic jerrycans (& presumably fuel tanks) build up a static charge. But how do you earth the aircraft's polythene fuel tank - or the plane - when the structure is wood & fabric?

 

Is there any benefit in running a cable from the onboard plastic fuel tank to the engine earth? Without an earthing cable as found at avgas pumps, how do you earth the aircraft before refuelling from a (metal) jerrycan? Is it necessary? I don't seem to hear of any fires resulting from refuelling, yet this practice must be an almost daily occurrence across the country.

 

 

[mkennard]

Be careful of brand new plastic since I had a lot of debris from the cans on first fill

 

 

[Downunder]

98 Mogas stored in a plastic jerry can will turn into 91 mogas in about two weeks. Get a hydrometer and test it - you will be surprised. John.

I can understand octane degredation in vented aircraft tanks by the evaporation but your saying this happens in SEALED jerry cans?

 

 

[Garfly]

Here (attached) is an article on refuelling with more detail and some good tips.

 

(Put out by the Murray Bridge Gliding Club ;-)

 

And more useful info on this site e.g:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/refueling-high-wing-planes.4374/#post-44943

 

STATIC-ELECTRICITY.pdf

 

STATIC-ELECTRICITY.pdf

 

STATIC-ELECTRICITY.pdf

[mnewbery]

With regard to post #11 above, the plastic fuel tank will demonstrably discharge into the ground albeit slowly as soon as it comes into contact with said ground (dirt, grass, concrete etc). Even composite aircraft have metal engines, so earthing there on the exhaust for example will earth the entire aircraft in a minute or so for reasons I won't go into here.

 

Earthing the aircraft then periodically placing a plastic Jerry can on the ground will reduce (not eliminate) static build up, as will decanting the fuel more slowly. This last point is described in the link in post #2. A dry, windy day will build up static on the plastic (and your nice clean car and you).

 

Would I earth a plastic Jerry can with a wire while decanting it? CAO 20.9 has the answer. Not necessarily a wire, I might make sure it's me or even my ladder who has the bonded earth. Sensing that static had built up is the last line of defence. Ignore that at your peril.

 

 

[OZJohn]

Butane is used to raise the octane of mogas. It is all downhill from the refinery hence the warnings re stale fuel.

 

Butane escapes the plastic jerry cans by osmosis.

 

 

[Garfly]

What about the use of Octane booster fluid used in, say, Rotax 912 engines. I've seen conflicting expert information on this on the web. My question is, if the choice came down to operating with possibly octane depleted fuel or with using some of those additives that you can buy in servos, what would be worse?

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Try this BP document about Mogas - its a bit surprising re the octane level over time - it actually increases.

 

The problem is with the loss of light components, and BP recommends adding fresh fuel to petrol more than a week old, to refresh these lost light components.

 

http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/petrol-life-vehicle-tanks.pdf

 

In summary it says:

 

Loss of light components – impact on octane

 

The light components in petrol are lost first as the petrol sits in the fuel tanks. These

 

components provide valuable octane benefits under high revving conditions such as

 

cold start acceleration and the loss of these components can result in detonation and

 

pre ignition at high speed resulting in piston damage.

 

The remaining components that have not evaporated are high octane and octane can

 

actually increase with time but this octane is not available for high revving

 

conditions.

 

 

[Downunder]

What about the use of Octane booster fluid used in, say, Rotax 912 engines. I've seen conflicting expert information on this on the web. My question is, if the choice came down to operating with possibly octane depleted fuel or with using some of those additives that you can buy in servos, what would be worse?

Personally, if no other options were available, I would use octane booster in 91 rather than run straight 91, until I could get 95/98 or avgas. (100HP engine obviously)

 

I see this as the lesser of two evils....

 

 

[rhtrudder]

Just for your info, I bought & tried the Tanami pump, and found it verrrry slow to fill my high wing tanks. Much quicker to pour directly from the jerry can. Perhaps a low wing might be quicker?I also have a Mr. Funnel, but prefer to use it when filling the jerry can, not the aircraft. Much easier to wrangle the combination of nozzle & filter that way.

Dave

We are using tuff jugs, got 4 of them, really easy to use, no spills and stop running when the tank is nearly full, no good on filling tanks that have vertical caps , got them from off road motorcycle shop , I think ballards import them , unsure about the static, cost about $90 haven't caught fire yet

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The plans for my wooden Jodel include a comprehensive braided static harness linking all major metal components: undercarriage, engine, spa bolts, controls, tanks and tailwheel. I'm sure composite aircraft need the same.

 

 

[skeptic36]

We are using tuff jugs, got 4 of them,

What are "tuff jugs"?

 

Are these tuff jugs?

 

She's only got two.

 

 

[Cosmick]

Nice Tats (I think)

 

 

[Roscoe]

There are some interesting earlier threads on here about this topic and Flight Safety Australia had this article in it last year:

 

http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2015/09/stopping-the-spark/

Thanks mate, this seems to sum it up pretty well and answers my question.

I appreciate you providing this article.

 

 

[facthunter]

Stepping out of small aircraft I have often got a jolt through my body when I contact the ground. This will earth the plane but isn't a lot of fun. If you hop so you aren't touching the plane at the same time you avoid it. I mention this to illustrate that high charges are not unusual around aircraft with rubber tyres. Landing charges are something else that can shock you. Nev