Horror few weeks for the US military

[fly_tornado]

A B52 crahed in Guam

 

2 USMC F18s collided

 

1 Blue angel killed and F18 destroyed

 

1 Thunderbird F16 crashed

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

True, f_t; oh, so true. Terrible events, these.

 

As much as we hate to hear about crashes from time to time, it's unreal to see so many crashes in such a short period of time. As many hours as our military are in the air one expects to lose a plane now and then and hopes for outcomes like the B52 incident when they do happen. The full crew got out of that one. But it's rather unusual to hear of a Thunderbird or Blue Angel crash; something we don't expect despite the fact that they're flying challenging routines in fast (but aging) aircraft. But this week certainly hasn’t gone well.

 

I was considering flying up to see the Smyrna, Tennessee airshow in my A22LS provided the weather cooperated for tomorrow and I could get an early departure window during the demonstrations for my return trip. Frankly, I lost interest after learning of the crash of the F-18 and the loss of the pilot. Even if they fly the airshow this weekend - which I haven’t checked - it wouldn’t be an enjoyable event for me. My condolences to the Navy pilot’s family and friends. I am thankful that so many of the aircrew members on the other planes survived.

 

Blue Angels jet, Thunderbird F-16 crash - CNNPolitics.com

 

Blue Angels, Thunderbird plane crashes leave one dead

 

Thunderbirds and Blue Angels: 5 things to know

 

 

[Spooks]

Very sad incidents. I was reading this a few weeks ago about issues with the older aircraft they use (blue Angels and T-birds)

 

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/blue-angel-f-a-18-hornets-shed-parts-in-flight-twice-in-1709836712

 

I was quite surprised to read that they use 'hand me down' aircraft. I'd have thought they'd be using younger airframes considering the displays they do so close to the crowds, and the fact they're a huge advert for the various armed forces.

 

SrPilot, looks like the Blue Angels have cancelled their upcoming show. However it looks like they're going to use the proceeds to help the family of Captain Kuss and set up a college fund

 

Blue Angels will not perform in Syracuse next week

 

RIP to Captain Kuss

 

 

[dutchroll]

It's hugely expensive running a military aerobatics team. They rarely ever use brand new frontline aircraft, as those aircraft are intended for their original purpose.

 

However although the older variants are maintenance intensive, they're not necessarily any less safe than a brand new one out of the factory and they're certainly no less spectacular. Precision flying in an old F/A-18 is the same as precision flying in a brand new F/A-18.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

this happened recently with #5

 

Blue Angel #5 Loses Part Of Wing At Rockford Airfest

 

 

[dutchroll]

I shed airframe sheetmetal screws out of my Pitts almost every time I go flying (doing aerobatics)! When you're pulling serious load factors it happens.

 

Someone ejects from a military display team and it makes news for a week. Someone ejects from a normal military training flight and it makes news for a night.....if you're lucky.

 

A small piece of leading edge flap comes off a Blue Angels F/A-18 and it's a massive talking point for days. We get CDLs (Configuration Deviation List) on commercial airline flights all the time and no-one bats an eyelid!

 

Example straight of the CDL Manual: "Slat End Filling - Quantity installed: 2. All may be missing. Approach speed, add 5 knots. Landing distance, multiply by 1.08."

 

Sorry....no alarm intended!

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

I shed airframe sheetmetal screws out of my Pitts almost every time I go flying (doing aerobatics)! When you're pulling serious load factors it happens. Someone ejects from a military display team and it makes news for a week. Someone ejects from a normal military training flight and it makes news for a night.....if you're lucky. A small piece of leading edge flap comes off a Blue Angels F/A-18 and it's a massive talking point for days. We get CDLs (Configuration Deviation List) on commercial airline flights all the time and no-one bats an eyelid! Example straight of the CDL Manual: "Slat End Filling - Quantity installed: 2. All may be missing. Approach speed, add 5 knots. Landing distance, multiply by 1.08." Sorry....no alarm intended!

I know of what you speak DR. I once lost parts with resulting damage in my Citabria 7KCAB. The noise when the parts departed and struck the fuselage sounded like a shotgun blast in the cockpit. The backseater said (calmly) "Hey, we are losing parts back here." The return-to-base was a bit interesting.

 

re the news factor: When someone ejects from an aerobatic plane, 100,000 people gasp. When someone ejects from a military ops plane, it's quite possible no one is around to gasp, and if the enemy is below, they're probably too busy shooting at the pilot to gasp.

 

In Chris Strickland's case, it was 85,000 gasping people.

 

 

I saw Captain Kuss fly at our home field in 2015 but never met him. He was lost this week in the Blue Angels crash. The Blues put on a great show and they have visited us 3 times over the past few years (including 2014 and 2015). I think the earlier visit was 2010. The Captain would not have been flying with the Blues if he had been less than very, very good. We will await official word about what went wrong. No speculation from these quarters.

 

Blue Angels Pilot That Died in Crash Performed in Tuscaloosa

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

SrPilot, looks like the Blue Angels have cancelled their upcoming show. However it looks like they're going to use the proceeds to help the family of Captain Kuss and set up a college fund Blue Angels will not perform in Syracuse next week

 

RIP to Captain Kuss

Thanks Spooks. I was thinking about a run up to Smyrna TN for the airshow this weekend. I presume they cancelled it too. Syracuse is far, far away. E.g., my home to Smyrna TN is similar to a run from Cairns to Townsville. From here to Syracuse is similar to Melbourne to Brisbane. I won't be going to Syracuse anytime soon.

 

 

[M61A1]

I shed airframe sheetmetal screws out of my Pitts almost every time I go flying (doing aerobatics)! When you're pulling serious load factors it happens.Someone ejects from a military display team and it makes news for a week. Someone ejects from a normal military training flight and it makes news for a night.....if you're lucky.

 

A small piece of leading edge flap comes off a Blue Angels F/A-18 and it's a massive talking point for days. We get CDLs (Configuration Deviation List) on commercial airline flights all the time and no-one bats an eyelid!

 

Example straight of the CDL Manual: "Slat End Filling - Quantity installed: 2. All may be missing. Approach speed, add 5 knots. Landing distance, multiply by 1.08."

 

Sorry....no alarm intended!

Yep, Pigs used to occasionally lose vanes from the flap system. Rather than spend a lot of hours fitting and re-rigging, it would be CFU'd until next maintenance. One lost an overwing fairing (covers the bit where the wing sweeps into), on departure fro Richmond (I think), a panel bigger than a single bed, I am not certain, but I think they secured loos ends and flew it back to Amberley.

 

 

[dutchroll]

It's always interesting seeing the media hype, like the one recently where a 737 engine cowl had a hole patched with high speed tape and a petrified passenger took a photo of it. I had to explain to a non-flying friend that it's not actually normal tape like you get at Bunnings, it's a non critical structure, and the temporary repair is detailed in the manufacturer's repair manual and has been designed by professional engineers.

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

Another week, another crash - this one a mid-air collision of two South Carolina Air Guard F-16s out of McEntire AB, South Carolina. Fortunately, the two pilots successfully ejected and were returned to base.

 

My best friend's son is a pilot in the unit but he was not on duty at the time of the crash.

 

Full 7:30 a.m. press conference from McEntire Joint National Guard Base

 

2nd F-16 crash site found in Jefferson County

 

Full early afternoon press conference from McEntire Joint National Guard Base

 

SC Air National Guard: 'Pilots able to walk away' after jets collide over Georgia

 

F-16 fighters collide over Georgia; pilots safe

 

The 169th is a top-line fighter unit. Under current military alignment, many air guard units are at the tip of the spear. In my day in the USAF, the regular air force units were at the tip and the air guard had our 6. Now with realignments, the part-time guard units sometimes hold the front postings. The 169th is one of those units. These guys are good - very good - but something went bump in the night.

 

 

[DrZoos]

This why i dont like seeing CASA or RAA flyng off the handle when we see a rash of accidents...

 

accidents by definition occur without intention or predetermined timing...so its imoortant we focus on trends and averages rather than sudden concurrent occurances of events...

 

 

[Marty_d]

This why i dont like seeing CASA or RAA flyng off the handle when we see a rash of accidents...accidents by definition occur without intention or predetermined timing...so its imoortant we focus on trends and averages rather than sudden concurrent occurances of events...

.I guess there's more than one way to look at that. Yes, a sudden rash of accidents when looked at statistically may be simple coincidence. This is especially likely if there are no real points of commonality - eg different aircraft types / units / training regimes / maintenance crews etc etc.

 

However when you get common factors you'd have to start investigating. (Thinking of the Comet for example...)

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

.Yes, a sudden rash of accidents when looked at statistically may be simple coincidence. This is especially likely if there are no real points of commonality - eg different aircraft types / units / training regimes / maintenance crews etc etc. However when you get common factors you'd have to start investigating. (Thinking of the Comet for example...)

Depending on who one is listening to, or what they are focusing on at the time, the speculations about causation range from [in no certain order - every person has their own order of speculation]:

 

1. Downsizing of the military - namely, reduced budgets for equipment, parts, training, practice.

 

2. Aging of the fleet. Some of the stuff is getting old. (e.g., the B-52H that crashed at Guam a few weeks ago would have been a 1960 model - one of "the last of the B-52s).

 

3. Departure of experienced pilots and maintenance personnel from the forces due to more frequent rotations overseas, fewer opportunities for advancement within the services due to downsizing, higher pay in civilian world for experienced pilots and maintenance personnel who no longer have to visit Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and other "hot spots").

 

For a tip-of-the-iceberg view of why the tip-of-the-spear may be a bit blunted, see, e.g.,

 

The Marine Corps' aviation fleet is in peril

 

Majority of US Marine Corps jet fighters not airworthy: Report

 

Budget cuts leaving Marine Corps aircraft grounded | Fox News

 

One can hear similar stories about the USAF and the Navy.

 

I have a lot of confidence in our military, but it's not as well-healed as the as the military in which I served. Maybe it just cost more to keep us on top of our game.

 

Here's a documentary film of our days on the lines: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) - IMDb

 

Well, maybe this one depicts our service a mite more respectfully: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057090/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_28

 

Whichever, just remember that those early 1960s movies show B52s, still our go-to long range heavy bomber. We have others but the B52 has been like a Timex watch or an Energizer Bunny - it just keeps on keeping on.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

One of those news articles I read quoted 70% of F18s being grounded due to being unairworthy

 

 

[M61A1]

This why i dont like seeing CASA or RAA flyng off the handle when we see a rash of accidents...accidents by definition occur without intention or predetermined timing...so its imoortant we focus on trends and averages rather than sudden concurrent occurances of events...

Well, best get used to it with the current ex-defence crew, they will be trying to implement a new process/ procedure for every incident/accident reported. They will then start to expect people to report anytime the process/procedure is breached, which will keep going into an ever increasing snowball of crap.

 

 

[jetjr]

Maybe they have been talking to workcover or some of the teir 1 contractors here?

 

 

[willedoo]

On the subject of aerobatic teams, the Russian fleet of Su-27's was grounded after the fatal crash of one of the Russian Knights, on June 9th..

 

Su-27 Flanker of the Russian Knights aerobatic team crashes in Russia. Pilot killed.