Spitfire damaged in motorway incident

[spacesailor]

AND the biggest cockup law-wise is children in poorly designed trailers (plural).

 

spacesailor

 

 

[turboplanner]

The design and construction of trailers with aggregate mass less than 4.5 tonnes is covered in National Code of Practice, Vehicle Standards Bulletin 1 - https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/files/VSB1_JUN2009.pdf

 

That's very comprehensive in terms of dimensions and lighting, but not loading, so I'll see if I can find that.

 

As a matter of interest, by now you should have replaced your old unrated safety chains on your trailer or caravan with the yellow coloured rated ones for the towed weight.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Interesting; I see I've done 70 minutes of searching and haven't found the key reference for mass distribution on trailers we need.

 

Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14, National Code of Practice - Light Vehicle Construction and Modification is the most likely place any regulations will reside, but it's still a work in progress.

 

Vehicles in the NA (less than 3.5 tonnes GVM) and NB (greater than 3.5 tonnes GVM) call up calculations in accordance with Vehicle Standards Bulletin 6, which applies to all heavier trucks.

 

This is relevant to just all light trailers, because the downforce on the towbar must be calculated, and particularly with dual cab utes and trays where the rear overhand is a long way behind the rear wheels, outside the wheelbase in a cantilever configuration, each kg on the towbar levers some mass off the front axle. That mass doesn't just stay up in the air, but is added to the rear axle.

 

So in designing the trailer, there will be a maximum tow ball weight the trailer can apply to keep the tow vehicle stable.

 

This requirement will often subtantially reduce the towing capacity of these vehicles when towing a conventional trailer (i.e. not one with a turntable on the front axle and a hinged A frame)

 

For trailer stability the tow coupling needs to apply a downforce, and the rule of thumb is 10% of the loaded weight. For dynamic stability the COG of the load needs to be between the tow coupling and the centre line of the trailer axle(s).

 

Trailers have a T Category

 

TA Very light trailer: Gross Trailer Mass not exceeding 0.75 tonnes

 

TB Light Trailer: Gross Trailer Mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes (other than TA)

 

TC Medium Trailer: Gross Trailer Mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes, not exceeding 10 tonnes

 

TD Heavy Trailer: exceeding 10 tonnes

 

 

[M61A1]

The simple fact remains, so many drivers have such poor vehicle control skills, they can't even correct effectively, when they just drift off the edge of the road.No Cookies | The Courier Mail

Around here a significant number of drivers can't even keep their vehicle between two white lines 3m apart at walking speed, let alone at highway speed. Not seeing trucks and pulling out in front of them is a common way for them to kill themselves. One about 18 months ago , managed to impact a B double halfway along as he exited a T intersection. When the sole focus of govt is on speed, they have no hope of it getting any better.

Drink driving is rife, the amount of drivers on the phone or texting is ridiculous, and the new cars with all the bells and whistles, just seem to keep drivers distracted from the task of driving. My partner took a photo of a woman the other day ( I was driving) who was driving with a coffee and cig in one hand and the phone in the other.

 

 

[fred cenko]

Trailer looks more like it attaches to a ute rather than a prime mover. It's ball hitch would have been just fine until he hit a bump. It is easy to leave the hitch unlocked if you leave the locking lever resting above it's tab.

Always good to have a backup system like the 2 chains and shackles attached,if that was the case.Poor fella,must

have really looked forward to flying it.

 

 

[M61A1]

The way it works is:A

 

The manufacturer loads a truck to GVM for the ADR35 brake test; it also meets the correct front and rear axle/tyre/legal limits.

 

It's tested so it doesn't get out of shape under emergency braking, stays straight within a certain lane width.

 

Then it's certified.

 

B

 

When a body is put on it a calculation must be done by all those involved in building the body, extending/shortening the wheelbase to a code of practice, so that when the centre of gravity of the load is placed on the mid-point of the body'y's load bearing surface, with mass is distributed so that, with the cab/chassis mass and full fuel and driver the weight is distributed for the correct front and rear axle/tyre/legal limits. Loading personnel can then confidently evenly load the body about the centre of the load bearing surface.

 

C

 

When the truck is loaded, the loader, and when driven the driver must meet the quaintly worded Load Restraint Guide, which commits the loader and driver to load the vehicle up to GVM with the Centre of Gravity on the mid point of the body, this loading the axles to their correct limits, and retaining the braking and handling stability of the truck as Certified.

 

Under the LRG, as the driver is making his deliveries, after each drop he is responsible to ensure the truck remains in balance; not unlike a pilot has to do.

 

So different people have responsibilities for different phases of manufacture and loading and operation of the vehicle.

 

I haven't checked what the codes in force for small trailers are, and I haven't got into the more complicated Semi Trailer and B Double situation where I could write a thesis.

I refer you to post #25 with a link to the QLD safe towing guide, which refers you to the LRG

 

 

[turboplanner]

I refer you to post #25 with a link to the QLD safe towing guide, which refers you to the LRG

That's a good enough link. The other States will probably have a similar linkage.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The Qld Load Restraint Guide is just that.

It's the evidence for your defence against negligence; you can always try arguing that you did it a better way, but the only time the issue comes up is when the accident occurs, and there's been a failure.

We never used to take any notice of Australian Standards either, but noiw, if there is one, and you're not complying with it that's a breach of duty of care.

 

 

[M61A1]

The Qld Load Restraint Guide is just that.

Yes, but it does explain

When loaded, the centre of mass of a drawbar trailer, including its load, must be in

 

front of the centre of the axle group, to minimise trailer sway (see Figure B.9). This

 

means that the trailer coupling should push down on the towbar, not exceeding the

 

manufacturer’s ratings of the coupling and towbar.

 

The safe towing guide refers to stuff you should know BEFORE towing.

 

 

[boleropilot]

onetrack, my humble apologies - I am so used to being pilloried for something that happened to me many moons ago that I tend to react badly to perceived criticism - something that I firmly believe was not within my power to avoid at the time

 

One thing I have not mentioned is the awful thought that 'the incident' could have caused injury or death to myself or other road users - that has stayed with me and it is why I do my best to warn other drivers when I see trailers in dangerous situations on the road. Another incident I became involved in was when I "pulled up" a minibus towing a large luggage trailer - every time the trailer went over a bump there was a puff of blue smoke from one tyre - when we inspected it we found the load had shifted and that tyre was hitting a BOLT under the trailer - the tyre was severely damaged and about 10 seconds away from failing - imagine the carnage if that had failed at 100km/h and the minibus (with about 20 people on board) had been propelled into the path of one of the huge trucks that are common on that road.

 

More than one poster has mentioned the need for basic trailer training (and perhaps licencing) due to the potential for incidents - I might spend a few minutes of my time and pen a short letter to the RACQ...

 

Drive (and FLY) safe, people, lest the God of Nasty Incidents turns his intentions toward you and smites thee with unpleasant happenings.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Turbs you copied and pasted my post as I was deleting it. For the record I decided to delete it only because I didn't want to perpetuate the arguments in this thread further.

 

I agree with your comment, but the LRG has been tested in court and has been found to be wanting. There are some things in the LRG that I would never do, there are others there that I did for many years before someone wrote a book to tell me how. At the end of the day ATM it is a guide and cannot be enforced. The problem is the number of people who think it is law and try to enforce it, and I am now talking about actual enforcement officers.

 

Sadly all professions have good and bad operators and no amount of legislation will change that. Education on the other hand has a chance but in some cases that education needs to be taken out of the classroom and into the field.

 

 

[boleropilot]

so there's a Safe Towing Guide ? is it given to people when they get their licence? does it come with every new trailer sold? but then what about used trailers?

 

 

[boleropilot]

ah, Enforcement Officers - God knows we need a lot more of those, folks.....

 

 

[Geoff13]

When loading anything I go by one test. It used to be called the Father test but now with age I have changed it to the Grandfather test.

 

Whenever I load something and before I move I study the load and ask myself 1 simple question.

 

Would I be happy to take this load past my childrens school as my wife is dropping the kids off.

 

(Now it is the Grandchildrens School but I still use my wife in the equation because I do not like my daughter in law so could get a biased opinion)

 

It is a simple yes/no question.

 

If I answer yes then I would take it anywhere.

 

If I answer no then it does not move.

 

 

[Geoff13]

ah, Enforcement Officers - God knows we need a lot more of those, folks.....

Yes but sadly they along with many others could often do with better education.

 

 

[onetrack]

Geoff is spot on, the LRG is just that - A Guide, as its title states. There is little in the Guide that is enforced by law. What is definitely needed, is more hands-on training.

 

Load restraint is one thing that really gets up my nose - or rather, the lack of it. And it's not just car drivers or tradies - a lot of truckies are way too casual as regards load security.

 

The amount of road debris I've come across is staggering - star pickets, gluts, big bolts, pieces of steel, hay bales, tyre carcasses, pieces of furniture. All with the potential to cause a serious accident.

 

I've even come across a complete truck spare wheel carrier frame, lying in the centre of a major country highway - right on dusk, as I was driving into the setting sun.

 

How you could lose that, and not notice, is beyond me.

 

Not many people know that all load restraint mechanisms - be they rope or ratchet straps, are now required to meet AS/NZS 4380:2001 standard (since April 2015).

 

The problem is, there's still a lot of new rope and straps being sold that don't have AS/NZS 4380:2001 certification marked on them.

 

Of course, the basic problem is getting drivers to understand what is happening to a load, or going to happen to a load, with the amount of wind pressure on it, at 100kmh.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Geoff is spot on, the LRG is just that - A Guide, as its title states. There is little in the Guide that is enforced by law. What is definitely needed, is more hands-on training.

Specific to Queensland and TA, TB.TC trailers:

 

Queensland TMR calls up their "Safe Towing Guide"

 

Towing (Department of Transport and Main Roads)

 

The Safe Towing Guide (note the key legal word "safe")

 

Towing (Department of Transport and Main Roads)

 

This says: "The load must be properly secured to your trailer. It is recommended that you refer to the Load Restraint Guide on the NTC Site"

 

While the word "must" is an imperative, "properly" is subjective - the government is not going to assume liability by prescribing how you can load the trailer and restrain the load "properly", so it refers you to an industry benchmark.

 

So while the LRG is not a prescriptive regulation, it is your lifeboat if someone is injured or killed and you're on the wrong end of a lawsuit. If you are compliant with the "guide", that's your defence against negligence.

 

As a couple have said, technically Compliance and Enforcement officers can't enforce it because it's not a prescriptive law, and it never ceases to amuse me that road authorities, having dumped the responsibility for public liability on our shoulders, can't help themselves in re-assuming the risk, which they do if they step in and give you advice on how to load and restrain the load.

 

NTC - National Transport Commission

 

The Load Restrain Guide, in Section G, Item 13, calls up Load Distribution, and you'll see a chart very similar to a Jabiru W&B Chart, and just as hard to understand.

 

You need to stay withing that distribution envelope every time you load a truck or trailer.

 

You can do that by calculating mass distribution, which for a straightforward truck takes me about 4 1/2 minutes manually with a calculator, 17 seconds using excel if the load is a straigh forward water level load.

 

So the steps are almost identical to what I laid out for vehicles over 4.5 tonnes GVM earlier.

 

The manufacturer has to produce a vehicle which is compliant with Australian Design Rules

 

The Body, when installed/trailer load bearing surface has to be calculated for dynamic stability by the builder/seller

 

The operator has to ensure the load is distributed correctly.

 

So when that vehicle/trailer is on the road, all the people have a legal responsibility for compliance. Courts usually place more weighting on the professionals - the builders and marketers and professional loaders, compared to the drivers whose primary skills are driving. That would explain why in some posts above, builders/loaders have been defendants.

 

Of course, the basic problem is getting drivers to understand what is happening to a load, or going to happen to a load, with the amount of wind pressure on it, at 100kmh.

All legal operations like that should be, and may well have been taken into account in the Guide.

Geoff had some disagreements with some of the restraint recommendations in the Guide. That is not surprising because the guide has been expanded in recent years, and sometimes during that process, thought bubbles are added by the deskbound.

 

Those disagreements should be brought to the attention of the NTC - they would usually be receptive, and the guide can be updated to weed out the crap.

 

For example ADR38, trailer braking originally required trailer park brakes to be capable of restraining both the trailer and the towing vehicles on a steep grade (from memory 18% for 20 minutes). The people who came up with this were primarily semi trailer engineers, and a tri axle trailer could easily hold a 6x4 prime mover.

 

When I pointed out that tiny luggage/kitchen trailers behind three axle touring coaches, light furniture vans behind tandem drive trucks, power pole carriers and a long list of other small trailers couldn't get enough traction to achieve this, my alternative proposal was just written in to ADR 38, so authorities will often respond positively.

 

 

[spacesailor]

WHAT!

 

No bites about throwing a couple 6 year-old kids into the trailer to nip down to the shops. Do they (the kids) have to have seat-belts or any other safety gear, in the trailer?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[turboplanner]

so there's a Safe Towing Guide ? is it given to people when they get their licence? does it come with every new trailer sold? but then what about used trailers?

Ignorance is no excuse, although I'll admit the legals on this one were hard to find.

The principle about used units is that when you build a new unit, it must be safe for the next buyer.

 

Before the code of practice I used to sell trucks with standard wheelbase and 7 meter vans to TNT. Rear axle was legal with parcels, and I painted red lines on the inside walls at the 6 meter point so they would also be legal with 6 meters of general freight. If they sold the truck they would have to explain the system to the new buyer, but there was no guarantee they would remember, or the next guy would sell it to someone and he would load the full 7 metres. The truck would then be out of balance and could oversteer on a wet corner or swap ends under brakes.

 

Once the Code of Practice came in I had to extend the wheelbase so the truck was balanced with both loads. This ensured it would still be safe in the hands of the second or fifth owner.

 

Same goes with a trailer; they are a pleasure to tow, corner like they're on rails.

 

 

[boleropilot]

ignorance is no excuse?

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

I just shooda known, hey?

 

 

[turboplanner]

ignorance is no excuse?hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I just shooda known, hey?

Now that you've been helped to find the Queensland regulations, you won't be affected by that, will you.

 

 

[Yenn]

Good on you Bolero. The way I read your earlier post I assumed you had pulled over people acting as a police officer to book them. That is completely different from advising them they had a problem.

 

 

[boleropilot]

Now that you've been helped to find the Queensland regulations, you won't be affected by that, will you.

I AM SO SICK OF THIS BULL SCHNITZEL - ARE YOU SERIOUSLY TELLING ME (LIKE SOME OTHER TOSSER ON THIS FORUM) THAT I WAS AT FAULT WITH MY TRAILER ACCIDENT BECAUSE I SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE TRANSPORT DEPARTMENT AND GOT A COPY OF THE REGULATIONS BEFORE I BOUGHT THE TRAILER (LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET) SO THAT I WOULD KNOW IF SOME MORON WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER LOADED MY TRAILER INCORRECTLY??????

 

AND BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO THAT I WAS ENTIRELY AT FAULT AND MY IGNORANCE OF THE REGULATIONS (AND ALL THE INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN) IS NO EXCUSE???????????????????????

 

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FAR KING MIND????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

MODERATORS, PLEASE NOTE: CLOSE MY ACCOUNT, TEAR IT UP, TAKE ME OFF THE BOOKS, I AM OUT OF HERE AND WILL NOT BE BACK

 

GOOD NEWS FOR SOME NO DOUBT, BUT HEY, GOOD NEWS FOR ME TOO, I AM SO OVER THIS GARBAGE

 

 

[storchy neil]

boleropilot I love your attitude persons that are incapable of taking advice offered by persons that have taken the trouble to point persons in the direction the rules and regulations into a statement made by persons

 

for over forty years I piloted heavy transports over every state of aust vic tas nsw qld nt sa wa and had to know road rules and regulations off every state for road trains b double triples wide load long load over height

 

well princess chill out neil

 

 

[M61A1]

When loading anything I go by one test. It used to be called the Father test but now with age I have changed it to the Grandfather test.Whenever I load something and before I move I study the load and ask myself 1 simple question.

 

Would I be happy to take this load past my childrens school as my wife is dropping the kids off.

 

(Now it is the Grandchildrens School but I still use my wife in the equation because I do not like my daughter in law so could get a biased opinion)

 

It is a simple yes/no question.

 

If I answer yes then I would take it anywhere.

 

If I answer no then it does not move.

I always ask myself ( and not just before towing/loading), "what's the worst that can happen?", I don't think that it's overly difficult to work out just how badly things could go at times.