Who is the minister responsible

[turboplanner]

All our manufacturing jobs sent overseas: Not too mediocre there.Have a look at the youth unemployment and underemployment figures: Not to mediocre there.

What about job security especially for those who have to support a mortgage or be tossed out on the street: Not too mediocre there, but as long as we have cheap airfares, all's well....

I know a bit about that, I was one of the very first people I the automotive industry to see his potential employment disappear overseas; I resolved it by transferring to the industries which were on the increase.

Australia's unemployment statistics indicate that very few were tossed out on the street; in fact we are well on our way to filling the gap created by the end of the minerals boom, now providing increasing emplyment in the tourism industry.

 

Now, you may be someone who would like manufacturing here; it's quite achievable, but you have to be prepared to take wages of one or two dollars per hour.

 

You also have to solve the critical mass issue of production at 20 units per day here vs typically 2400 per day and resolve the tooling amortisation hurdle.

 

 

[Methusala]

Don't worry, the tourist industry won't be around much longer. GBR disappearing under layers of eroded silt and fertiliser/chemical run-off and trying to survive elevated water temperatures and increased acidity from HCO3 impeding the ability of crustacea to build a liveable crust.

 

 

[Geoff13]

In Qld about $18,500.00 per year for a B/Double Prime Mover and 2 trailers.

 

About $8,500.00 for a single and trailer.

 

I have never run shuttles but I think 600,00 might be a bit high.

 

Any driver doing more than about 250,000 a year would be pushing the limits. That is 1,000 klms per day 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. (I did once put 570,000 klms on a truck in 2 years, but I would never want to do it again.)

 

1,000 klms a day 5 days a week is not easy and 6 days a week is right on the limit of anyone's endurance.

 

Don't forget the tax on fuel which is also supposed to go to road maintenance. Most of these B/Doubles are on around 1.6 to 1.8 klms per litre. So around 140,000 litres per year.

 

In 1998 I spoke to an RTA guy on the weighbridge at Marulan who said that each night on the 8 hour night shift they had about 3,000 trucks through each direction. That was one inter capital highway so yes the road transports contribution to infrastructure is sizeable.

 

 

[M61A1]

And when you have the CFMEU taking a large chunk of your budget for maintaining roads, you can afford even less. I suspect the utterly ridiculous amount of "safety" people doing FA on every site eat into the budget substantially too. We spend too much on regulation and not enough on actual work.

Yeah it's hilarious FT....the CFMEU cost Victorians 30% more for every govt contract. 30% less road for your dollar, makes me want to laugh.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

n.The downside for the truckie is he needs to pay for a more powerful engine and more fuel to pay for the increased rolling resistence of the bitumen and gradeability for the hills.

Nah, they just think they do, very ego driven. In the old Hume Hwy days I knew an operator quite well who ran 350hp Cummins with 6 speeds, took about half an hour more Melb to Syd (pre-100kmh limited) at almost half the fuel and he used to laugh at the 500hp wankers chewing it up. Oh, and of course he had no chrome either. He made good profits while others whined.

 

It's an eye opener in China, if you want to know what gearing and patience is all about, try watching a multiple ton tipper going up a hill with only a single cylinder, 50hp diesel in low, low, low, low, low 1st at walking pace. I'll grab a vid next time I pass one.

 

Now, you may be someone who would like manufacturing here; it's quite achievable, but you have to be prepared to take wages of one or two dollars per hour.

.

It often gets quoted but wages have little to do with it, even Holdens (at the time when they had that stupid name) released their cost comparison between Aus and Thailand manufacturig and Dunnydoor was only $1300 more in Aus at $30K.

 

All the people over the years who have contacted me asking about doing stuff in China relate messages of woe dealing with everything else required to run a business in Oz, never mention wages. they are sick of always being on the back foot with everything, stupidity such as car parking, gardens, wheelchair access requirements etc.

 

Yeah it's hilarious FT....the CFMEU cost Victorians 30% more for every govt contract. 30% less road for your dollar, makes me want to laugh.

I've been a member of the CFMEU and worked a major inner Melbourne site and man, what people don't know what goes on. 3 shirts, 2 pants, a bomber jacket and 2 pair of high quality work boots is what the Company had to buy every worker just to walk on site the first day - even if you quit a few days later which a few did just to get those goodies. And that's just the beginning. The amount of snap mini strikes were too much for me, I just wanted to arrive, work and go home and get paid for it, apparently that's unreasonable. Mostly the Australian and NZ gangs were the same, just wanted to work, that time left a bad taste in me for Slavs and Muslims, and of course the Pommy on-site Union Leader.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

let me get this right a truck driver in vic gets $1500 a week instead of the $1200? Big deal

 

you suffer from small target syndrome. unable to see the bigger picture, perhaps from watching too much ACA?

 

try your hardest to wrap your head around this

 

This week the gas cartel gouged you by... - MacroBusiness

 

It’s a gas! Australian gas is a bargain … if you’re Japanese | Michael West

 

3 shirts, 2 pants, a bomber jacket and 2 pair of high quality work boots

bex that's a massive rip off! about $100 worth of gear

 

 

[bexrbetter]

bex that's a massive rip off! about $100 worth of gear

No, no it wasn't, and besides that, you could only go to one particular shop to buy it - guess who owned it.

 

Besides point missed. The concept of Unions is awesome, but in a practical sense they are a pox on society.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

$100 bucks worth of gear, all that stuff is made in China and Bangladesh.

 

Unions are mostly just nickle and dime crims. Look at Craig Thompson and Cathy Jackson, neither had the slightest clue as to how they were going to get away with their embezzling.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I have never run shuttles but I think 600,00 might be a bit high.

Toll's shuttle operation has accommodation at Gilgandra; one driver takes the truck from Melbourne to Gilgandra then goes to bed. Another drives it to Brisbanse and then goes to bed, so four drivers.

At each destination the trailer sets are dropped in the depot and the driver goes straight off bob tail. The trailer sets are then unloaded by four fork trucks - it's an impressive operation.

 

I used 48 hours turnaround time and 182.5 days x 3322 km.

 

 

[jetjr]

FT, you havent bought AS high vis work gear for a while

 

Inc ppe it would be closer to $800 and many sites see 20 new employees per week

 

Half a day for inductions, another half to read and sign up to all tra and prestart docs, thats all for a labourer who might stay for a few days or a week.

 

Each item of the safety system itself isnt a big deal but once added it cost heaps in time and lost productivity.

 

Problem is many dont accept this as a real cost of the safer work environment

 

 

[M61A1]

FT, you havent bought AS high vis work gear for a whileInc ppe it would be closer to $800 and many sites see 20 new employees per week

Half a day for inductions, another half to read and sign up to all tra and prestart docs, thats all for a labourer who might stay for a few days or a week.

 

Each item of the safety system itself isnt a big deal but once added it cost heaps in time and lost productivity.

 

Problem is many dont accept this as a real cost of the safer work environment

Part of the problem is that is doesn't do much to enhance safety, it just supports a spinoff industry..

 

 

[old man emu]

I've just come from a meeting with a client for whom I have done a workplace safety risk survey. (Small workforce metal manufacturing business) The client asked me about Hi-Vis clothing for his workers.

 

I told him to survey the possible risks that wearing Hi-Vis would reduce. Since there are no moving vehicles in the factory; no work is done outside the building; there are about 5 people working within the building on the floor, and the welders say that they get too much reflection from Hi-Vis clothing, I told him to forget Hi-Vis and supply the workers with overalls in the colour he wants for his uniform after documenting his risk assessment so he could justify his decision. The overalls will give better protection from welding radiation, an hot slag, as well as being more fire resistant than a polymer material vest.

 

There are too many people who demand the wearing of Hi-Vis gear in situations where a risk survey and assessment has not been conducted and the only justification for wearing it is "everyone else wears it".

 

I was in a shopping centre recently around lunchtime and crowds of construction workers were there buying food. They were all wearing yellow, so no individual stood out from the crowd. It was like trying to identify one particular zebra in a herd.

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

The cops have to know who to pull over for a breath test, and the Pollies use a lot of them in an election run up. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

The pollies use the cops to pull over their enemies for breath tests?

 

Really?

 

 

[old man emu]

The pollies use the cops to pull over their enemies for breath tests?Really?

Yep. That's how come the figures for the number of breath tests conducted by police skyrocket during election campaigns. So many targets, so few RBT sites.

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

I didn't say or infer what you think. They do target "tradies" as many have a drink after work. Pollies turn up everywhere in factories, sitting in fire trucks etc wearing visibility gear, at election lead up time. Nev

 

 

[aro]

That's a lot of money, but does it cover the real cost of maintaining and replacing the roads they use?

Reportedly, about 99% of damage to roads is caused by trucks. Plus the roads are much more expensive to build due to truck requirements.

 

The estimated damage to roads rises as the 4th power of weight i.e. double the weight causes 16x the damage.

 

A single truck causes as much damage as several thousand cars.

 

Source: Loads | Pavement Interactive

 

Note: That site appears to be selling road construction and design related software, NOT some raging Greenie or rail fanatic site.

 

Another study suggests that for lower strength pavement damage is the 6th power of weight i.e. double the weight causes 64 times the damage.

 

It's pretty well accepted in economics that transport by truck is massively subsidised by taxpayers and the cost paid by truck operators is nothing like the true cost.

 

 

[Yenn]

The Bruce Hwy around here has had major upgrades in the past 3 or so years and it is just falling to pieces. It is nothing to do with the trucks it is the methods they are using nowadays and the poor quality road base.

 

Government of all types is so intent on spending less but it is going to cme back and kick us all in the face when our infrastructure finally collapses.

 

Local govt. skites about how it keeps rate rises down, but I walk down the road and see acres of Lantana on the road reserve. It is a declared wees and us landowners have to keep it under control, but govt. can't see it.

 

 

[Hargraves]

Heavy vehicle haulage typically run tyre pressures 3 to 4 times that of average passenger cars and weight 35 times plus of the same. They all run extensively high pressures to optimize rolling resistance for economic reasons and that hammers the ......... out of our roads as well. The reason rail transport is no longer economical is because its infastructure was deliberately run down to ensure that outcome. Our country, more than almost any other, is THE most suitable for an efficient rail network based on distances,topography, weather and geological stability. In my past working world (defence support industry) it would not be much of a stretch at all to call that decision treason. On the other issue raised the electoral result we just acheived is, I believe, not just a protest vote occourance (again) but instead reflects the closest result to a vote of no confidence in the major parties as we could get in this system. Cheers Hargraves

 

 

[turboplanner]

Heavy vehicle haulage typically run tyre pressures 3 to 4 times that of average passenger cars and weight 35 times plus of the same. They all run extensively high pressures to optimize rolling resistance for economic reasons and that hammers the ......... out of our roads as well. The reason rail transport is no longer economical is because its infastructure was deliberately run down to ensure that outcome. Our country, more than almost any other, is THE most suitable for an efficient rail network based on distances,topography, weather and geological stability. In my past working world (defence support industry) it would not be much of a stretch at all to call that decision treason. On the other issue raised the electoral result we just acheived is, I believe, not just a protest vote occourance (again) but instead reflects the closest result to a vote of no confidence in the major parties as we could get in this system. Cheers Hargraves

Tyre pressure in heavy trucks is 100 psi, so about three times that of a car, but the reason for that is to prevent overheating and failure, which is the same reason different car tyres have different maximum pressures.

 

It plays no part in road flex.

 

It's also not used in day to day calculations of rolling resistance; there is a noticeable change in fuel burn and vehicle performance between bias ply and radial ply tyres, and rolling resistance, and this fuel burn and gradability are effected by the road surface, concrete being the optimum, falling away with flexible pavement (bitumen), falling away further, and often requiring different gearing on dirt roads, to the worst scenario, loose sand where sometimes hub reduction is needed.

 

Rail transport in Australia is not economical because we can't have a hub system like the US.

 

On paper, routes like Melbourne Sydney or Sydney Brisbane look economical, but even using Containers, the freight to go isn't at the rail station, it has to be brought in by truck, and freight at the destination doesn't go into adjacent warehouses, it has to be delivered by truck, sometimes in six hours or more trips.

 

Where a departure to destination on the one train can be achieved, as in the mining areas of Western Australia and Queensland, its paper advantage can be achieved.

 

However on our coastal freight routes, semi trailers, B Double and Road Trains can pick up the fright from where it needs to be picked up, and deliver it to where it needs to be delivered much faster, at less cost.

 

Rail trainsport was not deliberately run down, it just failed economically, despite massive taxpayer funds being poured into it.

 

There is one example of a train, which is owned and run by very exerienced transport people, which operates from Melbournhe to Perth direct; It is pulled by two locos, has its own diesel tanker wagons, and crew sleeping cooking and relaxation carriages, and carries all its shift employees the full distance there and back, so it never has to stop, and presumably that one is working.

 

The decisions that were made were not treason, just sound decisions based on cost.

 

 

[turboplanner]

In relation to Hargraves "weight 35 times plus" statement, if we compare withg a 1.5 tonne car, a steer tyre on a heavy truck (Semi trailer) imposes 4x the weight, a drive tyre on a 4x2 truck imposes 3x car mass, a tandem drive tyre imposes 2.75x car mass and a triaxle trailer imposes less again.

 

The designs and dimensions spear the loads to that pavement flex is not doubled up, and grouping dimensions ensure that total weight is spread over multiple beams of bridges.

 

The ensure all this, about 61 concurrent calculations are required for a B Double.

 

 

[skeptic36]

I don't think most of the damage is caused by downward pressure, I think sideways movement of tandems and tri axles on corners are the worst. It appears that way around here, judging by where most of the repairs happen.

 

 

[facthunter]

Corner, edges and where braking occurs. The tarred section shears and moves into folds. Other sections are unsupported byt he foundation and just crack and let water in and it's all over for that section of road.The roads are obviously inadequate for the job in most areas, and deteriorate rapidly . Pavement depth factors etc for aircraft are calculated based on Tyre pressure . Pavement thickness very large. Most of the older cement roads were built during the depression and are worn out . Nev

 

 

[aro]

Rail trainsport was not deliberately run down, it just failed economically, despite massive taxpayer funds being poured into it.

More taxpayer funds are put into road freight, it is just better hidden.

 

Fundamentally, the problem is that the when the cost of road and rail is compared infrastructure cost is excluded for road and included for rail. The fact that everybody drives cars makes it easy to hide the cost of building and maintaining roads suitable for trucks in the general roads budget.

 

 

[Hargraves]

100 psi vertually solid tyres have less impact on our road sufaces than passenger vehicles with 32 psi - really - good luck with that one eh. I don,t dought at all that infrastructure such as centralised terminal hubs and warehousing are required to run an efficent rail system and that road haulage to and from would be required by anyone without a freight yard in their backyard is still applicable and will remain so leaving express delivers and not regular freight to the petroleum companies who run the country. Their will nearly always be a differance between sound economic reasoning decisions and what is actually in the best interest of the country,s critical longterm requirments under our two party hide in the party system. The very exponents of (got to bite the bullet for economic reasons now) are an actual impediment in the long term interest of the best country in the world, that we see time and again. Thanks for the interest all. I,m off to grab some air. cheers Hargraves