AOPA calls on CASA for private pilot medical reform

[kgwilson]

The class 2 medical is a complete crock. The UK statistics prove that all it has done over there is to line the pockets of the enforcers and DAMES. All it does is to specify that at the point in time that you completed the medical, you were above the line they have arbitrarily drawn based on some sort of empirical data they have agreed upon. The minute you leave the surgery you could keel over from all manner of things including those they say you have a low risk of having. Perfectly healthy, fit, and active people supposedly in the low risk sector have strokes, heart attacks, contract deadly diseases etc.

 

The UK CAA have the right principles and their removal of the class 2 type medical is proof they are putting these in to action.

 

Have a look at this thread. No more medicals for private pilots in UK

 

I'll repeat the UK CAAs top level principles which are :-

 

• Only regulate directly when necessary and do so proportionately
   
   
  
• Deregulate where we can
   
   
  
• Delegate where appropriate
   
   
  
• Do not gold-plate, and quickly and efficiently remove gold-plating that already exists
   
   
  
• Help create a vibrant and dynamic GA sector in the UK.
   
   
  

 

 

CASA needs to get its head out of its arxe, stop building even bigger empires & look at reality. The trouble is it is full of old ex GA RA & military types who are control freaks of the highest order and are a law unto themselves with no direction from the political arena. The Forsyth report proves that. The Jabiru engine fiasco confirms it.

 

 

[facthunter]

The original concept goes back to eliminating people, with anything less than being 100% OK. as in military situations ( No flat feet etc.) It's not based on safety, although that is the excuse. A stress ecg could cause death even weeks later. An angiogram has a potential mortality rate. A CT scan increases the Risk of Cancer. AS Stated, It's a snapshot of you at a point in time. I know people who have survived 50 years after having a BIG heart attack in their 40's.. That's a long time.. There is plenty of evidence emerging that the medical checks being required are NOT effective in predicting mortality. If you aim for a longer active life there are tests and processes to follow that would be much different to the AVMED approach. Lifestyle based and self monitoring, far more effective. Be honest with yourself though, and it will work well. Nev

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

All good discussion and some excellent food for thought. Lets keep the discussion going!

 

I will give you all a sneak peak of a sample of AOPA charts, which are based on data published by CASA in their annual reports. If you track general aviation pilot numbers from 2000 to 2015 you get a very clear picture of what is happening - a staggering 34% decline in general aviation pilots.

 

The decline in real numbers means that some 8,000 pilots have exited our industry!

 

Between 2000 and 2010 we lost approx 3,000 pilots over the ten (10) year period. Then between 2010 and 2014 we lost a further 3,000 pilots - in just four years. Then between 2014 and 2015 a further 1,000 pilots - in just one (1) year.

 

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

So, then lets take a look at AVGAS consumption for the same period. Between 2000 and 2015 we have experienced a 35% decline in AVGAS.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Not as reliable an indicator as pistons aren't used in more aircraft all the time, plus a lot more run on mogas. Recently Skidmore denied that the Industry was declining and required AOPA to prove it if they keep saying so.. Nev

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

Facthunter... General aviation pilots have reduced by 34% and AVGAS has reduced by 35% and you cant see a direct correlation?

 

Lets take a look at another chart... Since 2007 the number of aircraft being added to the Australian general aviation industry fleet has declined by 53%! Yes, you can attribute this to a range of factors. That said, you cant hide away from the fact that reducing pilot numbers means reducing aviation activity!

 

This is seriously bad news for our aircraft sales industry and the businesses which perform engineering and support. Fewer jobs and of course contributing to industry contraction.

 

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

With the above in mind, lets take a look at the other side of the aircraft registration equation - The Number of Aircraft Removed from the Register!

 

Comparing the same period of 2007 to 2015, the number of aircraft cancelled from the Australian general aviation register has increased by 51%.

 

To be clear, as of 2015 - Approx 350 aircraft were added, with 340 removed! Should the numbers continue on trend, in 15/16 more aircraft will be leaving the register than what is being replenished! Given that full impact of Cessna SID's has only in the last 12 months been felt, I believe that the Australian general aviation fleet will now be in established decline and the situation will only get worse, unless we can kick-start flying activity for private and business owners again.

 

LETS RE-CAP WHAT THE CHARTS ARE TELLING US....

 

 

 

1. Pilot numbers are in serious decline

 

2. AVGAS sales are in serious decline

 

3. Number of new aircraft being added to industry is in serious decline

 

4. Number of aircraft registration cancellations is seriously increasing

 

 

 

PROGNOSIS: The industry is in established decline - PERIOD.

 

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

With regard to CASA calling on AOPA to prove that the industry is in decline....

 

All of the data for the above charts have been sourced from CASA and the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science. There is also data from the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics. All of the information is publicly available and downloadable from their various websites.

 

 

[Nobody]

Benjamin,

 

I wonder what the aircraft registrations data would look like with the Experimental Amature built excluded. I suspect that a high proportion of the new additions are experimental and so the real picture for the industry is worse.

 

Nobody

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not suggesting otherwise. Just that Avgas consumption alone is not a direct and provable relationship, when there are two other fuels in the picture. Avgas is a good fuel and it's availability isn't assured.

 

Good indication is Hours flown comparisons and aircraft active added Vs/removed from use. I know a lot of people in the game and getting out of it, and this has been happening foe quite a few years now, and most are not impressed with the way things are going . Australia is a big enough country to need planes of all kinds. We definitely could do much better. Nev

 

 

[Guest Benjamin]

The chart you see below, is for US General Aviation Pilot Numbers. This means General Aviation Students, Private and Commercial Pilots - Identical data sets that we have used for the Australian analysis.

 

In 2006 the FAA recorded 400,283 general aviation pilots and in 2015 the number of pilots had increased to 422,887 - a four (4) percent increase in pilots!

 

Between 2006 and 2010 the US recorded year on year growth in pilot numbers - In contrast Australia's general aviation pilot numbers were collapsing, experiencing year on year decline.

 

Interestingly, the US experienced wholesale growth in general aviation instructor numbers! In 2006 there were 91,343 certified instructors and by 2016 there were 102,628 having grown by 11% - An increase of 11,285 actual instructors!

 

Australia's general aviation pilot community declined 34% by 8,700 pilots, whilst the US pilot community grew by 4% increasing pilot numbers by 22,600!

 

 

 

[Vev]

Globally the push is on to reform Avmed requirements!

 

IAOPA Pressing For Worldwide Driver's Licence Medical - AVweb flash Article

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[facthunter]

We will be the last to get with it on past performance. Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

We can get it right now. I have a US pilot certificate, just need to fly a US registered airplane here.

 

 

[rrogerramjet]

Came across this post in my hunt about avmed status..wish I'd researched internet more thoroughly BEFORE going for my Class2 and I wouldve learnt to be as circumspect as possible at the test to avoid further scrutiny.

 

As a new entrant to PPL I am 'grounded' with absolutely no guarantee that CASA will find me fit to fly.

 

I think a big warning should be on CASA website-

 

"Complete and recieve your class2 medical before comnencing ANY PPL/CPL flight training as we cannot guarantee you will ever be granted a medical clearance to fly, or if so may come at sigificant additional expense to you."

 

Which is all the more confusing given I went flying the very next week after recieving my initial assesment advice in RAAus over some of the very same routes I intend to fly GA !

 

What really does my head in is why am I seeing a DAME for CASA to simply come back and ask more questions, some of them already dealt with in the MRS responses and some I could have completed there and then, and not got on the pathology/specialist roundabout.

 

My results have come back demanding:

 

a) optometrist prescription.

 

Fair call. I just failed the N4 near sight test. The optometrist said its very marginal, indeed still within the range of most peoples 'normal' vision (i.e. mine was particularly good in years past) and she wouldnt even bother with issuing lenses at this time, but CASA will demand it of course.

 

b) I admitted to having mild asthma, carry a ventolin for those very rare occassions.

 

Discussed with the doctor, have had condition for years, no biggie. Not incapacitating, never really has been.

 

Surprise, CASA want a full pre / post bronchodilator spirometry test.

 

c) Suffered a very common cancer back in 1997. All gone, no further treatment ever required, no monitoring. 20 years ago.

 

Surprise! CASA want to know if I have any further treatment or monitoring.

 

(At this point we begin to seriously wonder whether they even bothered to read mine and the DAME notes in my MRS record right?)

 

d)ECG stress test. Because I rate >14 on their scale I am up for what I hear is a rather expensive test. I have a heart like Pharlap (Multiple Dr's have commented before) with a perfectly normal blood pressure and low resting heart rate. I exercise consistently and probably more regularly than the vast majority of late 40's males ( by the looks of all those portly rounded guys my age, or less)

 

If this test finds anything useful I will be both annoyed and maybe somewhat a little grateful.

 

e)I admitted to irrregularly having 'one too many' (i.e. more than 4 std drinks according to NHMRC) based on the fact that I sometimes have Friday afternoon beers after work and now and then on a weekend have been known to top off a bottle of wine whilst out to dinner. Is that too much? Sure, probably is. Do I do it before flying? Hell no!

 

Isnt there an .02 limit for GA, just like driving?

 

Surprise! CASA want a liver function test AND a CDT test, which is usually the preserve of testing for chronic alcohol dependence. Im kinda insulted, but hey if that comes back positive mb I will need to reassess my drinking habits....or easier, ignore them and keep my RAAus licence. :)

 

Meanwhile, should the CASA medical fraternity ever see me fit to fly I'll be driving my car at 110kmh down the highway to the airfield and jumping in the RAAus plane to fly all over the regular routes that CASA seem to have some serious caution and concern about me doing at maybe 10knts faster in a GA aircraft. Go figure.

 

As an aside, I had no idea at the time who he was or how loved he was by the flying fraternity, I am friends with one of Dr Navanthes' sons and have had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times before he took off to Newcastle....if only I had known, I could have given he and his ridiculously restrictive and incongruent avmed system a mouthful! Opportunity missed....

 

Fly safe!

 

Ramjet

 

 

[Bats]

Ouch, there's a cautionary tale if I ever saw one! Unfortunately all this stupidity drives people to cheat the system - use multiple doctors and ensure that none of them subscribe to the central medical database that is supposedly "for our protection". I suspect most of us know people, who on the face of it, live pretty unhealthy lifestyles and yet renew medicals with apparent ease, playing the system as it were.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

If anyone doesn't mind a Class 2 medical every two years because it makes them see a doctor, maybe they should stop being so lazy and do so. Just don't force the requirement on all of us. Some of us have a checkup every year anyway including complete bloods. Helps to have your own personal former RN who is keen on that stuff.

 

What I've seen waddle out of the cockpit of commuter airliners doesn't fill me with any confidence in the medical system for aviation.

 

The public is at greater risk if you drive your car and have a sudden incapacitation event as you can easily cause a head on, run over a pedestrian, cause that oncoming schoolbus with 40 kids to run off the road and rollover or crash into a tree.

 

Aircraft crash all the time for all sorts of reasons and very rarely is even any significant property on the ground damaged let alone deaths and injuries to people. When damage does occur it is likely to be from a larger, usually commercial aircraft flown by a commercial pilot with a Class 1 and there the problem is usually non medical anway.

 

Remember "The State is not your friend". It has its own goals and they don't include, you, your welfare, happiness or freedom.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The general comments I get from those who have to get class 2s is do not offer any information at all, go to a different doctor than your own & state that you do not have a personal GP. The whole Avmed system is bureaucracy gone mad with the focus on arce covering rather than practical and pragmatic processes. Some people have spent tens of thousands of dollars with multiple specialists trying to get through. Each time even more off the wall tests are required and questions asked from the CASAtapo. All this and they can not produce any evidence that the system has had any effect on pilot safety. This is why the UK CAA got rid of the class 2 for PPLs who fly by day opting for the same requirements as needed to drive a car.

 

The ridiculousness of the system only encourages people to cheat it.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Here is a big part of the problem:

 

Bureaucrats can operate in a consequence-free environment. So they can issue edicts which damage the activity they are supposed to be looking after without suffering any consequence themselves.

 

If I had my way, CASA bureaucrats would have their pay tied to the health of the aviation industry.

 

Migod I would sabotage the very basis of the public service. And a good thing it would be.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Only until end of next week to comment, people. I suggest if nothing else a simple statement that you support the AOPA proposal 100% will do. Put "AvMed discussion paper" in the subject line and send to [email protected]

 

If you fly RAAus this could effect you as one of the CASA proposals is to require the RAMPC medical for you. This is exactly the same medical standard as for a Class 2 PPL medical so if you can't get a Class 2 and are flying RAAus as a result it will stop you from flying.

 

You might also like to mention that the risk to those on the ground is so low that CASA requires carriage of ELB's in order to locate the crash. If the risk was high someone would see it.

 

 

[Geoff B]

Fellers I'm embarrassed to ask but the ill fated RPL Was what, what is the abbreviation for?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder if it would be helpful for me to remark how CASA is my biggest impediment to safe operation because they force me to fly lower than safe in order to leave completely unused airspace above me free from Jabirus and gliders.

 

I reckon several outside controlled airspace aircraft have crashed because of being too low to glide to safety following a power loss. More than the number who would have crashed through the pilot having a medical episode which would have been picked up by the higher standard compared with the present standard.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Recreational Pilot Licence. Requires RAMPC medical the same medical standard as for a Class 2 PPL medical. A bad joke played on Australian pilots by former CASA boss John McCormick.

 

 

[Super Cub]

RPL = Recreational Pilots Licence. (as apposed to a RPC = Recreational Pilot Certificate)

 

RPL

 

More restrictive than a PPL.

 

Doesn't require a Class 2 medical but a RAMPC medical

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Why not mention that, Bruce? The aim of the exercise is TOTAL risk management, not risk management in one small area. Don't spend always limited time and money fixing things that are a very small part of the overall picture. Also know as "affordable safety" for which Dick Smith was unjustly lambasted. It simply means spend the money and effort where it will do the most good. Medical causes of aviation accidents are a very small part of the total, something under 1% when I last looked. More like 0.5% actually and then you have to find if that medical cause would have been picked up in the Aviation Medical. In most cases, no.