Emirates B-777 incident at DUBAI.

[Phil Perry]

Hats off to the cabin crew here. . . . Top job !

 

 

[stickshaker]

Yes it is. But we know few people pay close attention to it.

Isn't the saying something like "democracy is great, until you talk to the average voter" :)

 

Fair to say an emergency would be interesting and something I'm not keen for, unless I'm closest to the exit!

 

 

[red750]

I recall after landing at YMML on one flight. the stewardess said, "Anyone who moves before the seatbelt light goes off has to stay and clean the plane." No-one moved.

 

 

[red750]

Speaking as you were earlier about travelling in India (sorry, been at a funeral), here's a little video "I've been (y)everyvere man." Indian version.

 

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Speaking as you were earlier about travelling in India (sorry, been at a funeral), here's a little video "I've been (y)everyvere man." Indian version.

Is there an English version anywhere?

 

 

[red750]

Just for you, Bex

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=700glKoiH-U

 

 

[dutchroll]

In answer to my own question:From another aviation website - I obviously have no idea whether this is correct or not:

"Initial report from another pilot very nearby.

 

Landed very hard

 

Rejected landing

 

Airborne

 

Go around actions commenced

 

Gear retraction commenced

 

Settled back on the runway"

That's bizarre. If that's truly the sequence of events, there's a possibility of miscommunication and/or indecision between the flying pilot and non-flying pilot.

Or.....landing perhaps was heavy enough to do severe damage and they elected to go-around but immediately realised the severity of the damage and pulled the thrust off halfway through the go-around actions. But that doesn't make sense either. You either go around or you don't. If you go around and realise there's a gear leg half dangling off the plane or other warnings going off, as long as the plane is actually flying, you just stick with it. Sort it out in the air and prepare yourself for another even more awkward landing.

 

This will be an interesting investigation for sure. And yeah I'l bet the pilots don't have jobs anymore even if it ends up not being their fault. Emirates operate under UAE law, where workplace laws and protections are non-existent.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Just for you, Bex

I was playing up to the Telecom, errr I mean Indian accent.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

A newspaper has named the F/O (who they say is a pilot from a major Australian airline on leave without pay)

 

 

[dutchroll]

A newspaper has named the F/O (who they say is a pilot from a major Australian airline on leave without pay)

There's only one major airline here with pilots on leave without pay at Emirates.

I don't recall the guy personally, but the name sounded vaguely familiar.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Must say that PPrune was reasonable with regard to this accident, ( In general anyhow ) I remember well the speculation which went on when a certain pilot flew an aircraft into a mountain in Europe as a deliberate act of murder. . . and the specualtion was unbelievable. . . .until the last few pages of the comments when everyone had to backtrack.

 

I dunno. . . . . I suppose it would be a silly question to ask Dutch,. . . and any other RPT or ex RPT pilots on here. . . . bordering upon the rhetorical. . .I wonder, what percentage of the users of PPRUNE are actually pilots D'you think ? . . .I gave up on watching the site a couple of years ago actually, as some of the comments were really 'Out There' with the fairies and I'm only a lowly PPL now,. . without even a twin rating anymore. . . who did a bit of medium weight P2 cargo stuff for hire or reward a long time ago. . . .

 

Reading through it lately,. . it seems to have a lot of wannabees and Microsoft FS people there who just want to be Part of the Band. . . . Like some kind of psychological crutch or something like that. . . I dunno. . . . SAD Anyway. . .perhaps I'm reading into things wrongly. . . . .

 

TBQH I don't really care that much,. . .but I wondered what you think from a professional angle. My mate Dave Perry ( no relation ) whom I peronally serously infected with flight a long time ago, and is now a Skipper for Thomas Cook airlines. .has a fairly derogatory opinion of these websites, as there is no way to vet who comments. . . .not that this in itlself is a problem,. . .but as you are aware, the news people look at it for Info. . . . the mind bogglifies . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

The temp was around 49 C I believe. I don't personally know of desert climate wind effects in the ME but I can't rule out something significant as having happened in that area. I've experienced mini cyclones at near ground level that could easily write off the aircraft, whatever it's size.

 

Regarding Pprune, if they are currently operating pilots , I would be wary of their mental state... I go there sometimes for info but you need a bit of filtering skill. Nev

 

 

[dutchroll]

I dunno. . . . . I suppose it would be a silly question to ask Dutch,. . . and any other RPT or ex RPT pilots on here. . . . bordering upon the rhetorical. . .I wonder, what percentage of the users of PPRUNE are actually pilots D'you think ? . . .I gave up on watching the site a couple of years ago actually, as some of the comments were really 'Out There' with the fairies . . .

PPrune has been around as a bulletin board for a long time. In PPrune's earlier days in the 90s and early 00s when its founder Danny ran the whole show, it wasn't so bad. I used to be a regular but I haven't posted on there for quite some years (unless it was in a red wine induced haze perhaps). In the last 6 or 7 years I reckon I've looked at it twice.

That was all a consequence of concluding there was little intelligent life to be found among an increasing infestation of people who had no clue what they were talking about on any topic at all let alone aviation. I'm not talking about differences of opinion (even strong ones) like we get here. I'm talking about posters who were just obviously twits and trolls, and trying to talk any sort of sense into them was a fruitless endeavour.

 

I do know the media peruse it quite a bit. Also some company management do too, but that's par for the course these days. When I left it I reckon less than half the comments on it about RPT were from anyone who actually flew RPT.

 

I honestly believe everyone is entitled to express their opinion, but pretending they have expertise on a topic when they obviously don't is the bit which is either amusing or irritating.

 

Flight Sim: Funny true story. At a dinner party with my wife's medical colleagues a few years back. A specialist doctor told me he'd have no problems landing a B737 by himself if the pilots died, because he'd done it in MS flight sim. One of those awkward social moments where you politely nod, sip some more wine, and try to change the topic.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

PPrune has been around as a bulletin board for a long time. In PPrune's earlier days in the 90s and early 00s when its founder Danny ran the whole show, it wasn't so bad. I used to be a regular but I haven't posted on there for quite some years (unless it was in a red wine induced haze perhaps). In the last 6 or 7 years I reckon I've looked at it twice.That was all a consequence of concluding there was little intelligent life to be found among an increasing infestation of people who had no clue what they were talking about on any topic at all let alone aviation. I'm not talking about differences of opinion (even strong ones) like we get here. I'm talking about posters who were just obviously twits and trolls, and trying to talk any sort of sense into them was a fruitless endeavour.

 

I do know the media peruse it quite a bit. Also some company management do too, but that's par for the course these days. When I left it I reckon less than half the comments on it about RPT were from anyone who actually flew RPT.

 

I honestly believe everyone is entitled to express their opinion, but pretending they have expertise on a topic when they obviously don't is the bit which is either amusing or irritating.

 

Flight Sim: Funny true story. At a dinner party with my wife's medical colleagues a few years back. A specialist doctor told me he'd have no problems landing a B737 by himself if the pilots died, because he'd done it in MS flight sim. One of those awkward social moments where you politely nod, sip some more wine, and try to change the topic.

Jesus H. . . . .I took one of those up on our last fly-in. . .in a Foxbat. . . .long time Flight simulator user. . .5,000 hours he told me. . . . . . Hmmm. . . . He went to pieces when he was Actually operating in three actual dimensions. . . . lost the plot within five minutes, and,. . . . as we all know,. . .it is not rocket science. . . . he could not understand that you don't have to 'SlAM' the controls about,. . .that it is just 'Gentle changes of pressure. . . .' to elicit the result you require. . . computer sims don't and can't tell you this important fact. . . . Said Bloke told his mates on landing that the plane 'Wasn't a proper plane,. . .just a fecking Microlight. . . . ."

 

Still. . .It's nice to see how new passengers react to 'OUR' kind of flight innit ?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

PPrune has been around as a bulletin board for a long time. In PPrune's earlier days in the 90s and early 00s when its founder Danny ran the whole show, it wasn't so bad. I used to be a regular but I haven't posted on there for quite some years (unless it was in a red wine induced haze perhaps). In the last 6 or 7 years I reckon I've looked at it twice.That was all a consequence of concluding there was little intelligent life to be found among an increasing infestation of people who had no clue what they were talking about on any topic at all let alone aviation. I'm not talking about differences of opinion (even strong ones) like we get here. I'm talking about posters who were just obviously twits and trolls, and trying to talk any sort of sense into them was a fruitless endeavour.

 

I do know the media peruse it quite a bit. Also some company management do too, but that's par for the course these days. When I left it I reckon less than half the comments on it about RPT were from anyone who actually flew RPT.

 

I honestly believe everyone is entitled to express their opinion, but pretending they have expertise on a topic when they obviously don't is the bit which is either amusing or irritating.

 

Flight Sim: Funny true story. At a dinner party with my wife's medical colleagues a few years back. A specialist doctor told me he'd have no problems landing a B737 by himself if the pilots died, because he'd done it in MS flight sim. One of those awkward social moments where you politely nod, sip some more wine, and try to change the topic.

Wifey said. . .on our flight to Cyprus last year,. . . ( Aircraft - Airbus A320 ) . . ."You've flown bigger things than this,. . .if the pilots got sick,. . .you'd get us there OK wouldn't you. . .?

 

I said ( quietly. . .)

 

No,. . .Actually. . . .I don't think I would . . . . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

She said. . .'Why Not ?" I said well, . . . can we equity release around thirty grand from our

 

house. . . ., so that I can get up so speed on the Airbus type,. . .and then, . . . .in the event of a million to one chance,. . .I will then be able ( maybe ) to get you to Cyprus in one piece. . . if the Turkish airforce don't shoot us down. . . . . Civvy training bases normally don't teach combat flying. . . .

 

Ya just gotta love wives. . . . ( It's the law over 'ere in the UK . . . )

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... A specialist doctor told me he'd have no problems landing a B737 by himself if the pilots died, because he'd done it in MS flight sim. One of those awkward social moments where you politely nod, sip some more wine, and try to change the topic.

You could've offered to do his job for a day; after all, you've done surgery sim...

 

 

[dutchroll]

Don't sell yourself short Phil. With deft instruction & assistance from the ground you probably could do it on autopilot. In the absence of that yeah you'd probably be screwed.

 

The advantage (don't underestimate it) you have is that having flown a real aircraft, albeit a very small one, you know what it's like getting bumped around & turning this way and that. That often freaks people out who've never flown a real one before.

 

 

[onetrack]

The reported temperature of 49 deg C would have had a pretty sizeable effect on performance, of even a B777, wouldn't it?

 

And that's just at the temperature reporting location - the temperature over the runway would have to be a lot more, wouldn't it?

 

It's not until you've stood out on a big area of hotmix bitumen for an extended period, on a 38 deg C day, that you understand what "heat sink" means (that's heat sink as in heat absorption).

 

There have also been reports of windshear, which I understood was their reason for selecting TOGA.

 

If there was a combination of windshear and the performance-reducing heat effect, coupled with a few seconds delay in the decision to GA, then one can perhaps understand the reasons behind the crash.

 

What puzzles me, and a lot of others, is the apparent gear-up position. Surely the Capt and FO would have ensured a positive climb rate before raising the gear?

 

I've been in, and also watched at close range, large RPT aircraft who carried out a GA. The one I was in, was due to departing military aircraft debris on the runway at YPDN, a couple sighted at YPPH were due to extremely gusty conditions.

 

They don't stuff around, the rejection decision isn't left to the last few seconds, but more like 150-200 feet - and the gear isn't raised until they're properly climbing.

 

I would suspect a very late and poorly-initiated decision to GA could be behind this crash. Could have perhaps also involved some miscommunication between the Emirati Capt and the Aussie FO.

 

NOTE - I'm not a SIM expert, not a commercial pilot, not a 16 yr old wanna-be - just expressing a personal opinion, which is what most people do on forums.

 

 

[facthunter]

. Simulators are very useful but some instructors become so used to them they get to believe the actual plane flies just like a simulator. Unless in very rough conditions, the plane needs gentle pressures applied for just the right time, smoothly. The simulator is a GAME. You can get to know how to "tweek" it and when to leave it alone, when it's going where you want it to. Excess inputs make life harder for you. I recall a French instructor saying "We will now go and" PLAY zee GAME". Not a bad description. In rough conditions you need strong inputs in the "real"aircraft controls. If you are uncoordinated this is not pretty to watch as there is a lot of effect with "POWERED" controls where all the feel is artificial. This and the bigger aircraft's inertia, might be a big change to what you are used to, with a small aeroplane. Nev

 

 

[Bats]

I find that the squelch needs to be set fairly high on the prune, however there are still some knowledgeable characters who post and it is interesting how often the collective get to some sort of answer quite quickly. Eg they seem to have arrived at a very similar conclusion to Dutchroll above, notwithstanding the fact that it tends to point to one of their own having stuffed up, at least to some degree. If nothing else all the news articles and charts tend to get collected in one place. There is also less of the parochial, "but he were a hell of a lad, would never make a mistake like that" that you see on other friendlier forums.

 

 

[Pearo]

Wifey said. . .on our flight to Cyprus last year,. . . ( Aircraft - Airbus A320 ) . . ."You've flown bigger things than this,. . .if the pilots got sick,. . .you'd get us there OK wouldn't you. . .?I said ( quietly. . .)

 

No,. . .Actually. . . .I don't think I would . . . . . .

I have actually landed a (virgin) 777 sim 3 times successfully. They are actually really easy to land.... when you have a sim captain in control of the flight scenario and he is also leaning forward and telling you everything you have to do, and when the plane has all these things like autothrottle etc engaged!

 

 

[facthunter]

With auto throttle and spoiler armed, if you come over the threshold at the right speed, and height it will probably do a reasonable landing by itself. It doesn't prove much. The same arrival with no spoiler used could be interesting. You also have to know the speed. It's different each time, depending on conditions and weight, and you do fly these things to very precise speeds. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

The reason for this post no longer exists. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

With auto throttle and spoiler armed, if you come over the threshold at the right speed, and height it will probably do a reasonable landing by itself. It doesn't prove much. The same arrival with no spoiler used could be interesting. You also have to know the speed. It's different each time, depending on conditions and weight, and you do fly these things to very precise speeds. Nev

Why do you think that is "creative" OK? Nev

Sorry Nev, didn't notice I'd accidentally done that. Will remove it now.