Political style election

[fly_tornado]

Well you don't know where the RAA is headed now, the friends five haven't actually outlined what they want to do, having their own website setup and not volunteering any information speaks volumes about how they feel about democratically representing the members.

 

 

[octave]

Well you don't know where the RAA is headed now, the friends five haven't actually outlined what they want to do, having their own website setup and not volunteering any information speaks volumes about how they feel about democratically representing the members.

You say they are not volunteering are saying that they wont answer emails? Have you asked questions and not received answers?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

No, I'm saying that they won't make their position on any RAA issue public. There is probably a reason for this, but seriously its the RAA governance will only go from mediocre to incompetent without public disclosure.

 

 

[octave]

No, I'm saying that they won't make their position on any RAA issue public. There is probably a reason for this, but seriously its the RAA governance will only go from mediocre to incompetent without public disclosure.

Public disclosure of what? Of course the statement by each candidate is not detailed, there is a contact form, you could ask questions. But I am not lobbying for any particular member, all I am saying is people (members) should do their research, make the effort and contact the candidates, ask questions and then vote. Complaining is fine by me, but without action is just ineffectual whinging. We can only vote for candidates that had the courage to put themselves forward. Those who complain the loudest COULD have put themselves forward but have not.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Whatever ones personal opinion is, this process it is certainly devicive. It is better to lead an organisation then it is to push - resulting in splinter groups in various directions.

 

Reminds me of regular statement of Julius Sumner Miller "Watch,watch,watch".

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Octave, when 5 people get together, obviously motivated by the urgent need for change and won't state what they intend to do, you have to wonder what they are up to. And the reason for not telling you what they intend to do? You might not like what they have got in mind for the RAA.

 

Using email instead of publicly stating your case? That's an easy deception, you can give different answers to different people and they are unlikely to compare notes. This has always been the case with the RAA, instead of putting things on the record everything is kept quiet.

 

The candidates know there are less than 1000 votes in the election so every vote will really make a difference to the outcome. The fact that Rod Birrell has been the only candidate to come on the forum to answer questions says heaps about his agenda, its there for you to see.

 

Using secrecy is one way the board has been able to avoid to much scrutiny over the years, this group looks committed to secrecy. So you can't expect any great change in the RAA's direction if this group are relying on failed procedures that have got us to this point.

 

 

[Oscar]

This is a serious issue, but I have to say that a few of the recent posts have had me in stitches.. (though I do worry that some of the posters may be at risk of getting their underpants tangled in their headset).

 

I only have ever met one of the 'ferocious five': Trevor Bange. I am afraid that he would be a terrible disappointment to those who would cast him in the role of an evil schemer.. I just can't see him sitting in a chair in some dark, secret cavern under RAA HQ, stroking a white cat and gloating at the bound form of a supplicant RAA member seeking, let's say, an MTOW increase...

 

'I suppose you expect me to beg for MTOW, Mr. Bange?"

 

'No, I expect you to fly'.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Are you losing it Oscar? how old is Trevor now, has to be the other side of 80.

 

 

[Oscar]

Well, FT, I have no real idea how old Trevor is - but he is still training pilots, maintaining RAA aircraft, and providing a fine facility on his property that supports the operation of what I believe is the largest recreational flying Club in Australia. One that, every year, turns on one of the most successful fly-ins in the country. And he is a member of the RAA Board, which is hardly cost-free to those on that, at the very least in direct time. He's been a serious contributor to 'amateur' aviation on a volunteer basis for yonks, with the GFA and the AUF/RAA., for maybe fifty years.

 

So: what have YOU contributed to the RAA general community? Here's your chance, FT, to acquaint us with your beneficence. Don't be shy - let us know. It's the unsung heroes, such as (presumably) yourself, that have made RAA what it is. Share your achievements.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You are losing it Oscar, my contribution is immaterial as I am not running for office.

 

How long since you were in Clifton?

 

 

[Fishla]

 

Of course we need aircraft ...

 

 

This is a serious issue, but I have to say that a few of the recent posts have had me in stitches.. (though I do worry that some of the posters may be at risk of getting their underpants tangled in their headset).I only have ever met one of the 'ferocious five': Trevor Bange. I am afraid that he would be a terrible disappointment to those who would cast him in the role of an evil schemer.. I just can't see him sitting in a chair in some dark, secret cavern under RAA HQ, stroking a white cat and gloating at the bound form of a supplicant RAA member seeking, let's say, an MTOW increase...

 

'I suppose you expect me to beg for MTOW, Mr. Bange?"

 

'No, I expect you to fly'.

[mnewbery]

If anyone asks Trevor how old he is he will tell you. Let's not go casting nusturtiums un-necessarily. Pretty sure the F_W_Puffin hasn't been to Clifton for a very long time. Nobody has had an unexplained, sudden and urgent need to start digging a large rectangular pit in the area as far as I know.

 

If anyone does, PM me and I will tell you how to avoid getting caught on the cameras I just installed

 

 

[mnewbery]

Also while we are talking old, Kevin McGrath is 86 and got his cross country endorsement quite recently while training from Clifton. Who do you think did the training and examination?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I'm going to vote for Rod Birrell because he contributes here. I would vote for Pauline Hanson too because she flies in a Jabiru.

 

And I want to know the positions of the other candidates on (1) owner maintenance and (2) fighting for safer airspace.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Good on Kev! that must be some sort of record.

 

I've only highlighted Trevor's age, because it could well be an issue, the duties of a company director are much more complicated than just being a board member. Of course, if Trevor is justing voting as part of a block, you are right Matthew, its not an issue at all.

 

 

[facthunter]

ft has always had a "thing " about age, which I've objected to a few times, here, as it can be discriminatory to apply it in BLANKET way. . Some societies respect their elders. Generalising is not productive in any case. There are some with fixed ideas at a very young age and some oldies with very progressive concepts. There are a few young people who shouldn't fly and a few old people who shouldn't fly. They make the grade or they don't. It's a performance assessment. Not a birthday cake candle count. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Why aren't you running Nev? You know the business and you're willing to share your ideas.

 

My mum is in her late 70s and I can definitely see signs of decline in her and her friends. Driving with them is scary sometimes, sometimes its ok

 

 

[facthunter]

I would have to try to be popular ft. I've never managed it in the past. I've done a lot of that sort of thing also and it's pretty thankless. Some are impossible to please, whatever you do. Yes I've certainly put some views forward here. Most of it's a first time I've "penned" it. (and probably the LAST time I will) It's more to promote ideas than put up ready made answers. The responses (or lack of) tell me a lot. I'm very passionate about what this movement could achieve, but not real confident that it will. (unfortunately)

 

Oldies.. You are right about SOME of them. It (Dementia) can sometimes start a lot earlier, even in their 50's. You can also be a dope at any age and they get to vote too, drive cars, ride motorbikes and fly planes. Nev

 

 

[mnewbery]

Posters in the thread are being trolled by the Australian president of WankPuffins International. Ignore.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Matthew, did you think that up all by yourself? It's very smart, I would give you a gold star if I had one.

 

Nev the idea of representatives, consulting and representing the wishes of the membership seems to have been lost to the RAA for the last few years, now its all about the struggle to gain control.

 

 

[mnewbery]

Old folks rock.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Anyone who ever responds in any way to the unrelenting trolling from the non-RAAus member and "Australian president of WankPuffins International" (APWPI) needs to reconsider what they think they may achieve from such a conversation.

 

I'd personally like to clarify that even though I will never again respond directly to any of the inscrutable grumblings that originate from the APWPI, my silence must never be taken as not disagreeing 100%.

 

Don

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Welcome back Don

 

 

[Keith Page]

The web site domain is owned by Andrew Schox - the WA based member of the Five for the Future.

To get my thinking up to speed, Which domain does he own?

Thank you for that. Something we must know.

 

KP

 

 

[Keith Page]

What an interesting set of responses.. with (of course), the 'Usual Suspects' chipping in their standard carping against any sort of change. Some can be dismissed as trolls, fighting against their increasingly evident irrelevance, some are expressing viable concerns.Those with an appreciation of history, will recognise the term 'pan-xxx-ism' - an entirely spurious harkening back to some mythical time when 'things were better'. In this specific case, the 'case' expounded by those who are now posting (unsupported by fact or reasoning,)a time when the 'democratic' nature of RAA was a 'golden past' which has been lost but needs to be reclaimed.

 

To use a phrase well-understood by those of Anglo-Saxon descent: 'BOLLOCKS'. The transformation of the AUF into the RAA, saw the ascent of a very few Board members into a cabal or clique - or frankly, a one-person ( and we know who that was) fiefdom that produced at its zenith the CASA audit, a dire financial situation and the granting of very considerable financial reward for a small number of individuals favoured by the Prince(s) of the RAA - who produced NOTHING but negative outcomes.

 

The mythical 'democratic' election of Board members based on geographical (regional) representation was a monumental cluster-fark. That boil was finally lanced with the Queanbeyan 'Emergency' meeting, but to my mind, it remained as an open wound at least until the passing of the 'new arrangements' and constitution. That change was a result of a 'democratic' process -open voting by eligible Members - and was by so far the decision of the majority who voted as to be utterly beyond question.

 

Other, than of course, those on here who did not get their hoped-for result and who continue to snipe, alluding to conspiracies that they are unable to even reasonably enunciate, let alone 'prove'. For them the Earth remains flat, humanity was designed and created in six days and NASA faked the Moon Landings. And there IS a Santa Claus, Virginia.

 

In various posts above, the results of RAA having to put Board members into responsible positions for areas well outside their level of competency has been expressed. It is unfair to attribute 'failure' to someone who has been pressed by necessity (i.e a paucity of better-equipped candidates) into a position of responsibility for which they did not have suitable expertise. The failure was NOT on the part of the individual but on the part of the process that failed to generate the membership in its governance group of people with appropriate expertise.

 

The Board does NOT have to be comprised of people who DO the work - but it most certainly DOES need to be comprised of people who have the competence to set the policies for and judge the effectiveness of the work being done, to advance the RAA. The fact that a group of people have recognised that they would be suited to working together for RAA objectives and have combined to utilise a common communication medium, is to me highly encouraging. That these individuals have been able to work together to utilise current information-disseminating techniques, suggests that they are well grounded in the business milieu of the times - something that RAA most certainly needs.

 

Those who yearn for a pan-RAA past, where 'democracy' ,'regional representation' and possibly meat platter raffles on Friday nights down at the Clubhouse reigned supreme, ought to look at the results of the Constitutional vote. I think that more than 90% of your fellow RAA members - extrapolating from the voting numbers - don't agree. They want an effective and competent RAA.

Oscar I am at wits end to arrive at a reason for your interest in RAAus when you are not a member. If you have a vested interest I can under stand. The drum beating for the ideological direction for RAAus has me wondering???

Regards,

 

KP