Multiple fatalities in crash off KTCL (U.S.)

[Guest SrPilot]

As I was nearing my hangar this morning I noticed a large column of black smoke coming up from behind the trees just off the departure end of runway 12 at KTCL. I thought someone was burning tires. Unfortunately, a transit airplane had just impacted off the runway. The news is still developing. First reports I received from a law enforcement agency was 5 fatalities. A source on the airport says 7. One TV news report, quoting an official, says 6.

 

 

[red dot on airport diagram is my hangar]

 

Crash site in trees to right of road abeam the red emergency vehicle.

 

 

Initial indications are that the airplane was a Piper Navajo with 5-7 persons on board. They were attempting a landings and "didn't make the runway." The impact was maybe 300-400 meters from the end of runway 30, but that would have been a downwind landing. They could have been attempting a close-in left base to runway 22 but that would have been tight. So far, officials aren't commenting. One person at the airport told me they were reporting an engine problem.

 

More forthcoming as information becomes public.

 

BREAKING: Plane crashes in Tuscaloosa County, multiple fatalities reported

 

Sunday, August 14th 2016, 1:05 pm CDTSunday, August 14th 2016, 1:05 pm CDT

 

By Ty Watwood, Executive Producer

 

NORTHPORT, AL (WBRC) -

 

A small plane crashed Sunday in Tuscaloosa County, killing as many as 6 people, according to Northport Fire Chief Bart Marshal.

 

Chief Marshal says there was a small fire that was extinguished. Marshal says it appears no one survived.

 

WBRC FOX6 News has multiple crews heading to the scene. This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Lots of details now in the news. Six people, three couples dead. Engine troubles reported.

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

From today's AVwebFlash <[email protected]>, available by subscription.

 

NTSB: Pilot Reported Mechanical Failures Before Crash

 

By Elaine Kauh

 

 

The Piper Navajo that crashed in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, this month, killing all six people aboard, had two fuel pump failures in flight. The twin had departed Orlando, Florida, Aug. 14 bound for Oxford, Mississippi. At 11:11 a.m., the private pilot reported a fuel pump failure to ATC and requested a diversion to the nearest airport, according to the NTSB’s preliminary report this week. A controller vectored the Piper to Tuscaloosa Regional Airport. About 10 miles from the field, the pilot reported failure of "the other fuel pump" and the aircraft descended until crashing into trees about 1650 feet from Runway 30 at KTCL, the report said. Investigators found a flight log found in the aircraft showing the pilot had flown the Navajo since March 2016 and logged about 48 hours in it.

 

 

[Robbo]

The Navajo is a nice and reliable aircraft, but they are a machine and things do fail.

 

 

[Yenn]

A very long shot to get two fuel pump failures at the same time. I wonder if there could have been damage by using incorrect fuel.

 

 

[alf jessup]

A very long shot to get two fuel pump failures at the same time. I wonder if there could have been damage by using incorrect fuel.

The other side of the coin Yenn is did it have fuel in it to make fuel pressure

 

Twin fuel pump failure in it means they were really out of luck

 

 

[facthunter]

If one fails every 1,000 hours the odds of two failing in the one flight are quite high. P&W JT8D's are pretty reliable. I know of one instance where one engine failed, and was replaced and the other failed two flying hours later, in a particular aircraft. That's getting close although almost impossible because the failure rate is very low. On a twin, You land at the nearest suitable aerodrome, when one fails. that's the rule. With pistons it's much worse as often you are operating the remaining engine at a power level above normal cruise and at a lower airspeed than normal, so it's under more stress. Nev

 

 

[silvercity]

Remember this?

 

Date: 19 December 2001

 

The final report on the Whyalla Airlines Piper Chieftain VH-MZK accident on 31 May 2000, in which all eight occupants died, was released today by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

 

ATSB Executive Director, Kym Bills, made the following statement: "The VH-MZK accident occurred after mechanical failures involving both engines forced the pilot to ditch the aircraft in Spencer Gulf, about 26km from Whyalla, on a dark, cloudy and moonless night.

 

Based on careful analysis of the engine failures and recorded radar and audio data, it is likely that the left engine failed first as a result of a fatigue crack in the crankshaft. This was initiated about 50 flights before the accident flight due to the breakdown of a connecting rod bearing insert. The combined effects of high combustion gas pressures developed as a result of deposit-induced pre-ignition, and lowered bearing insert retention forces due to an 'anti-galling' lubricating compound used during engine assembly by the manufacturer, led to this breakdown.

 

Lean fuel practices used by the operator increased the likelihood of lead oxybromide deposit-induced pre-ignition but were within the engine operating limits set by the aircraft manufacturer.

 

It is likely that because of the increased power demanded of the right engine after the left engine failed, abnormal combustion (detonation) occurred and rapidly raised the temperature of the pistons and cylinder heads. As a result, a hole melted in the number 6 piston causing loss of engine power and erratic engine operation. The subsequent ditching involved great pilot skill.

 

The ATSB examined components from a further ten similar engines that have failed since January 2000 (including two engines from another manufacturer) in order to better understand the failure mechanisms. Combustion chamber deposits that may create lead oxybromide deposit-induced pre-ignition were found in these engines. The Bureau concluded that engines that were operated at lean fuel-air mixtures during climb, and towards best economy mixtures during cruise flight, were more likely to show signs of such deposit-induced pre-ignition than those engines operated at full rich mixture during climb and at best power mixture during cruise.

 

On 30 October 2000 ATSB released recommendations about the risks of detonation and lean running and in relation to the desirability of life jackets and other life-saving equipment on smaller passenger aircraft flying over water. Today, we release further recommendations to:

 

• the US FAA in relation to engine deposits that may cause pre-ignition;
   
   
  
• the US FAA and the engine manufacturer on the use of anti-galling compounds between connecting rod bearing inserts and housings during engine assembly;
   
   
  
• CASA in relation to high power piston engine reliability more generally; and
   
   
  
• CASA in relation to providing guidance to pilots on ditching.
   
   
  

 

 

While there were deficiencies with the Whyalla Airlines safety culture and gaps with the extent of the regulator's surveillance of the operator, neither were significant accident factors.

 

No-one should be blamed for this accident, but if the lessons from it are learned, both in Australia and internationally, some good will have come from the tragic deaths of eight people."

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Remember this?

Chances would be highly improved with modern combustion chambers rather than 1950's hemi rubbish.

 

The knowledge is there of course, but if I have my info right, Lycoming and Continental won't update the design because if they do and this scenario happens to older engines, then they are very prone to massive lawsuits by admitting their previous engine design is faulty.

 

Sounds like crock to me but definitely possible especially considering the lawsuits for ridiculous stuff that have been thrown at Lyc and Conti.

 

 

[andrew lott]

Remember this?

Date: 19 December 2001

 

The final report on the Whyalla Airlines Piper Chieftain VH-MZK accident on 31 May 2000, in which all eight occupants died, was released today by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

 

ATSB Executive Director, Kym Bills, made the following statement: "The VH-MZK accident occurred after mechanical failures involving both engines forced the pilot to ditch the aircraft in Spencer Gulf, about 26km from Whyalla, on a dark, cloudy and moonless night.

 

Based on careful analysis of the engine failures and recorded radar and audio data, it is likely that the left engine failed first as a result of a fatigue crack in the crankshaft. This was initiated about 50 flights before the accident flight due to the breakdown of a connecting rod bearing insert. The combined effects of high combustion gas pressures developed as a result of deposit-induced pre-ignition, and lowered bearing insert retention forces due to an 'anti-galling' lubricating compound used during engine assembly by the manufacturer, led to this breakdown.

 

Lean fuel practices used by the operator increased the likelihood of lead oxybromide deposit-induced pre-ignition but were within the engine operating limits set by the aircraft manufacturer.

 

It is likely that because of the increased power demanded of the right engine after the left engine failed, abnormal combustion (detonation) occurred and rapidly raised the temperature of the pistons and cylinder heads. As a result, a hole melted in the number 6 piston causing loss of engine power and erratic engine operation. The subsequent ditching involved great pilot skill.

 

The ATSB examined components from a further ten similar engines that have failed since January 2000 (including two engines from another manufacturer) in order to better understand the failure mechanisms. Combustion chamber deposits that may create lead oxybromide deposit-induced pre-ignition were found in these engines. The Bureau concluded that engines that were operated at lean fuel-air mixtures during climb, and towards best economy mixtures during cruise flight, were more likely to show signs of such deposit-induced pre-ignition than those engines operated at full rich mixture during climb and at best power mixture during cruise.

 

On 30 October 2000 ATSB released recommendations about the risks of detonation and lean running and in relation to the desirability of life jackets and other life-saving equipment on smaller passenger aircraft flying over water. Today, we release further recommendations to:

 

• the US FAA in relation to engine deposits that may cause pre-ignition;
   
   
  
• the US FAA and the engine manufacturer on the use of anti-galling compounds between connecting rod bearing inserts and housings during engine assembly;
   
   
  
• CASA in relation to high power piston engine reliability more generally; and
   
   
  
• CASA in relation to providing guidance to pilots on ditching.
   
   
  

 

 

While there were deficiencies with the Whyalla Airlines safety culture and gaps with the extent of the regulator's surveillance of the operator, neither were significant accident factors.

 

No-one should be blamed for this accident, but if the lessons from it are learned, both in Australia and internationally, some good will have come from the tragic deaths of eight people."

An interesting report and one which was largely discredited. It was a classic mistake of forming a theory and then going about proving it instead of the correct method of finding out all the facts then drawing a conclusion. Read John Deakins article in The Pelicans Perch. "Whyalla - Junk Science?"

Seems the same culture still exists in the ATSB

 

 

[silvercity]

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, the fickle finger of fate cares not.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Twin fuel pump failure in it means they were really out of luck

Maybe a dead one already only found at the changeover?

 

 

[cooperplace]

how many fuel pumps are there on Navajo? Single engine planes have 2; would a twin have 4? The preliminary report suggests that it has 4. All 4 failing at once?

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

how many fuel pumps are there on Navajo? Single engine planes have 2; would a twin have 4? The preliminary report suggests that it has 4. All 4 failing at once?

I have never flown a Navajo, but the preliminary FAA report on the accident infers 6. In describing the parts recovered for further analysis, the report lists: "The left engine gear driven fuel pump, the right engine driven fuel pump, the right boost pump, and the right emergency pump . . . ." It does not mention a left boost pump or right emergency pump. If there were only one boost pump and one emergency pump, why specify "right"? Ergo, the report lists 4 parts retained and seemingly infers 2 others existed. Perhaps someone on the thread has Navajo time. My only Piper twin time was in the Apache which was quite a different airplane. My nearest experience has been Cessna 402, 404, 414 (and 310, 337, although they're quite different). I expect that the fuel systems differ significantly, Cessna to Piper. I know their fuel systems differ significantly in singles (C150, 172, 182, 210 compared to PA28, PA38).

 

Discussion lately in the local pilot community has focused on the unfeathered props, and questions about how much fuel remained in which tanks, what was the setting on the fuel selector, and what was the position of the gear and flaps. Other questions have been raised about in-type training, recency in emergency procedures training, and the sequence of use of fuel tanks in a Navajo. We await the FAA/NTSB reports, although the FAA preliminary report has been released.

 

The preliminary FAA report is attached.

 

Locally we continue to discuss this tragic event not out of idle curiosity but in an effort to learn from it. Experiences of others sometimes can provide real learning opportunities. We await further word following testing of the components and accident analysis by the NTSB.

 

KTCL crash.pdf

 

KTCL crash.pdf

 

KTCL crash.pdf

[Guest SrPilot]

It does not mention a left boost pump or right emergency pump.

Obviously, it should say "left emergency pump."