Need a running costs schedule/spreadsheet/etc for a small ultralight.

[gimballock]

Hi all,

 

So, I'm entertaining the idea of owning an aircraft.

 

I created a basic spreadsheet of rough costings which, when averaged based on projected number of usable hours per year, came up with an hourly rate.

 

I was using rough figures based on engine type, hangarage cost, insurance, maintenance etc.

 

I presented this to my CFI for comment, and he totally tore it apart.

 

He presented a rough, bottom-up approach, which took into account things like re-skinning a fabric aircraft etc and even depreciation of value of the aircraft and, even running costs of my car to drive to the airport.

 

Given that my aim at this time is a small, single-seat aircraft, perhaps open-cockpit, Rotax 277/447/503/etc (basically the cheapest piece of rag-and-tube that I can get my butt skyward on a regular basis!), can anyone provide me with a spreadsheet template to calculate running costs of such an aircraft?

 

Also, can anyone who runs such an aircraft give me an example of a reasonable hourly rate to run such an aircraft?

 

By the way, I am in Australia, so I would need it to be in, or easily converted to, $AUD and metric.

 

Many thanks,

 

Gimballock.

 

 

[spacesailor]

GIMBALLOCK

 

Sounds like your going to a weight-shift trike,

 

They seem to be at the lower end of the price range!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[gimballock]

I've considered trikes and PPGs and if someone said to me, "I'm from the future. If you don't learn to fly a parachute with a lawnmower engine strapped to your back, you'll never fly again!", then I'd do it.

 

Until it's clear that this is my only option, I'd like to still consider the stick-and-rudder path.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

An interesting process. I often wonder whether people go through the same calculations for boat or motor cycle ownership?

 

I'd suggest that if cash is that tight that you need to go through this process you should keep renting. I've owned and operated many aircraft over the years and it's simply not viable from a $ point of view if your not going to fly 100+ hours per year. Syndicates can make this work, but lay out the ground rules (in writing) before you start and charge yourselves an hourly rate. Each member contributes equally towards the fixed costs on a monthly basis, each member who flies the aircraft pays an amount to cover fuel, oil, tyres, etc (stuff that's costs when the aircraft is flying). Review / adjust the charges at least annually.

 

Here's a spreadsheet that doesn't look too bad to me:

 

http://sharemyaircraft.com/documents/hourlycosts.xls

 

 

[gimballock]

Thanks, Roundsounds.

 

That's a good answer to my question.

 

 

[crashley]

• Fixed costs rego, insurance, yearly maintenance, hangarage,
   
   
  

 

 

variable costs. fuel, oil, filters, breakdown maintenance etc

 

I believe things like depreciation etc are really only for businesses, and to even include running your car to the airport is taking it way too far

 

also be wary relying on the cost per hour because the more you fly the less per hour it will be and the less you fly the more per hour

 

 

[spacesailor]

Hi Roundsounds

 

I've just had a quick go with the spreadsheet, I think I'll try to send it to you as I don't fly, but put the known facts in, also don't know the cost of an RAA inspection/

 

It makes this the cheapest that I know of.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[gimballock]

Yes, Crashley, I thought the car and depreciation of the aircraft a bit close to a business model than simply financing an expensive hobby.

 

Considering all the aircraft I see sitting in hangars, covered in bird poo and cobwebs, I seriously doubt that they finance their hobby with a business model approach.

 

I could be wrong, but towards the end, I got the feeling that he was ultimately trying to dissuade me from purchasing in favour of continuing to fly his aircraft!

 

 

[spacesailor]

Hi, I hope gimballock & |Roundsound have received my post to you?.

 

Always thought a do it your-self home handy man type approach would be far better to to get a understanding of how things work,

 

Even chop my own prop's, just because I can afford $50 of wood + the cost of good glue, if it's no good it's not a $500 throw-away.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[gimballock]

Thanks for your spreadsheet, Spacesailor.

 

These seem a lot more reasonable and closer to what I had imagined.

 

What type of aircraft were you basing it on?

 

Gimballock.

 

 

[waraton]

My wife and I have an arrangement that works well, I don't ask how much her hair doos cost and she doesn't ask about how much I spend on flying. Luckily no spreadsheet required. For the most part it has to cost what it costs.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, my flying costs nothing cos the wife pays the bills.

 

 

[facthunter]

Has you wife got a sister? Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Hi Gimballock.

 

Just my Hummelbird , but a lot of the information is from the other flying Hummelbirds .

 

Like the one that has 61 miles to the gallon (4litre's) written on it's side, My own static run, consumption of twenty minutes per lite.

 

But have no idea of the price of an annual inspection, guessed the fuel price of $2.00 a litre,($1.89). no paint or canvas as it's polished , no hangar fee's as trailered.

 

spacesailor

 

 

 

[Hargraves]

Hi and welcome gimballock I think your quest would be better served on a forum for GA aircraft owners as we recreatioal flyers are depressed enought by the always increasing costs of our hobby without seeking ourselves to (rub it in) via actual accounting Cheers Hargraves

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nice looking lil Hummelbird space. What engine does it have? It looks pretty fast.

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Hi,

 

Sport Pilot (June 15) has an article on owning your own which gives an idea of the breakdown costs to be included.

 

Classic on the driving, would you not be driving your car out to the airfield regardless if you own or hire??

 

 

[spacesailor]

Hi Bruce T

 

The 61mpg hummelbird is an American, has the standard two cylinder motor, hence the low fuel consumption, VNE is 140MPH cruise about the 100 mph,the three Wheeler's are a bit slower of course, but when you've learned to handle it with ease, it can have the main's reversed & remove the nose wheel to go tail drag er.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[gimballock]

I've seen a Hummel up close and I think that something about it captures my ideal type of aircraft - sleek, teardrop shaped, but small and simple.

 

Just not entirely sure if I would fit into one - I am 6'2" and about 95kg.

 

As it is, any running cost spreadsheet would need a field for "Annual cost of Chiropractor/Physiotherapy/etc bills for my aching back!' as I can only fit in whilst slouched or hunched over!

 

If you're from Toongabbie, where do you fly? Wedderburn? Camden? The Oaks?

 

Cheers,

 

Gimballock.

 

 

[gimballock]

Classic on the driving, would you not be driving your car out to the airfield regardless if you own or hire??

Yes, I thought it was a bit of a stretch.

 

I've been driving 200 miles out to the back of nowhere every weekend to chase my flying dreams since my late teens.

 

(When you get into gliding, often you have little choice!)

 

But consider, I have a choice:

 

Drive 120km to the airfield which has *very* cheap hangarage (for owning) and reduced private hire fees (for non-owning) or;

 

Drive 5 mins up the road where hangarage is normal-to-expensive (for owning) and more expensive aircraft hire fees (for non-owning).

 

If I was to fly every weekend, a 240km round trip would add up to be more than the cost of hangarage locally.

 

(The fuel in my little rollerskate is only about 15-20 bucks for the trip but I'd be racking up the kms on the car and go through tyres 3 times as fast.)

 

But you are correct - If my intention is to drastically increase my flying frequency, the choice is the same!

 

Good point, Kiwi!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Realistically, owning an aircraft you want it at home so that you can work on it. Most of your hangars are basic affairs and aren't setup for maintenance.

 

 

[waraton]

A hangar is my ultimate man cave. There are people who love to talk about aircraft at hangars. It is a lie to tell her (or him) "I'm only going out for an hour/couple of hours/until lunchtime". When we can we hang around them all day, we can't help ourselves, we love it. This applies even if you don't own an aircraft or fly or live in the same town as the hangar. They are called them hangars because we are suppose to hang around them!

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I would like one by the French seaside, it would be a cote hangar.

 

 

[Narrabeenrick]

I'm sorry, I just don't get in when people get on here and say stuff like " if you don't fly more than 100hrs it's not worth owning a plane" Call me naive or whatever. If you are that OCD about drawing up spread sheets and including engine replacements factoring in items that may cost $100 3yrs down the line, Holy crap just admit you are a tight arse and forgot about owning a plane. If I need a tyre 3yrs down the track I'll fork out the $100 then.

 

IF I EVER was lucky enough to clock up 2000hrs in a plane I'd be ecstatic ! even if you did manage to fly your 100hrs a year that's 20 yrs down the track before an engine change!!!!

 

I just down get it SORRY !

 

I would like to build a kit myself, I've looked into them, the one I'd like is the Zenith 750 CruZer with the folding wings. That way I can trailer it home. 1. for security 2. for storage and save on hangar { $1500 per quarter, that is price I was told } and 3. So I can look after it myself.

 

Where in you spread sheets do you factor in convenience, security and ease of maintenance? where in your spread sheets is piece of mind knowing that your own aircraft is well maintained no fool before hand has damaged the aircraft and your the next sucker on there!

 

It's all we and go to tell people it cheaper to hire an aircraft than own one , but hire and fly it from where? I've asked on this forum before and no one could help me. I'm Ra aus low hrs Just completed my 2nd solo, when it comes time to hiring and aircraft to build up my hrs, where do I go? Can't do Bankstown or Camden, The oaks is an 1hr45 or even longer if there is traffic, there is Warnervale {1hr 5mins } but no one hires up there. So what are my options apart from owning! and if owning cost more than hiring so be it, In reality what is the major cost of ownership if I have the aircraft at home, and I do the week long engine course at either Jabiru or Rotax? rego and insurance? And here is my naive bit ! so Am I wrong, Not being a smart arse, I'm open to ideas and info, I want to learn from experience that you guys can provide.

 

Cheers

 

Rick

 

PS: I'm sure I'm going to get beat up over my comments :{

 

 

[spacesailor]

Not by me Rick, good argument for ownership.

 

Gimballock! the Hummelbird's too small for you but the newer ultracruiser will fit your size, you'll have to check the hummel websight, or w3.flyhummel.c for the plans to suit.

 

spacesailor