Admin Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 As we know EFATO stands for "Engine Failure After Take Off" and is referred to an engine failure while climbing after take off. However, the word "After" is missused as isn't all engine failures in the air after take off? Wonder who came up with this, better still, why am I posting this...well it is a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Maybe to differentiate it from an engine failure that happens in the roll before wheels leave the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subsonic Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I always thought it meant Engine Failure At Takeoff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I always thought it meant Engine Failure At Takeoff. That's what it means but it generally doesn't say that. Once you have departed the circuit an engine failure is "in flight". Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 EFOTO would certainly be a slightly better description - Engine Failure On Takeoff. However, the word AFTER is used, to define an engine failure after the aircraft has left the ground, and is actually flying - to differentiate from an engine failure when still rolling, and V1 hasn't been reached. Maybe the abbreviation needs to be expanded to EFIATO - Engine Failure Immediately After Take Off. However, that abbreviation sounds too much like an Italian car model failure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Shouldn't it be EFITO or EFOTO or EFDTO as in the i for "in", o for "on" or d for "during"...how boring of me...I must get a life 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 From this dictionary of Aviation Terms: Aviation Terms / Directory EFATO Engine Failure At Take-Off (JAR-FCL) And 'at' is probably the best word because the term needs to cover, as well, engine failure during the take-off roll which might, of course, mean that take-off will happen anyway. By the way, Wiki explains that "The JAR-FCL is the Joint Aviation Requirements Flight Crew License, an international designation of member states pilots' (and other related aviation) licenses." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Surely, common sense indicates that this should be a description of the period during which an engine failure requires an 'extreme' emergency response: a 'one-shot' decision to (hopefully) mitigate disastrous consequences. An engine failure before V1, means you stay on the ground.. An engine failure at any cruising altitude, means (in our class of aircraft), that you should be in a position to undertake a 'forced landing'. To me, an EFATO occurs in that regime where a safe 'turn-back' is not possible, and nor is there a selection process of viable forced landing sites available. In crude terms: it is the: 'oh sh!t, THERE, make it happen right' situation. For a recent example: landing on the Golf Course beside Bankstown. Or in the pond therein. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Sure, it's only a term. That which we call EFATO by any other name will need a BIGPUSH immediately - if not sooner! Or, as in the case of that recent Cirrus, a BIGPULL. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Or depending on the height in my Auster, a big pull then a big push then a big roll upright and a flare ..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 My understanding of EFATO is after the wheels leave the ground and before yo reach 500 feet, if it happens during this period you select somewhere 10 deg either side of the nose and do your best. An engine failure after this point you have far more options. Aldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Shouldn't it be EFITO or EFOTO or EFDTO as in the i for "in", o for "on" or d for "during"...how boring of me...I must get a life WHAT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ! ! ! ! ! FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE MAN. . .YOU ARE THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATOR OF THE PREMIER AVIATION BLOGSITE IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE ! . . . . . YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE TIME. . . . . for a life. . . . . Thank you for what you do Ian.. . . AND for putting up with wankpuffins like me. Phil. X 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 In the big planes we just call it what it is. "Engine failure at V1". "Engine failure at Vr". "Engine failure between V2 and green dot". "Engine failure in the cruise". "Engine failure on approach". Rather than trying to squish it all into one definition. It's also about the only terminology we don't have a TLA or FLA or SLA for, which is kind of refreshing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 In little aeroplanes too per CASR Part 61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 In our stuff it's fortunately simplified. If you are on the ground, you aren't going anywhere, so stop the thing short of the fence. If you are airborne, you have to find a place to safely(more or less) land it. That possibility includes (sometimes) landing straight ahead on the remaining runway. Landing ahead with a moderate turn for into wind or more suitable site, or the contentious one, return for landing. EFATO is too general to have any meaning in the above context. In cruise you just have a bit more time, and an area you are less familiar with. Partial failure should be dealt with too. On the ground if the donk isn't delivering full power don't expect it to fix itself. Pull the throttle and get it checked.. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Have to agree about landing into wind is possible.I had an engine out on climb out( after a dummy approach with a tailwind) around 300', I was off the runway centreline deliberately, as it takes me over a nice open paddock. Knowing I had a good tailwind component, I maintained my airspeed and immediately started a right turn, and was just rolling my wings level just prior to touchdown. The turn of about 170 degrees both got me a nice slow touchdown and lined up with the furrows. I could have landed straight ahead touching down in soft soil at around 60kts ground speed, instead I had around 30. Mind you if I looked like running out of altitude, I could have levelled the wings and landed with no obstacles any time through the turn. Okay, since we've moved on from the term to the thing-itself, this post from M61A1 caught my eye a few weeks back. Especially the part "Mind you if I looked like running out of altitude, I could have levelled the wings and landed with no obstacles any time through the turn." I thought it made a lot of sense - a 3rd way between the Impossible Turn and the Possibly Possible Turn positions. It might be called the continuously assessed and safe upwind turn or CAASUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 As we know EFATO stands for "Engine Failure After Take Off" ... the word "After" is misused as isn't all engine failures in the air after take off? Wonder who came up with this, better still, why am I posting this...well it is a question Every flight that is airborne needs to land eventually: perhaps it should have been named EFBL (Engine Failure Before Landing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I always thought it meant Engine Failure At Takeoff. All references I consulted tonight calls it after takeoff, not at takeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 EFARTO...engine failure after recent takeoff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Often leading to an OSH1T moment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'm thinking that maybe if people put as much thought into their flying as they did arguing about definitions, we might have a lot fewer fatalities. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 EFATO easily fooled at take off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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