In defence of the RFDS. . . . .

[Phil Perry]

I've flown in a couple of Drovers. Um. Not DH's finest design. For some reason, the one in Oz had a massive dihedral built into the stabiliser. I don't know why some were built or modified that way, but it wallowed along in a horrible tail-down attitude. Here is a pic of one such. Anyone know why?[ATTACH=full]45585[/ATTACH]

That's interesting IBob,. . .the elderly ex-ww2 pilot feller I mentioned ( in Darwin ) in a previous post on this thread said . . . ."and that bloody tailplane. . . ." he didn't go into detail. At that particular time, I had never had a close look at one. . . Does anyone remember what engines were used in the 20 machines that were built ? . . . from old Flying Doctor TV shows, they looked like Gypsy Majors, . . . but the last time I saw a show, was back in about 1964 ! . . . I should have read the wikipedia post, a chunk of which I posted here a in a little more detail ! . . .

 

 

[IBob]

I saw one with Gypsy Majors (and no starters!), and one with, I think, small Lycomings.

 

Let's face it...it was a throwback: fixed undercarriage, fuselage narrowed to pilot seat only (no space for copilot controls), and relied heavily, I believe, on the blast from the nose fan to work those tail areas.

 

Kudos to the RFDS if that was what they had to work with.

 

 

[red750]

It's said that many people in Australia commute further to work than many pommies travel on their annual holiday. Geelong to Melbourne, Katoomba to Sydney, Mooloolaba to Brissie, and so on. In the outback, the "Corner Store" can be a cuppla hundred km away.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

To improve longitudinal stability on flight , DHA designed a modification which extended the horizontal tailplane by 24 inches and giving it a 14 degree dihedral. This was designated Drover Mk.3A, and in 1962 the two Broken Hill flying doctor aircraft were again the first to be rebuilt.

 

GEOFF GOODALL'S AVIATION HISTORY SITE

 

(still doesnt explain why the dihedral)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

It's said that many people in Australia commute further to work than many pommies travel on their annual holiday. Geelong to Melbourne, Katoomba to Sydney, Mooloolaba to Brissie, and so on. In the outback, the "Corner Store" can be a cuppla hundred km away.

Yeah mate,. . .but we all know that his is a load of bollox really don't we ? . . . . many folk that I know cmmute daily to London by air, to London City Airport. . . others I know commute to Belfast and Dublin on a daily basis YES,. . I realise that this isn't the norm, but commuting in the UK has been badly affected by the fact that the railways charge stupidly, ridiculously high fares, where a person who lives only 40 miles out of London, has to pay up to £3,500 per annum to commute on a daily basis, when anyone with a brain could see that this is total insanity. . .not only this, they have to stand up for the entire journey, as the rail operators are a bunch of totally incompetent, overpaid a$$holes and don't put enough coaches on the trains to accommodate the KNOWN number of passengers who will be travelling that route. . . . .

 

The European continental trains are different,. . .they are better,. . .faster, and if there is a large demand, then they fill it by adding capacity, and at around 30% of the cost of travel in the UK. This is something which will be forced to change very soon, as people are getting sick of it. . . .

 

I fact we are getting fairly sick of the whole shebang here. . . .the pot has almost boiled. . . watch this space. . .

 

 

[dutchroll]

I remember 20 years ago being shocked by the price of an inter-city train from London. The tube seems ok, but try heading out past the tube limits and your wallet will be substantially lighter!

 

I'm guessing it has only got worse.

 

 

[IBob]

To improve longitudinal stability on flight , DHA designed a modification which extended the horizontal tailplane by 24 inches and giving it a 14 degree dihedral. This was designated Drover Mk.3A, and in 1962 the two Broken Hill flying doctor aircraft were again the first to be rebuilt.GEOFF GOODALL'S AVIATION HISTORY SITE

(still doesnt explain why the dihedral)

Apparently they were inclined to 'wander', which I guess means they wouldn't settle and fly straight. Perhaps the propwash from that little front fan was unsettled in it's path over the fuselage?

 

Given the tail-down attitude I experienced, I wonder if they altered the angle of attack on the stabiliser when they did the other mods?

 

 

[IBob]

Hmmm. It sez 'ere the Drover was designed to be 'less refined' than the Dove...I expect that meant the pilot didn't need to know words like 'spiffing'???

 

de havilland | 1948 | 0562 | Flight Archive

 

 

[facthunter]

The original airstrip was right in the town of Alice Springs. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

How can the stabiliser effect the attitude in flight you guys?. It's because the thing is flying too slow, or the design angle of attack of the mainplanes is wrong. The Engines were the same as the Chipmunk DeHavilland Gypsy10 Mk2 which in original form had cartridge starters, converted to electric later. It was probably underpowered with 3 x 145 HP engines with fixed pitched metal Fairey Reed props. Nev

 

 

[IBob]

How can the stabiliser effect the attitude in flight you guys?. It's because the thing is flying too slow, or the design angle of attack of the mainplanes is wrong. The Engines were the same as the Chipmunk DeHavilland Gypsy10 Mk2 which in original form had cartridge starters, converted to electric later. It was probably underpowered with 3 x 145 HP engines with fixed pitched metal Fairey Reed props. Nev

Good point. Presumably nobody had explained that to the aircraft in question?

 

The first one I met was swung by hand on all 3 props. Which was a comedy show in itself: as I recall, they got the third one going only to have the second one stop...and so on.

 

And that was just the start of the fun...

 

 

[facthunter]

Maybe they were saving the battery. I don't know. All the ones I flew were in the DHC-1 and we still hand swung them most of the time. The electric starter wasn't very convincing. Nev

 

 

[IBob]

Maybe they were saving the battery. I don't know. All the ones I flew were in the DHC-1 and we still hand swung them most of the time. The electric starter wasn't very convincing. Nev

That sounds about right: the hand starting wasn't very convincing either...)

 

 

[facthunter]

They were inclined to soot up the plugs, idling or descending for long periods. They ran rich on the ground. It's the way the carb was set. I have a mate who did time on the Drover s with the RFDS .Nev

 

 

[IBob]

They were inclined to soot up the plugs, idling or descending for long periods. They ran rich on the ground. It's the way the carb was set. I have a mate who did time on the Drover s with the RFDS .Nev

That's interesting.

I know we once tried for a mass jump from formated Tiger Moths, but couldn't get higher than 3500ft: one of the aircraft was wired full rich, and carried on like something trying to limp home from the Western Front once we got over 3000...

 

 

[facthunter]

I thought I was the only one silly enough to drop a person out of a Tiger Moth. You crazy people. Yeah some had the mixture control removed, but the 1 C was a smoother running motor than the 10 Mk 2. We always encouraged a burst of power every few thousand feet on a power off descent, on a Chipmunk, just to be sure the motor was still available. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

How do you drop skydivers from Tiger Moths? Seatbelt off and aileron roll?

 

 

[IBob]

How do you drop skydivers from Tiger Moths? Seatbelt off and aileron roll?

Nope, jumper climbs out and steps off pretty much as he would on the ground. Easy with modern gear, a bit more of a struggle back when: the gear was so bulky, they would put multiple cushions in and the jumper would sit sideways, with his legs hanging out.

 

What I always wanted to do, but never did, was the old style barnstormer business of climbing out along the wing, then pulling the ripcord and getting dragged off by the opening canopy.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's an advance on what was done when I did it. Throttle back to idle and slow up, and diver lifts up holding struts under fuel tank and steps out much as if getting out on the ground. Standing on the wing doesn't impress me and the blocking of the airflow makes flying the thing difficult especially as getting it as slow as is safe is normal to make it easier for the jumper. There was no instruction manual so it was suck it and see. Just carrying ONE isn't very economical. It was just to see if it could be done in case there was a "demand" at a show for it. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I thought I was the only one silly enough to drop a person out of a Tiger Moth. You crazy people. Yeah some had the mixture control removed, but the 1 C was a smoother running motor than the 10 Mk 2. We always encouraged a burst of power every few thousand feet on a power off descent, on a Chipmunk, just to be sure the motor was still available. Nev

Whilst carrying out some glider tugging with the 'Chippy', it was adviseable to warm the engine regularly during descents, to prevent cracking the cylinders by rapid cooling. . ., something suffered also by a couple of the Pawnees we used. . . .

 

 

[IBob]

That's an advance on what was done when I did it. Throttle back to idle and slow up, and diver lifts up holding struts under fuel tank and steps out much as if getting out on the ground. Standing on the wing doesn't impress me and the blocking of the airflow makes flying the thing difficult especially as getting it as slow as is safe is normal to make it easier for the jumper. There was no instruction manual so it was suck it and see. Just carrying ONE isn't very economical. It was just to see if it could be done in case there was a "demand" at a show for it. Nev

I don't know if you even could climb out along a Tiger wing without damage, Nev. And i agree, they don't fly too well once you're out there, even just standing next to the fuselage seems to have a considerable effect. We only tried relative work once, but the formation (5 Tigers!) fell apart as soon as we began clambering out. You get daft stuff like that at airshows...or used to...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

[facthunter]

There's only the inner reinforced surface you can stand on but I never like putting much load on it. If you slipped you would smash the trailing edge no doubt. Nev