Electronic Fuel Injection for recreational engines

[ZULU1]

Whoops South African words

 

We call pick up trucks "Bakkies" sorry !!

 

Paul

 

 

[Big Kev]

Thread from the dead.........

 

As part of my pre-retirement therapy, I'm in the process of designing a 200 kw engine dyno.

 

I have some mule ford and holden 6's that will initially be abused, leading into work on an EFI VW, and a 360 hr 582.

 

Searching for EFI on a 582 has not been very fruitful. If anybody out there has knowledge of this conversion or ideas on feasibility, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

Cheers

 

Kevin

 

 

[Methusala]

As I have reported I drove a VP-2 for 550hrs behind a fuel injected 2180 VW using a Halltech ecu and a single Bosch 009 distributor with no problems. No need for heated induction air. Very smooth operation. Don

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I was told by some friends that went to Oshkosh this year saw the Rotec injector body that a guy has fitted to his 912ULS apparently performs incredibly well and great fuel economy as well.... The only issue I believe is you have to make up your own inlet manifolds

 

 

[Powerin]

Thread from the dead.........Searching for EFI on a 582 has not been very fruitful. If anybody out there has knowledge of this conversion or ideas on feasibility, I'd be happy to hear them.

Not knowing a great deal about 2 strokes and for my own curiosity.....if you had fuel injection on a 582 you would no longer have oil mixture running through the crankcase? Just fresh air. So could you convert it to a conventional (splash?) sump lubrication? If you had direct injection you could start injecting fuel after the air charge came in and the exhaust port was closed and stop most of the pollution problems caused by unburnt fuel/oil escaping through the exhaust as the fuel charge was forced into the cylinder. I guess you could bypass the whole crankcase pressurisation thing by using a turbo or blower?

 

Just thinking aloud. Is any of this possible or does it happen already?

 

 

[Big Kev]

Don,

 

The injected VW you had was what prompted my direction. I gather the VP finally succumbed to the weather? You managing to fly out of anywhere nearby atm?

 

Powerin,

 

My initial thoughts are that the rotary valve is nothing different to a 'normal' inlet valve, but my past experience leads me to believe there may be other timing events to be considered.

 

The motor is a Mod 90 with oil injection, so that side is taken care of. It now carries GSXR1000 throttle bodies (to set these up in a dimentional sense). The bings will go back on for baseline, and initial pipe, work.

 

I'm aiming to use Camira EFI on the VW, and whatever comes up (maybe Megasquirt fuel only) for the 582.

 

Cheers

 

Kevin

 

 

[Yenn]

As well as the Rotec there is the AeroVee, I think thats what it is called, much cheaper and built by the Sonex people. I looked at it recently and the ost was about $230 for model suited to a Jab engine. A friend has a new Sonex fitted with the AeroVee, just waiting for it to be started for the first time any day now.

 

There was a post years ago on this forum from someone who was running a Jab with fuel injection. He gave a bit of info and the controlling unit was from one of the aftermarket manufacturers. His background was engine design with Mitsubishi and he explained that making the fuel map was not for the un initiated. I kept a copy of his post, but won't post it here without his permission.

 

 

[Yenn]

What I called AeroVee is incorrect. It should be Aeroinjector.

 

 

[gandalph]

What I called AeroVee is incorrect. It should be Aeroinjector.

The aeroinjector (aerocarb) by Sonex, and the similar product by Rotec are not electronic fuel injection. The are throttle body type injectors

 

See: http://www.rotectbi.com/

 

and http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/aerocarb/

 

 

[Brett]

The aeroinjector and rotec arn't really comparable in the same sentence. The aeroinjector is in my opinion is almost impossible to set correctly and leaks fuel if not operated correctly and the rotec bolts on and runs as advertised. I have had both TBI's on my plane.

 

 

[AVOCET]

The aeroinjector (aerocarb) by Sonex, and the similar product by Rotec are not electronic fuel injection. The are throttle body type injectorsSee: http://www.rotectbi.com/

 

and http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/aerocarb/

Ive fitted and flown the SDS , simple digital systems MPI on a j3300 and use the rotec TBI as the throttle body and a backup fuel system.

 

Mike

 

 

[Brett]

Ive fitted and flown the SDS , simple digital systems MPI on a j3300 and use the rotec TBI as the throttle body and a backup fuel system.Mike

With both systems fitted which system do you find works best?

 

Does the SDS injection have any clear benefits over the Rotec Tbi?

 

 

[facthunter]

Just a comment. A single point injector would have little advantage over something like a Rotec TBI. The last mentioned is about as simple as you could get. Multi point gets over the uneven fuel distribution problem. Multiple carburetters would do the same although not quite as practical. (Too bulky and costly, but was often used on earlier race cars effectively). Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

With both systems fitted which system do you find works best?Does the SDS injection have any clear benefits over the Rotec Tbi?

The SDS is superior , the TBI , in my opinion works better than the carb .

 

The SDS needs expert instalation to be reliable over time .

 

The TBI take a bit more instalation planning to have a " good set up ".

 

If it's attempted by less than capable folk without the right gear can give issues ,

 

The P/Comp carby , is the easiest and cheepest option and has proven itself in survive .

 

Once youv flown with the SDS mulit piont and feel the smoothnes, the others sound and feel harsher by comparison. , even less vibration .

 

The fuel economy with the MPI has seen prelim . fuel consumption figures between the TBI/SDS 23. Lph : 19 lph.

 

Mike

 

,

 

 

[facthunter]

Your worst cylinder has to be right so with a spread you are wasting fuel on the others which are richer than needed. Injection should rectify that problem. (Multipoint). You fella's are all digital but I believe a simple manual control with fuel flow meter to set it, can do the job as well. It's not a motor car that has to be driveable at all revs . The system I describe is tuneable at each cylinder. Not in the air, but once it is done it stays pretty much constant as to distribution.. Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

Have you checked the SDS ( simple digital systems ) web site , good read and been going strong about 10 years .

 

Mike

 

 

[facthunter]

No but I've had a bit of trouble with a few cars over the years. I'm also a great believer in manual leaning and mechanical systems for aircraft.. (not in a car though). I'm a great fan of modern engine management systems in them, but the circumstances are very different.

 

I don't doubt the engines will run well but I want control of it thanks. (with a fall back mode and I know you could have that with the digital programmed stuff). Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

Have you checked the SDS ( simple digital systems ) web site , good read and been going strong about 10 years .Mike

[AVOCET]

The SDS has a manual mixture control ,its not an automotive design , web sites realy worth a look .

 

Mike

 

 

[facthunter]

OK... Give me time to do it right. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

With TBI unit there you fall back to full manual mixture and no elect needed operations

 

Some even use original carb as throttle body.

 

 

[Oscar]

Some (too short yet to make definite conclusions, though) test running of a J2200 in a test cell environment where a number of the normal installation problems (especially uneven cylinder head cooling) are eliminated is starting to suggest in fairly strong terms that a considerable amount of the Jab. uneven mixture problems may be due to the installation upstream of the carby i.e. the airbox and the scat tube air delivery hose. More investigation will be undertaken before conclusions will be drawn but so far it seems a promising line of enquiry.

 

 

[fred cenko]

I guess everybody to there own,But then it could open up a whole can of worms,where you would need to take your troubled engine to a rip off mechanic to fix the complex engine.I

 

l still love working on my simple trusty affordable 503,after all isnt recreational flying meant to be that way.Just my opinion.