E&LAAA

[Ron5335]

Can't see it myself, would require a huge rewrite of the regulations to make it legal.

There's more to here than just re-writng regulations at stake here...........

 

CASA has come under severe criticism lately, and has had continual accusations thrown at it regarding being responsible for the falling registrations and a dying aviation industry.

 

Easy Fix. Bring in a new self administering organisation and let the people who join it use VH Rego's. Then CASA can report back to the Govt. that

 

Aircraft rego's are rising sharply so the industry must be thriving under their new changes and approach. Where in reality, there are no extra aircraft and other than "Duck Shoving" their liability onto the new organisation, very few changes. .

 

With Govt polliies inter twined with Bureaucrats.... Do you really expect anything good to come out of it, other than another episode of Yes Minister ?????

 

 

[jetjr]

I don't think casa want owner maintenance at all.

 

Builders might be only exception

 

Marap was the fall back position in this debate

 

 

[facthunter]

CASA can't even keep CEO's. They have consistently shown they don't " GET" the U/L type of aviation . It doesn't suit their approach to exercising "AUTHORITY" with a points and fines system based on absolute liability where if you go to court you face an adversary with unlimited funding. Nev

 

 

[kasper]

I don't think casa want owner maintenance at all.Builders might be only exception

Marap was the fall back position in this debate

Jetr you are confusing two very different systems

MARAP has nothing to do with owner maintenance - it is 100% about modification of a factory built airframe where a manufacturer no longer supports the airframe.

 

Owner maintenance is very different and applies to all airframes no matter where or who built them

 

 

[Yenn]

The way I see it ELAAA will be just about the same as RAAus in CASAs eyes. The rego will probably be VHE or maybe it is X followed by a number.

 

If you join up with them or to put it better, if you pay your money to them they will register your aircraft, if suitable, issue you with a pilot certificate if you have the right training, such as an existing RAAus certificate or have been trained by one of their accredited training organisations. Your certificate and rego will run for two years and you will have to comply with all the usual operational rules such as flight reviews and aircraft maintenance.

 

I am told that maintenance will be in accordance with Schedule 5. Get hold of CASA publication "Maintenance guide for operators" for a guide to its requirements. It is basicly what GA maintainers have to comply with and not much different from what RAAus requires.

 

One big difference from RAAus is that those who use ALAAA will not be part of a club, they will not have any say in the running of ELAAA, but they will also not have any financial requirements if ELAAA runs up big debts. I am not sure what the financial requirements of RAAus, members / shareholders are if RAAus gets into financial difficulties. I have been told that the shareholders could be responsible for RAAus debts, but that was not a legal opinion, so may be incorrect.

 

 

[coljones]

The way I see it ELAAA will be just about the same as RAAus in CASAs eyes. The rego will probably be VHE or maybe it is X followed by a number.If you join up with them or to put it better, if you pay your money to them they will register your aircraft, if suitable, issue you with a pilot certificate if you have the right training, such as an existing RAAus certificate or have been trained by one of their accredited training organisations. Your certificate and rego will run for two years and you will have to comply with all the usual operational rules such as flight reviews and aircraft maintenance.

I am told that maintenance will be in accordance with Schedule 5. Get hold of CASA publication "Maintenance guide for operators" for a guide to its requirements. It is basicly what GA maintainers have to comply with and not much different from what RAAus requires.

 

One big difference from RAAus is that those who use ALAAA will not be part of a club, they will not have any say in the running of ELAAA, but they will also not have any financial requirements if ELAAA runs up big debts. I am not sure what the financial requirements of RAAus, members / shareholders are if RAAus gets into financial difficulties. I have been told that the shareholders could be responsible for RAAus debts, but that was not a legal opinion, so may be incorrect.

I understand that RAA Member Guarantee it is $1. Not much when it would cost RAA at least $5 to demand and process those guarantees. This is why it is a limited liability company.

Schedule 5 are the daily and periodical inspections - some can be done by pilots - a limited daily list. the 100 hourly inspections are done by AMEs or LAMEs.

 

Schedule 8 covers maintenance by pilots and is a limited list - if it is not on the list it is LAME work.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

How can they register aircraft VH? That's done by CASA and not something under the regulations they can pass out to another company to manage. Something doesn't smell right here, some factual information released by the company would be good or CASA?

 

 

[ave8rr]

How can they register aircraft VH? That's done by CASA and not something under the regulations they can pass out to another company to manage. Something doesn't smell right here, some factual information released by the company would be good or CASA?

Gliders are registered VH. Administered by the GFA incl issuing Pilot Licence/Certificates. E&LAAA would come under the same system. This is how it operates in UK, Canada, USA and NZ etc.

 

 

[kaz3g]

How can they register aircraft VH? That's done by CASA and not something under the regulations they can pass out to another company to manage. Something doesn't smell right here, some factual information released by the company would be good or CASA?

I'm as much in the dark as the next person but it seems to me that aircraft registration was where the big issues between RAA and CASA occurred a couple of years back. So my sixth sense tells me CASA will retain the responsibility for all VH regos (and the standards of the aircraft registered).

 

What I think they will do is allow approved organisations to control training, licensing, and possibly building and maintenance with respect to aircraft up to a specified weight/capacity. I also think the licence will be an RPL type with a wide suite of endorsements covering powered fixed wing, gliders, rotary wing, powered parachutes and the like.

 

But I'm just guessing like everyone else. Perhaps Keith can give us an insight to his recent discussions with the SASOs?

 

Kaz

 

 

[DonRamsay]

They each have different responsibilities . . .

As Directors, they will all have the same responsibilities even if individual directors choose to specialise in maintenance or training or . . . . As a director you are responsible to the shareholders and accountable to them and to ASIC.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I would hope they can do better with owner-maintenance than GA. The gliding scene was good for many years, although there has been some deterioration lately. For example, re-finishing work is now listed a "major repair" which means that it has to be done by a commercial operator at the cost of many thousands. ( $20,000 for a whole glider some years ago)

 

The reason for taking the job from amateurs was that a professional place not only did a bad job, they entered fictitious figures in the weight and balance documentation.

 

Of course, when you have dozens of amateurs having a go, there will be some bad jobs, but I have never heard of an amateur falsifying weights.

 

It is not strictly true that you have to be a commercial operator to put paint on a glider, but it is almost impossible for an amateur to get that rating.

 

In this case I think it was GFA, not CASA, behind the change.

 

 

[Yenn]

I do 100 hourly and annual inspections on my plane, legally and I am not a LAME or AME.

 

The builder can do the inspections in RAAus reg planes and the builder can do the same with GA planes if he has done the correct course.

 

Possibly the problem with painting gliders is related to the weight and balance. When an aircraft is painted it has to be re weighed and I am not sure who can do the weighing. When I built my last plane i got it registered just before CASA lowered the boom on who could and who couldn't do W & B.

 

Surely if a gliding club or glider owner re painted a glider it would be possible for it to be weighed by a CASA authorised person for less that 000' of dollars

 

 

[facthunter]

Surely the new E&LAA would have the same privileges as the SAAA. CASA would have to be even handed with the way it deals with all organisations. If it allows an easy access to the VH path it would improve the stats on VH decline. The "Training" might be by approval of certain flying establishments which would be listed . Why do it yourself if it's not absolutely needed? Nev

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

What you say Yenn is how it should be in my opinion. But it is the painting itself which is now classified as a "major repair".

 

If you were on good terms with the holder of a major repair rating, you probably could do some of the work yourself under his auspice. He will probably be a commercial operator though.

 

Weight and balance ratings are not so hard to attain, and most clubs would have a member with this rating.

 

 

[facthunter]

Has to be renewed every TWO years. Anyone with the accreditation no matter how often you do the process. (Currency). Nev

 

 

[cscotthendry]

FWIW: I was recently speaking with someone whose knowledge and opinions I regard highly, someone who used to be an RAA board member. This person had high praise for the people behind the ELAAA. That vote of confidence is good enough for me to investigate the merits of the venture.

 

 

[rankamateur]

I emailed an expression of interest a few days ago and they have already made contact with me.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I emailed an expression of interest a few days ago and they have already made contact with me.

Yes me to. Email back within about 30 minutes of registering an interest.

Website being created so more to come soon.

 

 

[Yenn]

I agree that painting a complete plane is a major repair. it has been that way for a long time and i believe the reasoning is that the W&B can be affected. it is just one of those things that come under major repair.