jetjr Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Yep good point,I guess they will need to offer customers something to justify expense. Wont risk of any poor outcomes, lie with company and directors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhysmcc Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Surely any change to the regulations to make ELAAA legit will follow CASAs normal NPRM so can't see it by November this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Surely any change to the regulations to make ELAAA legit will follow CASAs normal NPRM so can't see it by November this year. There won't be any NPRM or industry consultation as it's not required. The only approval required is that of CASA in respect of our manuals. Also Kaz is correct it is a company and there won't be membership only client subscriptions. We are not attempting to reinvent the wheel, our mandate is to give our customers the best service for their money with a very strong emphasis on safety and compliance. For far too long there has been a niche or hole in respect of certain aspects of sports aviation in this country and a lack of strict compliance in it's administration causing to arise therefrom a disgruntled movement of flyers concerned about their future. It is the goal of ELAAA to give those wanting or requiring it, an alternative and that's where we are headed. You will all be able to, or at least those that are interested, have the opportunity in due course, when unveiled see that which we are offering and how you can acquire it. I will say that in respect of our 2 year subscription, at this time, it will be $55 incl GST which some have already taken advantage of and which such funds are held at this time in a solicitors trust account until the company's approval to administer is received from CASA. We are not politicians, we are a Private Company and will not be prior to having all the boxes ticked disclosing anything until all is set in concrete and ready to be proceeded with. It would be totally irresponsible for us at this time to disclose all and sundry as there no doubt will be the need to tweak things possibly once CASA reverts to us. ELAAA CEO 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhysmcc Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Thanks for the info Rick, so what does this $55 get you. Are aircraft registered under current VH regulations or are you expecting some kind of change/approval to operate outside of the current regs (same with licensing)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Interesting. I thought the big disappointment with RAAus, according to KP, was that it was supposed to be a "Members Organisation" and it wasn't living up to that expectation? And yet E&LAAA starts out as a private company run for the benefit of a small number shareholders? No members at all to give input just customers to be serviced as the company sees fit.Pilots who fly under the RAAus banner have the right to direct the company. Pilots who fly with E&LAAA have no power over the company and would have to take any dissatisfaction to the ACCC. No need for pesky elections or general meetings. Very efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 .Pilots who fly under the RAAus banner have the right to direct the company. Ref Kasper's experience. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Ref Kasper's experience. Very unfair Turbo - on this one I can't decide on a response between agree, like or laugh ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The difference will be that RAAus members can run their company, but ELAAA clients will have no say in the running of the company. The big difference is that unsatisfied RAAus members can moan and groan, here and anywhere else, while ELAAA clients can vote with their money. Dont subscribe if you are not convinced you are getting your moneys worth. You can stick with RAAus, pay your money there and put up with the things you have long been complaining about. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The difference will be that RAAus members can run their company, but ELAAA clients will have no say in the running of the company. The big difference is that unsatisfied RAAus members can moan and groan, here and anywhere else, while ELAAA clients can vote with their money. Dont subscribe if you are not convinced you are getting your moneys worth. You can stick with RAAus, pay your money there and put up with the things you have long been complaining about. Until we know the scope and authority of the ELAAA administration it is all speculation. It may be that aircraft owners and pilots could be, merely, exchanging one form of slavery for another as the cost of going to a different administration might not be free or easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 We have bigger problems in Australia than the ones associated with RAAus. There's no way you have any certainty of your aviation future in a recreational sense without changes to CASA. Everyone knows things aren't right there. Nev 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Thanks for the info Rick, so what does this $55 get you. Are aircraft registered under current VH regulations or are you expecting some kind of change/approval to operate outside of the current regs (same with licensing)? All in good time. Those who have a genuine interest in a choice will in good time be able to view the whole picture and make a well informed decision. Those who only, for whatever reason, just want something or someone to annoy will have no effect on the provision to the flying community of a fresh new entity as their ramblings and waffle will only fall on deaf ears, they are just wasting their time. As for being a Company and employees and directors being in the position to receive a wage or recompense for their investment, I would hazard a guess and say that not too many people are going to work for nothing, it's a job which hopefully done well will bring something of great benefit to those who wish to use the products of the Company. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Interesting. I thought the big disappointment with RAAus, according to KP, was that it was supposed to be a "Members Organisation" and it wasn't living up to that expectation? And yet E&LAAA starts out as a private company run for the benefit of a small number shareholders? No members at all to give input just customers to be serviced as the company sees fit.Pilots who fly under the RAAus banner have the right to direct the company. Pilots who fly with E&LAAA have no power over the company and would have to take any dissatisfaction to the ACCC. No need for pesky elections or general meetings. Very efficient. And Mr Ramsay I think you have said it all. The pests will be weaned out leaving only those behind to do what really is the only thing they want to do namely fly without having interference constantly run with respect to their activity. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Thank you all that have shown an interest and emailed [email protected] You will all receive a reply in due course if you have not as of yet. My fellow directors are all working hard at pulling this all together to the point where we can give everyone the whole picture and not just a piecemeal lead up to it. I myself am a little preoccupied with university studies and exams. This is something I chose to take on when the decision was made to look at another administrative organisation in the aviation industry. In due course we will be along with the Company's proposed operational standards disclosing our CV's on the ELAAA web site, which at this time is still under construction. Thank you all for you interest and comments deemed to be constructive. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 The days of RAA are numbered as they have been going down the same path as GA for some considerable time & all of us know that GA in Gods Great Land of Australia is almost extinct. I was recently reading some old AOPA magazines of 40 years ago, even before RAA was formed & the dramas GA were experiencing with the aviation Authorities then were bad during those tumultuous years, & nothing seems to have changed except GA aviation has further deteriorated. Since RAA has & is going down the same path as GA has gone it is likely that RAA will self destruct in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 You won't fix the problem until the "cause " is modified. CASA. Every inquiry says so, and what happens ?Nothing. Nev 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 I have stripped the posts that were not specific to this topic and moved them into a new thread called Pseudo GA: Pseudo GA Now I want to make the opening post of this thread clearer and more specific. If you are a member/subscriber of ELAAA naturally you can comment on them, good or bad. If you are a shareholder of RAAus, again naturally you can comment on them, good or bad. BUT what you can NOT do is comment negatively on one that you are NOT a member/subscriber/shareholder etc of...is that much clearer now? One site member who has been continually warned against this has continued to do so and has been given a site suspension. This rule is to try and ensure a fair and level playing field for EVERYONE! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Thank you all that have shown an interest and emailed [email protected] You will all receive a reply in due course if you have not as of yet. My fellow directors are all working hard at pulling this all together to the point where we can give everyone the whole picture and not just a piecemeal lead up to it. I myself am a little preoccupied with university studies and exams. This is something I chose to take on when the decision was made to look at another administrative organisation in the aviation industry. In due course we will be along with the Company's proposed operational standards disclosing our CV's on the ELAAA web site, which at this time is still under construction. Thank you all for you interest and comments deemed to be constructive. Who is Alban Tafili? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Who is Alban Tafili? How did you dream that up ColJones.?? KP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Sieczkowski Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 How did you dream that up ColJones.??KP Your facebook account links to him in the 'contact info' section. Your CEO was made aware of it over a month ago and its still not fixed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Who is Alban Tafili? Well, what is the answer or are we supposed to be good at solving riddles. I met one of RAAus new board members and discussed incident reporting with him. He had talked about the subject. He didn't know if all reported incidents were published on the web site. Didn't have any idea about what percentage of incidents went un reported and also didn't seem to have much interest in them. I would have expected better from a board member. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Who is Alban Tafili?Well, what is the answer or are we supposed to be good at solving riddles. I met one of RAAus new board members and discussed incident reporting with him. He had talked about the subject. He didn't know if all reported incidents were published on the web site. Didn't have any idea about what percentage of incidents went un reported and also didn't seem to have much interest in them. I would have expected better from a board member. But they are now directors, and if you've worked in a large company, you'd know better than to ask a director. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 If I had an incident where nobody saw, I doubt very much if I would report it officially. Why would you? If there is a chance that the report could land you in trouble, why take that chance? If there was something that others needed to know to avoid a similar incident, then I would try to warn them anonymously. So Yenn, its a bit tough to say that a board member should have any idea of what percentage of incidents went unreported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Like the spare that was repaired and no paper work at all and nobody did it get real Sorry but that shit has to stop now neil 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 The unreported incident I am thinking about had a good safety message. A wheels up landing resulted in the repairer finding water in a float. That could not have been as a result if the incident. It is a wake up call to people with a Petrel to somehow check their floats for water. OK the pilot didn't want to be seeen to have made a mistake, so he denies othere the heads up about the water ingress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 If there is a chance that the report could land you in trouble, why take that chance? This is where GA does it right. In Australia there is theATSB ASRS Aviation Self Reporting Scheme and in the USA NASA ASRS ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System Broadly, these schemes allow someone to avoid prosecution if they report the incident. The view is that better data to prevent future accidents is better than punishing past accidents.... Not sure if RAAus has something similar. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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