RAAus and ELAAA

[pmccarthy]

You can buy a sub $50k GA four seater with a few hundred hours on engine and prop, annuals at $2-3k. The new high performance (speed or short field capability) RA plane will cost +$120k and annuals around $1k. Fuel consumption is better for RA but there is still a big gap that will allow a few years of GA fun. Depreciation probably $10k per year for RAA and $5k for GA over five years.

 

GA gives you much greater load and passenger capability. It all depends on the mission and the wallet.

 

 

[bull]

www.aviationtrader.com.au/adverts/rutan-long-ez/[/url] http://www.aviationtrader.com.au/adverts/cozy-mk-3/traderhttp://www.aviationtrader.com.au/adverts/auster-j5p/CESSNA 150M.

[turboplanner]

Sometimes GA plane( $50,000)? plus next 100 hourly (any number you might think of up to the price you will burn it rather than fix it) equals perhaps the best RAAus plane you can buy near new? Nev.

And sometimes it doesn't. I think I remember a Cherokee 6 bought for about $15,000 as is, with a further $16,000 for a very thorough corrosion replacement, which then should have given many years of cheap cross-country flying, i.e. trips like Melbourne-Uluru-Darwin-Gulf-Barrier Reef-Melbourne.

 

 

[facthunter]

That engine could be on it's 3rd life. That's one more than I would recommend so it's a NEW one next up. $40 k.at lest..magneto's every five years .What's the airframe like corrosion wise? spend easy $50 K (flap tracks.) underfloor structure. How much has the prop been cut at the tips? etc .Not new but some have more hours. They aren't very wide in the cockpit. Get a Piper Cub American Champion Citabria, Decathlon. and LIVE.. Yay..

 

PS on second thoughts they will send you broke. unless it has a job of work to do and you know what you are doing. Nev

 

 

[bull]

PIPER TOMAHAWK PA-38-112.

 

That engine could be on it's 3rd life. That's one more than I would recommend so it's a NEW one next up. $40 k.at lest..magneto's every five years .What's the airframe like corrosion wise? spend easy $50 K (flap tracks.) underfloor structure. How much has the prop been cut at the tips? etc .Not new but some have more hours. They aren't very wide in the cockpit. Get a Piper Cub American Champion Citabria, Decathlon. and LIVE.. Yay..PS on second thoughts they will send you broke. unless it has a job of work to do and you know what you are doing. Nev

What about this one ,,nice aircraft with NEW engine

[facthunter]

New or reconditioned? There is a limit to how many times you can overhaul an engine. I'm not a fan of a flying tail (unless it's on a Boeing.). The traumahawk looks neat .Once they are repainted you don't know what it's covering up? Most of them were used for training. They aren't as bad as some make out. Nev

 

 

[bull]

New or reconditioned? There is a limit to how many times you can overhaul an engine. I'm not a fan of a flying tail (unless it's on a Boeing.). The traumahawk looks neat .Once they are repainted you don't know what it's covering up? Most of them were used for training. They aren't as bad as some make out. Nev

The hawk looks great to me awesome little buy with more room then a jab or lightwing ah

 

 

[facthunter]

Well ultimately this will be your call. Have it checked out very carefully by someone who is very familiar with the type, and make sure all AD's are complied with. AOPA USA have an article on the handling of this plane. I doubt it's a problem if you are properly trained have some full spin instruction and be familiar with this aircrafts differences to others like the Cessna 152 re spin recovery techniques. It's safe if you know what you are doing but don't get into one at low level. Normal recovery technique may see it steepen and speed up the rate of rotation, which is normal for this plane. The motor Lyc 0-235 is well proven and reliable if serviced properly and used regularly. Get specific instruction on the flight issues. Don't teach yourself. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

The hawk looks great to me awesome little buy with more room then a jab or lightwing ah

Check out the weight and balance limitations as well. The Tomahawk has limitations in this regards.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Check out the weight and balance limitations as well. The Tomahawk has limitations in this regards.

The Tomahawk is really a trainer. GA is about carrying people plus baggage over decent distances to interesting destinations. With a four seater you can take more friends with limited baggage to part fuel distances, but for two people you can do long legs with a lot of overnight gear

 

 

[bull]

New or reconditioned? There is a limit to how many times you can overhaul an engine. I'm not a fan of a flying tail (unless it's on a Boeing.). The traumahawk looks neat .Once they are repainted you don't know what it's covering up? Most of them were used for training. They aren't as bad as some make out. Nev

No flying tail on this one mate!!!! are you sure you really know what your talking about??or are you just a computer pilot mate??

 

 

[bull]

The Tomahawk is really a trainer. GA is about carrying people plus baggage over decent distances to interesting destinations. With a four seater you can take more friends with limited baggage to part fuel distances, but for two people you can do long legs with a lot of overnight gear

Bet I still could do any of the flyins that I used to do in a lightwing or Poky little jab or a gt500 or a savanah ect .And have more range with more room and faster cruise speed too,and still be cheaper than bloody RAA,the way it is going with them and our costs ah..........

 

 

[turboplanner]

No flying tail on this one mate!!!! are you sure you really know what your talking about??or are you just a computer pilot mate??

He's just a keyboard warrior bull.

He's also flown just about everything from very basic ultralights to Boeing 727s on airline service.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Bet I still do any of the flyins that I do in a lightwing or Poky little jab or a gt500 or a savanah ect ah...................

Are you talking about the Piper Tomahawk?

 

 

[storchy neil]

fact soorrry mate full flying tale for me neil

 

 

[bull]

Yes

 

Are you talking about the Piper Tomahawk?

mate and I,m sorry about the computer comment to Facthunter if I,m wrong but it you look at the photo of that tomahawk you will see it is not a full flying tail as it has a fixed tailplane with elevators as you can see the elevator balance tabs at each end of the tailplane. And yes I,m sure I could happily do any flyins that I have already done in the tomahawk and with more room and style!

 

 

[bull]

He's just a keyboard warrior bull.He's also flown just about everything from very basic ultralights to Boeing 727s on airline service.

That may be Turbo , but the fact is it still has no full flying tail!

 

 

[aro]

Maybe he meant T tail?

 

 

[bull]

Maybe he meant T tail?

Could be right there, aro, but a vastly experienced pilot with time in basic ultralights up to a""T tail boeing 727 you would think would know the difference ah............just saying........

 

 

[bull]

Well ultimately this will be your call. Have it checked out very carefully by someone who is very familiar with the type, and make sure all AD's are complied with. AOPA USA have an article on the handling of this plane. I doubt it's a problem if you are properly trained have some full spin instruction and be familiar with this aircrafts differences to others like the Cessna 152 re spin recovery techniques. It's safe if you know what you are doing but don't get into one at low level. Normal recovery technique may see it steepen and speed up the rate of rotation, which is normal for this plane. The motor Lyc 0-235 is well proven and reliable if serviced properly and used regularly. Get specific instruction on the flight issues. Don't teach yourself. Nev

And the Tomahawk has a safety record of less then 2/3rds of crashes then the comparable Cessna 150/152

 

 

[aro]

you would think would know the difference

I'm sure he does

 

And the Tomahawk has a safety record of less then 2/3rds of crashes then the comparable Cessna 150/152

Per hour? By number of registrations? By total number of crashes?

 

 

[Admin]

@bull I would be very very careful with anything you say from this point on. Facthunter (Neville) is a long time friend of mine, an extremely knowledgable and experienced professional pilot, has flown more aircraft and has more hours than you could ever dream of getting. In this case you would be the keyboard warrior and still at a TIF stage when compared to the experience of Nev

[facthunter]

The Boeing doesn't have a flying tail either but the horizontal stab moves through large angle through the trim speed range. Strictly speaking it might not be regarded as a flying tail, either. Commanche's do have a flying tail where the whole surface moves. The Tomahawk has a bungee trim for a mass balanced elevator. Fairly conventional though it's not a fail safe set up. No redundancy. I assumed it would be as the Commanche or the Tripacer /Colt. so that's an incorrect assumption on my Part. Sorry to have stirred up a hornet's nest, but it's not the essence of the point I wanted to make which relates to the spin characteristics which wouldn't stop me buying one but should be addressed to your satisfaction in your training, or assessment as to it's suitability for you. Nev

 

 

[bull]

@bull I would be very very careful with anything you say from this point on. Facthunter (Neville) is a long time friend of mine, an extremely knowledgable and experienced professional pilot, has flown more aircraft and has more hours than you could ever dream of getting. In this case you would be the keyboard warrior and still at a TIF stage when compared to the experience of Nev

My apologies to you Ian and Facthunter in this case as I,m sure I,am totally out of line ,my query was just ,as I was just asking a normal Question about comparable costs of RAA an ELaaa or GA for that matter igot the feeling from the answers that any sort of negativity to RAA was out of line and I was being made to look stupid to ask? and the plane I was talking about looked 100% a better option ifi was to go that way was all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sorry all.........[as I run under the house screaming yelp yelp yelp]

[bull]

The Boeing doesn't have a flying tail either but the horizontal stab moves through large angle through the trim speed range. Strictly speaking it might not be regarded as a flying tail, either. Commanche's do have a flying tail where the whole surface moves. The Tomahawk has a bungee trim for a mass balanced elevator. Fairly conventional though it's not a fail safe set up. No redundancy. I assumed it would be as the Commanche or the Tripacer /Colt. so that's an incorrect assumption on my Part. Sorry to have stirred up a hornet's nest, but it's not the essence of the point I wanted to make which relates to the spin characteristics which wouldn't stop me buying one but should be addressed to your satisfaction in your training, or assessment as to it's suitability for you. Nev

Thanks Nev and my heartfelt apologies to you mate as I got carried away with fingers in gear before brain and am truly sorry for any offence imay have caused cheers Scott aka bull..............