Camit closing

[coljones]

Your last paragraph is missing the point by so much. Are you saying that technology hasn't created jobs and industries? You know there was a time before cars existed too. I'm sure some people used to think they weren't needed back then and that they should just focus on trains and....dinner plates for

We are moving (have moved) into an era of extensive underemployment where the workers are getting an amount of hours that makes them employed but not the hours that they want. In some cases they are living below the poverty level and/or working in areas and at times which are unsociable or on zero hour contracts that binds them without offering any money. The workers being let off in the car industry and, perhaps, Camit are going to face issues because of their age, lack of relevant training and lack of jobs where they live.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nick, CAMIT was a modern industry. Computer Aided Manufacturing. Specialist product for a niche market.

 

Looking around, I see the new jobs being created are aged care; security ( rent a cop); occupational health and safety; child care; incarceration ( jailers); bureaucrats and submarine builders.

 

These are nearly all government jobs which are of course way more "subsidised" than manufacturing ever was.

 

Even so, this is not enough to prevent there being 30,000 newstart recipients in the electorate here. They are about to be added to by the fallout from Holden closing.What would you have them do?

 

 

[Yenn]

No doubt that technology has created jobs, but what jobs. They don't produce anything solid, nor something you could eat. Meanwhile steel. forestry, car manufacturing and a load of other things have just about disappeared. Those who do produce something of worth, such as dairy farmers are robbed by the middle man who has a monopoly. We have a government that thinks offering loans to a farmer who is being ripped off is the correct thing to do. We have a population who want everything at the cheapest price.

 

We are starting to pay the price of stupidity. It is impossible to buy quality. Things that worked ten years ago are superceeded by rubbish. The only good thing is that i am old enough that I may just turn up my toes before it all goes to sh1t.

 

 

[coljones]

Nick, CAMIT was a modern industry. Computer Aided Manufacturing. Specialist product for a niche market.Looking around, I see the new jobs being created are aged care; security ( rent a cop); occupational health and safety; child care; incarceration ( jailers); bureaucrats and submarine builders.

These are nearly all government jobs which are of course way more "subsidised" than manufacturing ever was.

 

Even so, this is not enough to prevent there being 30,000 newstart recipients in the electorate here. They are about to be added to by the fallout from Holden closing.What would you have them do?

30,000 in an electorate of 100,000????

 

 

[ClintonB]

Just for amusment try going to Centrelink or whatever nice name they have now and watch the young ugg boot and pyjama brigade march in with their IPhone 100's etc covered in tattoos "because they are poor" or having a fag whilst waiting outside holding 1 to 2 prams(these are the morons I spoke of before). When I moved to NSW 16 years ago as a sole parent of 2 under 18months-(one of these animals run of on kids to have another 7 by age 38) I received almost double what I earned working hard for 40-50hrs per week. I lived the high life financially. All the extras, plus pension, fas, etc. I went mental with sitting around - off and trained at TAFE- then work again thanks to a good woman' s help to raise these kids, plus 3 new ones and run a business to success after 14 years to getting rewards finally. I get a nice letter once a year form the ATO outlining where the tax I pay goes. It is scary. the largest chunk is to Single parent familys- Most of which would not exist if they did not have boyfriends living with them on newstart at home to shag.

 

The smallest ammounts g to defence, old aged, schools, roads etc. they even give you a coloured bar graph chart. that is what sh#ts me. There are other things they should be doing with our money. I know this is off point a bit, but pollies have a lot to answer for.

 

 

[Ron5335]

OK, I may be dumb, but Where did technology and innovation create jobs?

 

Lets start a list of what occupations have gone South since technology arrived.

 

The humble ticket writer that every big supermarket had went.

 

Tech Drawing is a thing of the past.

 

Machinists not needed as we have lathes that you just mount the billet, press go, and walk away.

 

Even the humble Garbo is down to 1 man per truck

 

 

[nickduncs84]

OK, I may be dumb, but Where did technology and innovation create jobs?Lets start a list of what occupations have gone South since technology arrived.

 

The humble ticket writer that every big supermarket had went.

 

Tech Drawing is a thing of the past.

 

Machinists not needed as we have lathes that you just mount the billet, press go, and walk away.

 

Even the humble Garbo is down to 1 man per truck

Go to Silicon Valley. A few jobs there. Denver. NYC. Austin. Quite a few here in Australia too. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that this thread sounds like nothing more than a bunch of old timers complaining about how much better things were 'back in the day'. Technology isn't going anywhere. Companies aren't going to not adopt it if it's going to save them labour costs.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... There are about 22 countries in the world producing cars. Not producing them here is hard to explain. We still employ a fair number involved in the "testing and development" phase. That's better than nothing but how much better would it be if it went into an Australian product that we could identify with, and call our own. Nev

Not long ago we were told that South Australia had one of the world's biggest car panel presses. That Oz was one of only 9 countries capable of designing, tooling up and manufacturing a car. That even Germany subsidised their car builders. Then we threw it all away. Were the decisions made here or in Detroit? Why did this county, (a core market for 4WDs) import them for 50 years before a belated attempt to build our own?

 

Clever.

 

 

[Brett]

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that this thread sounds like nothing more than a bunch of old timers complaining about how much better things were 'back in the day'.

Ooouuuccchhhhhh,,,,,, don't hold back next time....

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Nic, you sound quite young , having a go at us oldies saying we long for the "good old days " is wrong , what we mean is that us oldies came up in a different time , where we were responsible for our actions, we were all so post war and there was work in abundance , now most of you "younger ones " dont really know bad times , your parents fed you , housed you , educated you, looked after you financially for a long time , us oldies however worked hard and wanted better things for our kids far from whinging look at it from our side , we are now over regulated , nanny state mindless reg,s could go on , we didn,t sit in airconditioned offices with our bums on chairs staring at computors all day , technology is great , but we still need people to manufacture ,and as someone said no government is interested in it , so lets all get jobs in technology and let the peasents do the grunt work

 

cheers gareth

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Those who do produce something of worth, such as dairy farmers are robbed by the middle man who has a monopoly.

The day that Farmer about 15 years ago was jailed for selling his farm eggs on the side of the road should have bought the country to a standstill.

 

It didn't, sadly, but was one of the things that woke me up to a few things.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Those who do produce something of worth, such as dairy farmers are robbed by the middle man who has a monopoly.

I'm not sure about Queensland, but the Victorian Dairy Industry has been deregulated.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Go to Silicon Valley. A few jobs there. Denver. NYC. Austin. Quite a few here in Australia too. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that this thread sounds like nothing more than a bunch of old timers complaining about how much better things were 'back in the day'. Technology isn't going anywhere. Companies aren't going to not adopt it if it's going to save them labour costs.

I thought this thread was about getting some metal, making it into a shape, put the shapes together and make an engine. Only position for silicone valley is the CNC machines. I am wondering how the silicone valley products can swing a prop?

We need some perspiration involved with the exercise.

 

KP

 

 

[Keith Page]

The day that Farmer about 15 years ago was jailed for selling his farm eggs on the side of the road should have bought the country to a standstill.It didn't, sadly, but was one of the things that woke me up to a few things.

Yep pollies sitting on their fat ask telling us what to do. These fat lounge cats are not bothered about going to see what us people, they sit back and tell us what they think is good. The producer/industry/society groups political arm is basically useless, it is just an echo for the political parties which are in power at the time.

KP

 

 

[Camel]

Go to Silicon Valley. A few jobs there. Denver. NYC. Austin. Quite a few here in Australia too. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that this thread sounds like nothing more than a bunch of old timers complaining about how much better things were 'back in the day'. Technology isn't going anywhere. Companies aren't going to not adopt it if it's going to save them labour costs.

The trouble with youth it is wasted on the young ! A lesson on history could be well spent talking to people who saw it happen ! Some people know more about nothing than others !

 

 

[jetboy]

As an observer - we dont have these Senate pollies here - but I thought the pollies at least 2 of them did something positive about looking at CASA and there now should be a third pollie (Pauline uses a Jab doesnt she?) to deal to CASA in the manner required.

 

Queensland Senator questions CASA over Jabiru Engine - Australian Flying

 

It wasnt the pollies that saw Camit screwed, it was the CASA unfairly grounding of Jab aircraft and banishing of flight school aircraft from the airports which killed sales suddenly no more engines were required to be built by their contract manufacturer. CASA ought to have limited to withdrawing the type certificate for the affected engines until they are satisfied those conditions are met. The ASTM engines are not in their remit. Jabiru are just giving the finger anyway and boiling up an externally sourced product. I'm sorry the good guys took the hit so far but it seems timely that the Senate should be reminded to follow up on that inquiry they suggested.

 

Ralph

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

We have to hold the pollies responsible for CASA. It is the pollies who should balance competing claims for money and who should be concerned with voter's total well-being.

 

For example, it is twice as dangerous, on mortality figures, to be overweight as it is to fly. And twice as dangerous again to be inactive. Yet CASA does not have a brief to worry about total safety, only aviation safety. So if they ground people who were looking after themselves to be fit for flying, they will kill more than they save, but they will have obeyed their orders.

 

CASA's actions with Jabiru are similar.. they can do great harm to the country as a whole but be fulfilling a narrow interpretation of the orders they get from their political masters.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Bex, in Ming dynasty China, I have read that the bureaucrats were so powerful that they even dictated the clothes you could wear. This over-regulation made the world's superpower of the times gradually into an impoverished and failed state, ripe for plundering by the Europeans in later years.

 

Now we are seeing Europe as over-regulated compared to China.

 

There may be a natural law going on... bureaucracy grows in a society like a cancer until a great crisis causes a reset.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Nic, you sound quite young , having a go at us oldies saying we long for the "good old days " is wrong , what we mean is that us oldies came up in a different time , where we were responsible for our actions, we were all so post war and there was work in abundance , now most of you "younger ones " dont really know bad times , your parents fed you , housed you , educated you, looked after you financially for a long time , us oldies however worked hard and wanted better things for our kids far from whinging look at it from our side , we are now over regulated , nanny state mindless reg,s could go on , we didn,t sit in airconditioned offices with our bums on chairs staring at computors all day , technology is great , but we still need people to manufacture ,and as someone said no government is interested in it , so lets all get jobs in technology and let the peasents do the grunt workcheers gareth

Mate honestly I wasn't trying to offend anyone and if I did then I'm genuinely sorry. What annoyed me was the dig at the younger generations as being lazy dole bludgers, so I guess my reaction was similar to yours. Also, I might be younger than you but not that young and I'm sure that I certainly share a lot of your views. Nanny state, mindless regulations, crippling bureaucracy. I agree with all of that. I also agree that the way the World is going is probably not all that sustainable in the long run. What I mean by that is that our economic system of requiring perpetual growth ultimately creates a lot of issues. Like many have pointed out, the relentless pursuit of increasing profits has many side affects. We are told we are better off and have more opportunity than ever, but many of us would surely prefer the simpler life of our parents generation.

 

As for us younger ones not knowing the bad times, I suppose it's easy to generalise, but every generation has it's challenges. I look at my parents friends now and it's interesting to listen to them tell stories about how hard they had it growing up as they are selling off their family home for millions. In fact, I'd say pretty much anyone who bought a house in Sydney 20 to 30 years ago is now a millionaire. It's fair to say that they have certainly cashed in on the housing market in a way that previous and future generations won't be able to. But I guess you are right, for the most part, I've grown up in very stable times. I can only hope for the same thing for my boys, but it's safe to say that looking at the World right now, I'm not all that confident.

 

I hope you didn't take my comment about jobs in technology as a dig. Believe me, I look at some of the people on this forum, no doubt from an older generation, with a lot of envy. I would love to be able to go out into the shed and craft something like Bex or HITC. I genuinely mean that. The skill and expertise that you see from these guys far suppresses what I can do on a computer, so it's not a matter or me thinking manufacturing is for the peasants. I guess the only point I was trying to make is that in my view, conversations like this are only productive if they take place within the framework of things which we can control.

 

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong on manufacturing but in my view, taking into account the advantages that other countries have on labour, if we're going to have a manufacutring industry here, we'll have to find our own advantages.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's hard to match the satisfaction you get when you produce something with your own hands. We need to redevelop lots of basic skills, to really get involved. Just buying some hi tech toy doesn't get you there in the satisfaction stakes. If you have enough money you don't appreciate it, probably tire of it quickly and move onto something else equally junky or a supposedly better later version, and you wouldn't be caught dead in the earlier one.. I also can't understand people who stick the autopilot in straight away unless it's company policy, or you want to do some chart work. Flying a responsive plane is like being a part of it. Its' an extension of you. Didn't you buy or build it to FLY it, not sit there while it flies itself.

 

I recall a Mercedes advert listing the improvements on the earlier model that the later model had. It was really quite lengthy. The earlier one MUST have been a piece of crap would be one conclusion you could draw.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A recall a Mercedes advert listing the improvements on the earlier model that the later model had. It was really quite lengthy. The earlier one MUST have been a piece of crap would be one conclusion you could draw.

Another one you could draw would be that 30 of my peers worked their guts out for three years, often working into the night in the tedious work of redesigning something to make it much better, and used their five to ten years training to create new designs that never existed before.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's what they would like you to believe. A lot of the changes relate to cost of production, or eliminating owner servicing. No dip stick etc very specialised and costly head and tail lights. Mag wheels and thin section tyres not good on the country roads. low roof line (hard to exit and enter)

 

I have said elsewhere that late cars are really quite good in so many ways, but you won't easily keep one for as many years as the older ones where a model changed little over 10 or 12 years mechanically and had many parts in common across models. Some common makes don't have new parts for 5 year old vehicles so if you can't get it from a wreck, too bad. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Let's not have an intergenerational dispute. We baby boomers might have had a less materially rich start to the world, but we did have greater certainty and security than Nick's generation. We had jobs galore and permenancy yet plenty of boomers were dole bludgers (I have little sympathy for many recent retirees who moan about having no assets). I feel slightly uncomfortable with my Seniors discounts; my generation tends to have more money and fewer worries than the shrinking ranks of those working. Don't be surprised to see phasing out of perks for Seniors in future

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

You got me checking that 30,000 figure coljones. It was first said during the last election by the failed Liberal candidate, and I never checked it but quoted it lots. A bit lazy huh.

 

Here's what I have found... South Australia total official figure is 55,000. To get a better estimate of unemployment, you need to double this figure since it is spin-doctored as far as they can go, I think one hour a week gets you off the statistic.

 

So given the concentration of Newstart recipients in the industrial north of Adelaide, the 30,000 figure is not far off the reality, and possibly less than the true unemployed. But I liked your skepticism.

 

 

[facthunter]

There might be some seniors doing well but I don't see any of them. You might see them in resort towns on holidays and some on the road in Winnebagos sp?. Cut the PERKS?? more. My father used to say you can't get blood out of a stone, and I can understand what he meant. They can't even afford to get their teeth attended to, buy shoes or own a suit to go to funerals. There might be a few getting "pensions" who don't REQUIRE them but those who do are barely getting by in many cases, especially anyone renting. Nev