geoffreywh Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 I'm going to put a Rotec on my Jodel. So you can buy my Continental 0-200?
bexrbetter Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Receivers engaged, no hope of restarting The important part is if Ian Bent has the computer files in his hands or not. The machines are obviously needed, but with those files starting up again simply comes down to using other machines. Without the files, it's dead in the water.
bexrbetter Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 I got 250 hours out of my jab 6. What happened at "250 hrs" please?
coljones Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 The important part is if Ian Bent has the computer files in his hands or not.The machines are obviously needed, but with those files starting up again simply comes down to using other machines. Without the files, it's dead in the water. Is it Ian's IP or Camit's?
jetjr Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Not much stopping someone making replacement parts. Especially those Jabiru can't or won't supply CAE parts were largely different anyway Wound up company can't take action against anyone
bexrbetter Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Is it Ian's IP or Camit's? Just a standard fare engine of the last 100 years, don't see how Jab could claim anything except maybe visual styling, and they do have a unique look, but that would be easily resolved There is one nonsensical claim listed .. . Patent US7617804 - Axial flow cooling for air-cooled engines
zodiacpilot Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 A opportunity for Jabiru to buy Camit at a 'bargain price', mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, just sayin;. Stranger stuff has happened.
coljones Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Just a standard fare engine of the last 100 years, don't see how Jab could claim anything except maybe visual styling, and they do have a unique look, but that would be easily resolvedThere is one nonsensical claim listed .. . Patent US7617804 - Axial flow cooling for air-cooled engines More the point of who owns the coding for the CNC machines? Is it Ian's or does it belong to Camit? If it belongs to Ian he can probably deal with it independently of the fate of Camit.
mkennard Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 What happened at "250 hrs" please? The engine ran hot and couldn't get much help from my lame. It wasn't till I found someone else that I got a solution but it was already on a downhill path. He put a larger jet to richen the mixture, filed down the baffles a fraction to improve airflow and voila, the temps dropped 50C or more. Unfortunately the heads are warped and leaking oil and I could get a rebuild but the estimate for that from Jabiru is quit high for a low hours engine. It's an early hydraulic lifter, I ran the engine according to the POH and it is my first plane so a lot of learning in the process. 2
ROGER.G Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 A opportunity for Jabiru to buy Camit at a 'bargain price', mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, just sayin;. Stranger stuff has happened. Another possibility is an opportunity for ROTEC to obtain the CNC coding and IP and expand their engine catalogue. I would certainly like to see some way that support for CAMIT engines to continue, having recently installed one in my SP6. (Going well, too.) Interestingly, I received an update of the service manual from CAMIT only last month, so there must have been some hope that the situation could have been retrieved, right up to the end. 2
planedriver Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Unfortunately, the majority of people these days want to buy everything on the cheap, and in a way, you can't really blame them for that. Quality, is a bit like buying oats. If you want good clean quality oats? then you have to expect to pay a fair price for them. However, if you are content to buy oats that have already passed through the horse, they normally come at a much cheaper price. 1
facthunter Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Most people have no real way of knowing what quality is and they will drive across town to save 5 dollars. Penny wise.. Pound foolish. Nev 3
Downunder Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 With regard to the new "15 fin engine" (shall we call it that?) cooling. I believe a rough cast surface has far better "heat to air" transfer capabilities at the molecular level than smooth machined surfaces. The rough surface causing turbulence and better heat exchange than air just skating along a flat surface. 3
Jaba-who Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 The engine ran hot and couldn't get much help from my lame. It wasn't till I found someone else that I got a solution but it was already on a downhill path.He put a larger jet to richen the mixture, filed down the baffles a fraction to improve airflow and voila, the temps dropped 50C or more. Unfortunately the heads are warped and leaking oil and I could get a rebuild but the estimate for that from Jabiru is quit high for a low hours engine. It's an early hydraulic lifter, I ran the engine according to the POH and it is my first plane so a lot of learning in the process. Did you work out why it suddenly happened (at 250 hrs). Suddenly getting hot must have been result of something happening.
bexrbetter Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 I believe a rough cast surface has far better "heat to air" transfer capabilities at the molecular level than smooth machined surfaces. . Correct, it's known as eddy heat transfer. You'll find plenty of articles on it.
ROGER.G Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Did you work out why it suddenly happened (at 250 hrs).Suddenly getting hot must have been result of something happening. My own experience is that airflow around the Jab (and CAMIT for that matter) is critically important (my aircraft overheated from day one). I have heard of owners who have enlarged the outlet opening of the lower cowl, to no avail. This is counterproductive because this is a high pressure area, so simply enlarging this opening will actually inhibit the airflow within the cowl. In my instance the main solution was to add a deflector at this location to create low pressure at the outlet. Additionally, I found that airflow over the sump is just as if not more important as airflow through the oil cooler (mine is an early model with finned sump). 1 1
geoffreywh Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Ah yes, airflow over the sump. Did you know that the cooling fins are on the wrong side? they should be on the inside. The oil pick-up sucks red hot oil that sits on a layer of nice (relatively) cold oil just above the surface of the sump. Want to help? some nice tapered spikes or short ribs welded? to the inside of the sump....A'la AJS porcupine. What about painting the barrels black?....Maybe coarse sand blasting the cooling fins? 1
mkennard Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Did you work out why it suddenly happened (at 250 hrs).Suddenly getting hot must have been result of something happening. Nothing sudden, we monitored the situation and had a cut off if things got worse. To me the engine was sounding perfect, even when I did my BFR the instructor liked the sound, maybe too used to a 4 cylinder. About 3 cylinder heads were seaping oil after 25 hours and this was happening but there was a lot of oil the last 25 hourly. 1
bexrbetter Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 About 3 cylinder heads were seaping oil after 25 hours and this was happening but there was a lot of oil the last 25 hourly. Clearly CASA's fault. 1 1 1
jaybee258 Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Hi Guys. Sorry to be useless here, but could someone just clear something up for me. Jabiru first made the 2200 which had various problems. Camit have more recently been making an improved version of the engine, which this thread is about. Do Jabiru still make their version of the 2200? Thanks
coljones Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Hi Guys. Sorry to be useless here, but could someone just clear something up for me. Jabiru first made the 2200 which had various problems. Camit have more recently been making an improved version of the engine, which this thread is about. Do Jabiru still make their version of the 2200?Thanks Well we don't actually know if the Camit engine is better as it has not been on the block all that long. There are those that proclaim long and loud that they are the new sliced white. Jabiru is still having engines made to their design and specs. There had been a number of mods and processes made to the various types, early solid lifters, hydraulic lifters and post hydraulic fixed lifters. The Jabiru site will list the models, serial numbers and mods that have the CASA blessing. Buying a Camit could be problematical as they appear to be in receivership. 1
jetjr Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 All Jabiru engines came from Camit. Jabiru have never made an engine themselves. Several versions of the 2200 exist including a certificated one. They have been working on a new engine which isn't ready yet, first examples assembled recently. Some parts have been in testing for 12 months or a bit more So unless there is pre Camit closure stock sitting around Id suggest no Jabiru cannot supply a new 2200 engine or some of the major parts for them. Perhaps ask them. 1
ROGER.G Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Nothing sudden, we monitored the situation and had a cut off if things got worse. To me the engine was sounding perfect, even when I did my BFR the instructor liked the sound, maybe too used to a 4 cylinder. About 3 cylinder heads were seaping oil after 25 hours and this was happening but there was a lot of oil the last 25 hourly. Sounds very much like my experience, my original Jab engine needed a top overhaul at 120 hours (oval and out of round cylinders). The fact that I initially had the 'standard' instrument package (which was just one CHT thermocouple under No 6 spark plug) did not help, subsequent installation of a 12 point monitor showed No 4 to be the hottest cylinder. Jabiru staff, while courteous, really had no practical solutions to my problems, a lot of trial and error in consultation with a local LAME and other flyers sorted things out. I think the Jabiru cooling issues would equally apply to CAMIT, and Ian Bent insists that individual cylinder CHT EGT be installed to his engines.
ROGER.G Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Ah yes, airflow over the sump. Did you know that the cooling fins are on the wrong side? they should be on the inside. The oil pick-up sucks red hot oil that sits on a layer of nice (relatively) cold oil just above the surface of the sump. Want to help? some nice tapered spikes or short ribs welded? to the inside of the sump....A'la AJS porcupine. What about painting the barrels black?....Maybe coarse sand blasting the cooling fins? Well, you learn something every day! I suppose the ideal would be fins to both sides? As for the cylinders, CAMIT are black (but still machined finish).
fritterburner Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 Correct, when I was there I saw the CAE barrels/cylinders being sandblasted and painted a matte black colour. Was intended to help diffuse the heat more efficiently. Observed some heads getting a similar treatment: some of the engines sold to South Africa incorporated a finned rocker cover too, with the entire head and this finned rocker cover further painted with some dark paint also. Unsure if same paint was used on both heads and barrels. Can only assume they were designed to be suited to the hotter climate over there (though summer here gets close!).
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