JohnC Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 JohnC, you're quite right re re your comments on Japan, the originators of modern day quality. However, it's not 'control' that's important in the scheme of things. It's ASSURANCE. Q.C. comes after the product has been made, Q.A. comes before. Large companies pay attention to how their suppliers will assure that they follow the design to the 'nth' degree. No matter where or in what country the manufacture actually takes place. I worked 20 years for Tenneco's Walker Muffler division and was involved in the change from Q.C. to Q.A.. A long and tedious path to be sure. I won't go into details but, when it's set up correctly, even the Chinese have to follow the rules or face HUGE consequences. It does, however, take a lot of cash to set it up and I too, doubt that Jabiru are financially up to it or have the know-how to do it. Deskpilot, Yes couldn't agree more. Our company is Quality Assured, took ages to get, cost a fortune and is an ongoing process of checks, internal audits, external / third party audits, increased, costs etc. however we are better placed in our market and contrary to popular belief most people will pay more for guaranteed quality. This brings me on to Camit, Ian Bent had a good team, knew what he was doing, sorted the issues with the engine and via discussions with him and independent Camit users I was satisfied and ordered a Camit 3300 (to late unfortunately). Camit's quality assurance was Ian's attitude, ability, experience and the fact Camit were small and Ian was hands on at every stage of manufacture, my perception of Camit was "if it aint perfect it aint leaving this factory" - this is the best Quality Assurance & Control you can get. Jabiru are going to have a tough time selling there new engine based on past Quality Assurance & Control issues and now negative customer perception. I really hope all goes well for Jabiru and their new engine is a success because if it isn't they are in serious trouble, and the problem they face is selling enough of these new engines to prove they are reliable in the field - I simply cannot take that chance and that's why I am looking at alternative engine manufactures & aircraft. 1
eightyknots Posted October 28, 2016 Posted October 28, 2016 If you market someone else's product under your name you take responsibility for it. If you fit a suppliers product (like a starter motor, battery or tyres, for example) that supplier make have separate warrantee responsibilities in their own right. A brand name should mean something that you can trust. There's plenty of real crap out there. I lot wouldn't know the difference, (or don't care) and just buy the cheapest. If you do that all the time you deserve problems. What's the point of some manufacturer doing the right thing if no extra sales result? Nev Yes. It is just like Samsung with the Galaxy Note 7 phones. The faulty batteries came from another supplier but Samsung is expected to stand behind their product. 4
jetjr Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 AU warranty legislation is very tough even for normal retail products If you make it or import it then you are responsible for the warranty and in many cases consequential damages. There's even fit for purpose requirement and implied warranties that cannot be waivered away. Hence we pay more for things here than elsewhere in the world. Insurance for all this is expensive Much of this doesn't apply to sales to companies or those over $40 K
Bruce Tuncks Posted October 29, 2016 Posted October 29, 2016 Most of the time, I would exchange a warranty for a discount. It is a real invasion of my rights to prevent me from doing this, and it makes things much more expensive. The nanny state and excessive bureaucracy add up to create poverty. 1 1
Phil Perry Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 Yes, I would like to know too. The "creative" tag which was more useful in my opinion, has disappeared. Perhaps it means something like 'Caution' I think that your post is a bit 'Iffy' mate. . .so be careful, otherwise the rough end of a pineapple is coming your way ? ? 1
Phil Perry Posted October 30, 2016 Posted October 30, 2016 Friends had their Jabiru UL out today, and were running it at fairly high speed along a runway with the top cowling removed. They did not fly it. This is the one I mentioned a few months back which had a partial power failure and a dropped valve was 'suggested'. It WAS a valve failure, and the repairs cost quite a LOT of money. ( I did not ask and they didn't say how much. ) They also were upset about the demise of Camit, with whom they had done business before, and were very happy with the service received. Anyway, it is ( Apparently ) not running to their satisfaction, and the engineer is expected to return to look at it. It received it's permit to fly renewal, so it MUST have flown before today, as the Permit inspection culminates in a Check Flight. . . but they are obviously unhappy with something, and are being super careful in the circumstances. ( I was curious about whether running without the top cowling would affect cooling,. . .but I didn't get the chance to ask today. . . . Club AGM on Thursday next, so I'll poke me proboscis in then. . . . ) All three 'Other' Jabiru engined aircraft on the site are reporting no problems, and much happy flying. . . . ( 2 x Savannahs and a CH701 ) We got seven new Club Members today,. . . two flight students, who had no Idea that there was actually a flying Club on the site and the instructors never told them. . . ( ? Odd, as there is a 2400 x 1200mm sign board on the gate, which I have pictured on this site before [ only cos I made it. . .] ) These folks just happened to 'Pop' in, and my mate Mad Bob took four of them ( Two youngish couples ) up in his MW6, charged them precisely nothing for the privilege, and they were so grateful that they joined up immediately. . . there was another couple, one of whom was having a flying lesson, and Bob flew his ladyfriend too. . . ( He is always happy to have a lady between his legs apparently. . . ) so we did OK today for new blood. There are too many Old Farts at our field, we need some younger people involved. This is the way to do it. The weather was utterley crap, 500Ft cloudbase, . . Viz 4 NM. . .but it was lovely, Calm and WARM ( 17C ) Still. . .this is the UK. Innit ? . . . 3
Jaba-who Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 The bit that irks me is that CAE engine with expensive name parts was the same price as a Jabiru. Well actually that is not correct. (At least was not for me about 18 months ago) I spent quite a bit of time looking at both CAE and Jabiru engines to replace my then 500 hour Jab 3300. (No problems with it - just wanted to upgrade it to all the latest upgrades to avoid trouble and it turned out the most sensible economic direct was simply replace it with a new one.. To buy one new then was $22K for a CAE and $18K for a Jabiru. Just as an aside Jabiru gave me a trade in of $4K as well so it was a very attractive offer that CAE could not match. But even without the trade in - CAE were $4k more expensive. 1 1
jetjr Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 $21 k it was Aug 2015, included big altenator, toca, exhaust seals 6 cht probes, inhibitor and freight Basic engine was less 1
jaybee258 Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Friends had their Jabiru UL out today, and were running it at fairly high speed along a runway with the top cowling removed. They did not fly it. We got seven new Club Members today,. . . two flight students, who had no Idea that there was actually a flying Club on the site and the instructors never told them. . . ( ? Odd, as there is a 2400 x 1200mm sign board on the gate, which I have pictured on this site before [ only cos I made it. . .] ) These folks just happened to 'Pop' in, and my mate Mad Bob took four of them ( Two youngish couples ) up in his MW6, charged them precisely nothing for the privilege, and they were so grateful that they joined up immediately. . . there was another couple, one of whom was having a flying lesson, and Bob flew his ladyfriend too. . . ( He is always happy to have a lady between his legs apparently. . . ) so we did OK today for new blood. There are too many Old Farts at our field, we need some younger people involved. This is the way to do it. The weather was utterley crap, 500Ft cloudbase, . . Viz 4 NM. . .but it was lovely, Calm and WARM ( 17C ) Still. . .this is the UK. Innit ? . . . Well done Mad Bob. A generous gesture and with a good outcome for new flyers. Maybe more of us should learn by this example
JohnC Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Well actually that is not correct. (At least was not for me about 18 months ago)I spent quite a bit of time looking at both CAE and Jabiru engines to replace my then 500 hour Jab 3300. (No problems with it - just wanted to upgrade it to all the latest upgrades to avoid trouble and it turned out the most sensible economic direct was simply replace it with a new one.. To buy one new then was $22K for a CAE and $18K for a Jabiru. Just as an aside Jabiru gave me a trade in of $4K as well so it was a very attractive offer that CAE could not match. But even without the trade in - CAE were $4k more expensive. That's interesting, in August (2016) Camit quoted 18,750.00 AU$ for a complete / full 3300 engine, and 13,500.00 AU$ for a core / short 3300 engine - ordered the full engine just before they ceased trading didn't make any payments though.
Phil Perry Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Well done Mad Bob. A generous gesture and with a good outcome for new flyers. Maybe more of us should learn by this example Oh he's not that mad Jaybee. . . nice bloke. Mind you, he is the only person I have ever personally known, who continually wears ( on the ground of course ) a 'Sherlock Holmes' Deerstalker hat. . . .
scsirob Posted October 31, 2016 Posted October 31, 2016 Just over AUD $20K including TOCA, CHT sensors, ram air ducts and air freight to Europe. Amazing delivery, less than a week from factory to my doorstep in The Netherlands. No GST gets offset by local import and VAT charges but in the end I was better off than buying my Jabiru in 2003. 1
scsirob Posted November 4, 2016 Posted November 4, 2016 So it's getting close to a month since impact. Has anyone been able to track the whereabouts of the equipment, plans, IP, spares, and perhaps Ian?
bexrbetter Posted November 4, 2016 Posted November 4, 2016 $20,570 inc GST for here I reckon the somewhat silly "caution" button should be replaced with a "shocked!" button
ave8rr Posted November 4, 2016 Posted November 4, 2016 So it's getting close to a month since impact. Has anyone been able to track the whereabouts of the equipment, plans, IP, spares, and perhaps Ian? Contact the Receivers (Worrells) in Brissy.....they should be able to give you an update..
jetjr Posted November 4, 2016 Posted November 4, 2016 Slow progress but yes I'm following it up PM me if you want you know more, not sure it's really public information 1
anjum_jabiru Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 If we don't fix it soon, EVERYBODY will suffer, that includes Gays, and every other minority group.Minority groups need to clearly understand that they get privileges and exceptions because we are a prosperous society, if that prosperity suffers so do they, we are all in this together. Immigration will fix all of this. I read it in the paper. Aren't we all immigrants to Australia, the land of the Aboriginals? It is the only country in the world where people have mutual respect for each other and which thrives on human values, where all the communities live in peace and harmony.
Kyle Communications Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 The aboriginals came from elsewhere too you know so that makes them immigrants too doesnt it....how far do you want to go back. Is it only good enough for 200 years or 20,000 years 4
anjum_jabiru Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 The aboriginals came from elsewhere too you know so that makes them immigrants too doesnt it....how far do you want to go back. Is it only good enough for 200 years or 20,000 years You are right, everyone living in Australia is an immigrant. Aboriginals too migrated here from another country, although they were the 1st immigrants! Cheers :) 1
Yenn Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 there were people here before the aboriginals. The Bradshaw paintings are proof of that. definitely not aboriginal and the aboriginals say they don't know where they came from. 1 1
bexrbetter Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 You are right, everyone living in Australia is an immigrant. Wrong, my decedents were conquerors, they not only came here and claimed the land taking on any challengers, they also defended and died for it when others wanted to do the same. Anyway you paint it, it is undeniable that it is a fact of humans throughout history that we take others lands and goods to expand our own races, and you enjoy every comfort afforded to you today due to that. The only people who have an hypocrite'less argument are those living off the bush - who don't have a computer or electricity to be here anyway, so i win this argument by default 1
anjum_jabiru Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Ok. Got it , so to become the native of a particular country, one needs to kill and murder the inhabitants and plunder the land. And once they have conquered the land by deception or using power against someone who is weak and vulnerable, then they become the original inhabitants . According to your logic - if countries like India & China, which have the largest armies, decide to conquer Australia in a World War 3, then everyone in India / China who moves to Australia will become natives of Australia, and will no more be immigrants! Lucky, the Indians and Chinese do not follow your logic .
ave8rr Posted March 9, 2017 Posted March 9, 2017 Ok. Got it , so to become the native of a particular country, one needs to kill and murder the inhabitants and plunder the land. And once they have conquered the land by deception or using power against someone who is weak and vulnerable, then they become the original inhabitants .According to your logic - if countries like India & China, which have the largest armies, decide to conquer Australia in a World War 3, then everyone in India / China who moves to Australia will become natives of Australia, and will no more be immigrants! Lucky, the Indians and Chinese do not follow your logic . Thread drift....This has nothing to do with Camit closing. Camit has closed and all parts / machinery disposed of.. 2
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