Ultralight crash North of Rockhampton

[winsor68]

When u compare to our roads and the risk u take just getting to work I say the risk is minimal but it can and will happen I guess

I hear what you are saying...but I still can't recall the last time a forumite from this site was killed in a car accident. Whereas for aircraft accidents...? What is the tally now?

 

 

[facthunter]

What ever it is, it's too high, and it appears to be so. I reached a point some time back where I felt I couldn't quite cope with the number of people (friends and acquaintances) I had lost in aviation. I would fight any more restrictions and our right to fly being curtailed in any way unless it was really going to improve things and not just appear to be doing something, let me state at the outset. It is fundamentally situationally quite dangerous but a lot of that risk can be managed by the individual by how safety conscious he/she is. Somebody else's plane can be a reduction of the management effectiveness. Having your own makes better control of quality possible but doesn't automatically achieve it.

 

Having more information available about catastrophic events , and those that could have been but for luck etc.has to be given higher priority but that has to be done properly, as it's information we need to improve our own situation as well as know how our friends came to grief. Where information is lacking, speculation thrives, and that's not helpful. We can ALL be part of that and not just leave it to someone else, though direction comes from the top. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

Nev

 

I hear what your saying, 1 loss is too many and we have had a few more than 1 over the years.

 

None of the ones lost went out that day knowing they wouldn't be coming back home to their loved ones otherwise they would have stayed home.

 

What is frustrating is we very rarely hear the actual cause of these accidents from the investigation if one is even carried out, we get no feedback to try and learn from the ones lost

 

Yes some are from doing stupid stuff and aren't hard to work out, others from out of the ordinary from highly experienced and respected pilots are the ones that cause me most concern

 

Yes we are all human even the most experienced ones and are all prone to making mistakes, I would like to know the causes of the not so obvious accidents like the recent ones to learn from them.

 

Alf

 

 

[Powerin]

As far as the risks go RPT airlines are the safest form of transport and the well known adage that you're more likely to get hurt driving to the airport is true. However private flying is a different story. It is not safer than driving a car.

 

Depending on how you measure it, stats from the USA show that, per mile travelled, private flying is about 10 times more dangerous than driving. If you use hours instead of miles flying is about 20 times more dangerous per hour than driving. This is the average over all non-commercial flights.

 

So don't fool yourself that flying is as safe as driving a car....but it's better than a motorcycle (26 times worse than a car per mile). Recognise the risks, do your best to reduce them, fly safe!

 

 

[facthunter]

In flying like we do, You have more control over the risks even though they are greater than in most other forms of transport. That is one of the big advantages and why I want to keep owner servicing available.(not compulsory) Reliability and the situations you put yourself into are the big variables, in the safety equation. Nev

 

 

[dan3111]

Risk is a hard think to gauge at times throw hole flying anything above the ground and can just be the most simple things at times. I have lost count how many times I have seen what left of a aircraft pulling frames still on front of a aircraft taxing up to the fuel depot . If you don,t fly much your risk is less, but low hours per year you aren,t as good at it, so your risk goes up the same . There is a lot of double edge swords in life dammed if you do and dammed if you don.t. How ever flying risk for a income is a (high one) as you don't have a lot of choice if the work is there you have to take it . Most of us work 40 hour week rain or shine at a work place ,but flying for a living is hard Saturday sunday flat stick if weather will let you then look for as much work as you can throw the week a few crums here and there . So you don,t often get to pick and chose your hours , weather or your aircraft or not if you need a pay packet at the end of the week .Us weekend flyers you often have a lot of choices you can pick the machine you would like to buy and fly . You get to chose weather you feel up to pulling it out of the hanger are just have a hanger talk (bullshit ) to fill in the weekend. dan

 

 

[facthunter]

All true Dan. All weather any time of the clock for sign on. Xmas eve, New years eve. Fly through cyclones. We expect a lot of our commercial flyers. Charter? Chase sheep off strip, Passengers always late, run out of daylight. Bad weather Must go??? sort of, yes. Nev

 

 

[Madmik]

This video outlines Cressie's credentials and thoughts after his first Revo flight (commencing at 3:54)

 

 

 

[Yenn]

I don't think RAAus has the ability to say what caused a fatal accident until after the coroners reported his findings. It would be good for us to see the coroners reports and they could be published by RAAus I would think. Otherwise it is hard to get hold of them as they will be interstate for most of us, although the mentione ones here are all in Qld. Is Qld really bad for fatal accidents?

 

 

[David Isaac]

I don't think RAAus has the ability to say what caused a fatal accident until after the coroners reported his findings. It would be good for us to see the coroners reports and they could be published by RAAus I would think. Otherwise it is hard to get hold of them as they will be interstate for most of us, although the mentione ones here are all in Qld. Is Qld really bad for fatal accidents?

Yenn,

Coroners reports are public information, you just have to know when they are published.

 

 

[biggles]

The States and Territories Acts vary slightly but the following refers to the policy (in part) in Queensland ...... Bob

 

The Coroners Act 2003 imposes strict limitations on the release of coronial documents because these documents contain highly sensitive and very personal information. The coroner must consent to the release of the information and it can only be released if the coroner is satisfied that the person seeking the documents has an appropriate interest in the information (for example an immediate family member). The coroner can also release information if satisfied it is in the public interest for the information to be released. For example, the coroner might release information about a dangerous product to the media to ensure the public is made aware of the danger. In these cases the coroner must consult with the family before releasing the information.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Well Bob

 

Guess we won't be getting much feedback on any accident investigated by the coroner then.

 

Unless of course if he is an aviation nut like the rest of us and has a vested interest in the rest of us to learn from someone else's unfortunate passing

 

Alf

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Well BobGuess we won't be getting much feedback on any accident investigated by the coroner then.

Unless of course if he is an aviation nut like the rest of us and has a vested interest in the rest of us to learn from someone else's unfortunate passing

 

Alf

The Queensland Coroner released reports to the public on this page http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/courts/coroners-court/findings . Just know the name of the deceased and approximate date.

As an example this one is about the replica spitfire crash - http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/337622/cif-uscinski-20141229.pdf

 

 

[biggles]

Well BobGuess we won't be getting much feedback on any accident investigated by the coroner then.

Unless of course if he is an aviation nut like the rest of us and has a vested interest in the rest of us to learn from someone else's unfortunate passing

 

Alf

Alf, as we know, all fatal accidents are investigated either by RAAus or, as now seems to be the case, by the ATSB also. Anything found by the investigators that impacts on the safety of a particular aircraft, is advised as early as possible . I know that it's not quite the same as reading the coroners findings in full, but sadly that's the way it is ..... Bob

 

 

[alf jessup]

Findings - Queensland Courts[/url] . Just know the name of the deceased and approximate date.As an example this one is about the replica spitfire crash - http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/337622/cif-uscinski-20141229.pdf

Thanks Happyflyer

 

 

[biggles]

Findings - Queensland Courts[/url] . Just know the name of the deceased and approximate date.As an example this one is about the replica spitfire crash - http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/337622/cif-uscinski-20141229.pdf

The coroner may order that the findings not be published on the website. Take 2012 for example, less than 60 published findings for the entire year, nor, for example does it include the dual fatality involving the Piper Sport , North of Bundaberg on 19th March 2012 ..... Bob

 

 

[seb7701]

The findings published on the Qld Courts website relate only to matters where an inquest was held, hence the 60 odd findings - nothing to do with orders from the coroner I would think.

 

Most other coronial matters are reported on to the coroner by police, (with RAA/ATSB etc assistance) and finalised. As such, the RAA simply needs to continue it's liaison with the coroners in the various jurisdictions to obtain details. Given that one of the primary purposes of the coroner is to prevent reoccurrence of similar incidents, it would be a rarity that findings would be much of a secret, that is once a matter is completed. Simple.

 

 

[facthunter]

Technical information is often sourced from people like our organisation. It's the technical aspects I would have thought would be more useful to us rather than some of the "recommendations" that often flow from some of these findings some of which are occasionally questionable. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Technical information is often sourced from people like our organisation. It's the technical aspects I would have thought would be more useful to us rather than some of the "recommendations" that often flow from some of these findings some of which are occasionally questionable. Nev

As we've discussed many times here, the Coroner finds the cause of death but we need to know the cause of the accident. ATSB is a much better resource.

 

 

[Yenn]

I know that the coroners reports are released, but that doesn't really help us to find the cause of an accident. We have to go searching for it months after the occurence. It would be good if RAAus released findings when they can legally do so. That way we would be informed of the causes of fatalities.

 

At the moment all we get is a half baked accident or incident report and when RAAus has added to it, it is not necessarily correct.

 

 

[Dinga]

Another Tragedy and my thoughts are with all those that knew either of of those involved.

 

From the point of view of someone like myself that is relatively new to Flexwing & low hours (through the HGFA) I always find myself looking for answers to everything, finding answers to my unknowns is part of what I hope will keep me safe.

 

I love flying and aviation and have done so since being a young kid which led me to a PPL and now to Trikes. The transition to Trikes was far harder than I expected and I constantly draw on the comments of those who have far more experience than I.

 

One of the most troubling aspects of RA to me seems to be lack of feedback from incidents such as this, and many have spoken of this in the posts above, however when someone still finding their way like myself hears about accidents such as this involving not just a high hours logged pilot but and Instructor and very well respected one too so it appears, I really do find myself questioning the wisdom of my decision to keep flying and seeking that level of experience.

 

Being a Technical type person, it is all about answers to me and I believe that not having concise answers as to what causes such accidents is really hurting the sport. I for one certainly am looking for, was it a wing failure, engine failure, dust devil, etc etc, how can we learn and some good, however small, come out of these incidents unless we have access to the cause? and regardless of whether we operate under RaAus or HGFA or anything else.

 

I would have thought that it is indeed in the public (or Aviation) interest to have at least the pertinent parts of any finding released by the Coroner in the interest of perhaps saving a life later.

 

There have been a large number of fatalities since I became involved in Trikes in recent years the accident is always in the news and after that I think I can honestly say I know the cause finding of pretty much none of them, perhaps I am just not looking in the right place...........

 

Stay safe guys..

 

 

[ave8rr]

I know that the coroners reports are released, but that doesn't really help us to find the cause of an accident. We have to go searching for it months after the occurence. It would be good if RAAus released findings when they can legally do so. That way we would be informed of the causes of fatalities.At the moment all we get is a half baked accident or incident report and when RAAus has added to it, it is not necessarily correct.

Have a change in the legislation so RAAus or other RAAO release the findings through the ATSB. They dont have to wait for a Coroners Report.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Another Tragedy and my thoughts are with all those that knew either of of those involved.From the point of view of someone like myself that is relatively new to Flexwing & low hours (through the HGFA) I always find myself looking for answers to everything, finding answers to my unknowns is part of what I hope will keep me safe.

 

I love flying and aviation and have done so since being a young kid which led me to a PPL and now to Trikes. The transition to Trikes was far harder than I expected and I constantly draw on the comments of those who have far more experience than I.

 

One of the most troubling aspects of RA to me seems to be lack of feedback from incidents such as this, and many have spoken of this in the posts above, however when someone still finding their way like myself hears about accidents such as this involving not just a high hours logged pilot but and Instructor and very well respected one too so it appears, I really do find myself questioning the wisdom of my decision to keep flying and seeking that level of experience.

 

Being a Technical type person, it is all about answers to me and I believe that not having concise answers as to what causes such accidents is really hurting the sport. I for one certainly am looking for, was it a wing failure, engine failure, dust devil, etc etc, how can we learn and some good, however small, come out of these incidents unless we have access to the cause? and regardless of whether we operate under RaAus or HGFA or anything else.

 

I would have thought that it is indeed in the public (or Aviation) interest to have at least the pertinent parts of any finding released by the Coroner in the interest of perhaps saving a life later.

 

There have been a large number of fatalities since I became involved in Trikes in recent years the accident is always in the news and after that I think I can honestly say I know the cause finding of pretty much none of them, perhaps I am just not looking in the right place...........

 

Stay safe guys..

If you are lucky, in some Coroners' reports there will be a summation of the Police Brief, but we never get that full document, which would contain all the measurements, photos, witness reports, advice received etc. So we go on, doing the same things and losing the next lot of people.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Have a change in the legislation so RAAus or other RAAO release the findings through the ATSB. They dont have to wait for a Coroners Report.

There has to be a way; something like you'vce suggested would be a good idea to investigate.

 

 

[Doug Evans]

I understand why we need this type of information

 

but at the end of the day the only one to keep you safe is yourself our instructors do the best they can to inform us of our chosen sport and at the end of the day the only way one get the skills is to use them we all have our limits and as we use these skill we learn those limits but they do come with risk even our instructor are learning as they grow older some times they get caught .

 

I have myself have lost in the last few years some very long time pilots and friends that both built aircraft and flown many types of crafts which I looked up to for guidance and use to think wow if these fellow could come unstuck then I be in trouble .

 

But I have learn from my friends mishaps that thing can and do go wrong no matter how long u have been at it .

 

The only way for us as as pilots is to understand that it is a risky sport that we all love the Loire of flight so we have a responablty to ourselfs to try and fly as safe as we can and enjoy the skills we have learnt and try to better yourself bye honing these skill so not to become one of the fallen aviators

 

Cheers Doug Evans

 

Respect too all the fallen friends of flight

 

RIP