Area Freq or Multicom?

[Dinga]

Guys,

 

I'd like to hear some comments on this one.

 

Going back to when I did a PPL we used to leave the airfield (albeit a GAAP zone) and generaly change frequency to the Area Frequency, doing so as the journey progressed.

 

I see now (certainly in several places I have been operating) that most people (Microlighting) seem to remain on or change to 126.7 once they leave their departure airfield for some local flying rather than use an area frequency.

 

I would be interested in opinions on this and maybe its down to a change in operations between my PPL and Microlight days ?

 

 

[coljones]

Guys,I'd like to hear some comments on this one.

 

Going back to when I did a PPL we used to leave the airfield (albeit a GAAP zone) and generaly change frequency to the Area Frequency, doing so as the journey progressed.

 

I see now (certainly in several places I have been operating) that most people (Microlighting) seem to remain on or change to 126.7 once they leave their departure airfield for some local flying rather than use an area frequency.

 

I would be interested in opinions on this and maybe its down to a change in operations between my PPL and Microlight days ?

Outside the vicinity of an ALA one should use the area frequency, for safety. There is always someone, whose job it is to care, listeningng on area. Not always the case with CTAF.

 

 

[Yenn]

There should be no question here what frequency you should use. CASA has laid it down that you use multicom if it is applicable for the airport. It will be shown on the charts and the correct frequency will be shownon the chart or in ERSA. If the airport / strip is not shown on the charts you must use area frequency. I know this seems stupid and I have queried CASA about this, but it is what the rules state.

 

If you go into an airstrip that is not shown on aan aviation chart and use 126.7 or some other frequency, you are not going to have a hope inhell of hearing anyone else correctly broadcasting on area frequency.

 

That is the rules, like it or not.

 

Where I fly, my strip is not on the chart so I must use 119.55 area frequency. Go 5 miles NW and I must be on 118.8 Gladstone multicom. 30 miles East and 126.7 for Agnes Waters and just 10 miles SE 126.7 for Miriam Vale which hasn't had an airstrip for more than 15 years, and by that time I need to change to a different area frequency. What happens at airstrips where the strip straddles 2 area frequencies?

 

CASA are supposedly going to look into the whole bag of worms to come up with something sensible, but don't hold your breath.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

CASA says that when flying above 5000ft you must have a radio and must be monitoring the area frequency. Below 5000ft it becomes a bit murkier, in more ways than one.

 

 

[Pearo]

CASA says that when flying above 5000ft you must have a radio and must be monitoring the area frequency. Below 5000ft it becomes a bit murkier, in more ways than one.

Where is that written? I have had a look for it and could never find it.

 

I am lucky enough to have 2 comms, so I can have the best of both worlds.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Whiles there is no clear rule it is generally accepted:

 

If equipped with a radio:

 

Above 3000 feet use area

 

At or below 3000 on 126.7

 

In a CTAF you should be on CTAF

 

Note some busy scenic or agricultural areas may have a secondary multicom channels. See ERSA

 

From RAA website

 

Class G airspace

 

There are no mandatory reports for VFR aircraft operating enroute in Class G airspace, thus after departing the airfield vicinity such aircraft are only required to maintain a listening watch on the "appropriate frequency" and announce if in potential conflict with other aircraft – see AIP ENR 1.1 para 60.1.

 

So what's the 'appropriate' frequency?

 

The local Flight Information Area frequency, if so, calls would be directed to Flightwatch, see below. (Frequency information blocks depicting Class E and G frequencies and the frequency boundaries are included on the Frequency Planning Chart [see below] and on the VNC and VTC.)

 

or a listening watch could be maintained on other specific frequencies;

 

or the distress frequency 121.5 MHz;

 

or if below 3000 feet agl then listen out on 126.7;

 

or when passing near the vicinity of a non-controlled or a towered airport the designated [otherwise 126.7] frequency for that airfield should be monitored to gain information on local traffic.

 

From http://www.pilotpracticeexams.com/courses/lesson/which-frequency-to-use/

 

In the CTAF

 

Use CTAF frequency -Check ERSA FAC section

 

Outside CTAF

 

Use flight information area frequency (FIA) if above 3000 or Multicom 126.7 if below 3000 – check your charts

 

Be aware Class E above Class G, often operate on separate frequencies. Green frequencies on the charts will indicate Class G , brown will indicate Class E

 

Flight Information Services (FIS)

 

If you request flight following the ATC will help you avoid controlled airspace and advise you of traffic. You may be assigned a unique transponder code and radio frequency. It is advisable to lodge a flight plan if requesting flight following. See ERSA

 

 

From AIP 1.1

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/aip/enroute

 

 

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Where is that written? I have had a look for it and could never find it.I am lucky enough to have 2 comms, so I can have the best of both worlds.

For RAAus it is written in CAO 95.55.

 

 

[Yenn]

If you look up CAO 95-55 you will see it is no longer in force.

 

I will look for the relevant rules.

 

 

[Yenn]

Havn't found much, CASA is a terrible site to negotiate unless you are fully conversant with it.

 

Fo;;owing is an extract from CAAP 166-1 (2)

 

6.6.2 At aerodromes where the carriage of radio is not mandatory, pilots of radio-equipped aircraft should monitor the CTAF and, at a minimum, broadcast their intentions in accordance with the minimum calls set-out in Section 7.3 of this CAAP. Good airmanship also implies that pilots should monitor and broadcast their intentions on the relevant Area Frequency when operating at aerodromes not in ESRA or marked on charts.

 

I am assuming that ESRA should read ERSA.

 

Also have a look at 7.4.1 of this Advisory publication, where it spells out that RAAus call signs should be the 4 digits rather than as RAAus says two double digit numbers. ie my call sign is Corby Starlet Three Six Four Four. Not Thirty Six Fourty Four.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

If you look up CAO 95-55 you will see it is no longer in force.I will look for the relevant rules.

I think you will find CAO 95.55 is still in force, at least raaus still has plenty of references to it in the ops manual. But I was wrong, CAO 95.55 para 8.4 only says that above 5000 an RAAus aircraft must carry a serviceable radio and the pilot be authorized to use it. Therefore RAAus aircraft would have to follow the same murky rules GA aircraft follow. Common sense would say that above 5000 ft the CTAF freq is of no use, monitor Area. My radio can listen to two frequencies so it's easy.

 

 

[Dinga]

Excellent response and good to hear everyones comments.

 

I am talking here specifically about once you leave your ALA/CTAF. So for instance you take off as I do using 126.7 for our field then leave the circuit area and head along the coast. Now lets say you are in between ALAs, are you using the Area Freq or 126.7? (assuming you are below 5000') This also would affect when you are transiting past another ALA, at what point when passing another CTAF would use their frequency, 5nm? 10nm?.

 

I too have seen in the VFR Guide words to the effect that if below 5000' 'another freq may by used'. I have not seen anything relating to 3000' but thanks I will check.

 

Then comes the question that is raised by Coljones comment

 

Outside the vicinity of an ALA

So, what is the definition of 'outside', Circuit Area?, 3nm?, 5nm, 10nm? and I believe above overfly height or above that at which conflict may occur.

 

Anyway, good hear the comments guys.

 

 

[DrZoos]

 

Thats the only reference i can find other than in guides.

 

AIP GEN 2.2 definitions vicinity is 10nm

 

CAR 166

 

166 Operating in vicinity of a non-controlled aerodrome

 

(1) For this regulation and regulation 166A, an aircraft is in the vicinity

 

of a non-controlled aerodrome if it is within:

 

(a) airspace other than controlled airspace; and

 

(b) a horizontal distance of 10 miles from the aerodrome; and

 

© a height above the aerodrome reference point of the aerodrome

 

that could result in conflict with operations at the aerodrome.

 

 

[nathan_c]

Also have a look at 7.4.1 of this Advisory publication, where it spells out that RAAus call signs should be the 4 digits rather than as RAAus says two double digit numbers. ie my call sign is Corby Starlet Three Six Four Four. Not Thirty Six Fourty Four.

That paragraph isn't telling you at all that you shouldn't be grouping your numbers, as far as I am reading it anyway. All it is saying is that RA aus call signs include an aircraft type and a group of numbers, as opposed to ga aircraft which are letters, or airline/mil callsigns which will be different again.

 

Continue not grouping if you wish, that's your choice, but don't be fooled into thinking that's what that caap is advising you to do.

 

 

[Downunder]

Officially, I believe you should be on "area" 10 nm or more from a designated ctaf.

 

However, for me, 99.9% of chatter on "area" is irrelevant and I find myself tuning out.

 

The ctaf frequencys of where I'm going to and from seem much more relevant as I can tell who is taking off behind me, who it taking off from the airport I'm inbound to and potential conflicts arising from that.

 

Fast movers, fly doc and rpt also put ctaf calls in generally 25 to 30 miles out which is great.

 

I'm lucky like some of the others in that I can monitor 2 channels.

 

 

[Yenn]

I have found what I was lookiing for in the AIP. Dated Aug 2016.

 

1-1-72

 

45.1.1

 

(a) This says basicly in the area of an airfield shown on the charts, use the discrete frequency.

 

ie for Gladstone use 118.8

 

(b) Where there is no discrete frequency on the charts, use Multicom 126.7

 

©In all other cases use area frequency.

 

The normal interpretation is that for an airfield not shown on a chart you should use area frequency.

 

I have not put the actual wording from the AIP, only a breakdown. have a look for yourself on the CASA site or if you run Avweb, in the text part of the screen.

 

 

[dutchroll]

7.3.1 When departing or arriving at non-controlled aerodromes, pilots should monitor their radios and broadcast their intentions in accordance with the following and paragraph 7.3.4:

 

•  When at or near a non-controlled aerodrome or in a Broadcast Area with a CTAF, including those assigned Multicom 126.7, listen and broadcast as necessary on the published frequency.
   
   
  
•  When at or in the vicinity of non-controlled aerodromes marked on charts that have not been assigned a discrete frequency, use Multicom 126.7.
   
   
   
  
•  When operating at aerodromes not depicted on aeronautical charts, pilots should monitor and broadcast their intentions on the relevant Area VHF.
   
   
  

 

 

If you're not "at or in the vicinity of" the aerodrome, you should be monitoring the applicable area frequency.

 

In the vicinity: An aircraft is in the vicinity of a non-controlled aerodrome if it is within:

 

•  airspace other than controlled airspace; and
   
   
  
•  a horizontal distance of 10 NM from the aerodrome (reference point); and
   
   
  
•  a height above the aerodrome (reference point) that could result in conflict with operations at the aerodrome.
   
   
  

 

 

 

CAAP 166-1(3)

 

Any local special procedures in ERSA of course override this.

 

 

[Dinga]

Dutchroll, this is the only thing that casts a level of ambiguity on the rules as per your post.

 

Seems that whilst the rule is quite clear perhaps this statement is why i find many people flying around on local 'joy' flights using only the CTAF Frequencies and not changing to an Area Freq when appropriate.

 

 

 

[coljones]

Dutchroll, this is the only thing that casts a level of ambiguity on the rules as per your post.Seems that whilst the rule is quite clear perhaps this statement is why i find many people flying around on local 'joy' flights using only the CTAF Frequencies and not changing to an Area Freq when appropriate.

 

[ATTACH=full]47126[/ATTACH]

Where is this from? AIP is prime, CAAP is advisory.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Always remember <5000ft in class G, radio is not mandatory - so lookout is important.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Where is this from? AIP is prime, CAAP is advisory.

Sort of.

CAAPs have no technical legal standing themselves which is why CASA puts the "advisory" legal disclaimer on them, but they are designed to summarise and explain the requirements of the legal documents such as CARs, CAOs, etc. they provide a list of the applicable references at the end which you can look up.

 

Ignoring a current CAAP just because you can't find the corresponding reference is most unwise, in my opinion. You do it at your own risk.

 

 

[coljones]

Sort of.CAAPs have no technical legal standing themselves which is why CASA puts the "advisory" legal disclaimer on them, but they are designed to summarise and explain the requirements of the legal documents such as CARs, CAOs, etc. they provide a list of the applicable references at the end which you can look up.

 

Ignoring a current CAAP just because you can't find the corresponding reference is most unwise, in my opinion. You do it at your own risk.

Yenn's was attributed to AIP, yours to CAAP - GOOD. Dinga's wasn't attributed to anything - NOT SO GOOD.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Ye Gods all you "sea lawyers" Common sense will tell you you should be on the CTAF/airfield frequency within & from 10Nm (inbound call) or overflying close to 1500ft above airfield height. If possible monitor Area Frequency at the same time for conflicting aircraft or relevant ATC comm . Gliders would seem to be a "law unto themselves" and the possibility of powered aircraft without, faulty or wrong frequency radio, always exists so SEE & AVOID.

 

Personally, while remaining on Area Frequency, I monitor CTAF from about 20 Nm inbound and when overflying close to any airfield (even @ 9500ft, if radio quiet I will make a GDay call). I switch over to CTAF just before 10Nm and monitor Area until joining the circuit down wind.

 

 

[Dinga]

Where is this from? AIP is prime, CAAP is advisory.

Hi Coljones your back :-)

 

it was actually from a VFR Flight Guide, although it looks like it may have been removed or relocated in the latest version of VFRG. but I am guessing that its roots are back in one of the other docs, I'll check.

 

Ref Docs: VFRG 2014, VFRG March 2015. :-)

 

 

[Dick Gower]

The change that is causing all of the confusion was made by CASA in May 2013 via AIP amendment #75. The change required broadcasts at aerodromes not on charts to be made on the Area VHF instead of the MULTICOM (126.7) as previously.

 

There was no stakeholder consultation and therefore no opportunity for users to point out to CASA the unintended consequences of the change.

 

There was no education process either so very few knew about it and we had the ridiculous situation where ATS were telling pilots to vacate the area frequency when making broadcasts. So not even ATS knew what was going on.

 

The idea of using the area VHF is flawed and dangerous in the view of many. This is because, over large areas of the country, ATS has no VHF coverage at the lower levels of G airspace so pilots making these broadcasts do not realise they are jamming ATS transmissions and ATS do know they are being jammed. Traffic at flight levels however hear the entire cacophony.

 

The RAPACs (a user consulting group in each region) have been battling this for three years.

 

There is a presentation available to explain the situation. It is too large to upload to this site but if you would like a copy, email me at: [email protected]

 

 

[Yenn]

We may all agree that the current situation is flawed, but we still have to abide by the rules. If you are involved in an incident and have a radio in the plane, you could be in strife if you were not monitoring the correct frequency. Do the right thing, because if you don't and I do we are not going to hear each other.