Proposed Ban for flights over Melbourne

[Marty_d]

And?Denmark is a tiny place with huge windswept highland areas, think the North Sea. Population 6 million in a place smaller than Tasmania. 1/4 of the population live in one city alone. Also the bulk of the population live in a reasonably tight area that would be covered by the same area covered by Newcastle, Sydney to Woolongong.

 

Infrastructure is easy and cheap as the place is so small and millions can be serviced easily. Hell, a bunch of Bunnings extension cords would about cover it.

 

Australia is NOTHING like that. Denmark is a stupid argument often quoted by Australian climate hysterics not taking into account, well, not taking into account anything at all.

 

[ATTACH=full]47163[/ATTACH]

Well thanks for that description Bex, guess I'd rather be a "climate hysteric" than someone who refuses to accept the science.

 

No, Australia is physically nothing like Denmark. They've got wind. We've got sunlight. And yes we're a big country but of our 25 million, 14 million live in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Arguing with a left wing greenie is like trying to have a sensible discussion with Hanson-Young, some people still believe it is achievable.

 

 

[Vev]

I have sent the letter below to my local member. Hopefully others on this site will agree enough to send something along the same lines to their members. If we don't speak up then the silliness will get passed.

I write to you, my local member, to ask that you vote against the “Air Services Amendment Bill 2016” recently proposed by Adam Bant in the House of Representatives. The proposed legislation is poorly thought through, illogical and asks for things that already exist. This bill, if implemented, will have a significant negative impact on general aviation in Melbourne and Australia more generally.

 

 

 

The proposed bill contains an amendment that would prohibit aircraft from flying within 5km of Melbourne at a height less than 2000m. This would mean that small aircraft ravelling west from Moorabbin airport or into Essendon airport would be required to operate through the controlled airspace associated with the large transport aircraft around Tullamarine airport. Small aircraft operating in this area are already required to operate above 1000 feet under the civil aviation regulations. At such a height the noise emitted from a small aircraft is significantly less than other general city noises like trams and vehicle traffic. The proposal unnecessarily restricts aircraft movements for no benefit.

 

 

 

The proposal to allow for anyone affected in any way by air traffic to require Airservices Australia to review flight paths is unworkable. This would divert the limited resources of Airservices Australia into endless reviews even where no adverse impact to people on the ground is demonstrated. It will provide the opportunity for vexatious complaints to clog up the system diverting resources away from Airservices Australia’s other essential tasks.

 

 

 

The proposed legislation also asks for the creation of an “Aircraft Noise Ombudsman” despite the fact that such an organisation already exists to resolve complaints about aircraft noise.

 

 

 

Please don't vote for this proposed amendment.

Hi Nobody,

 

Good on you for writing to your member.

 

Btw ... it is Adam Bandt (not Bant).

 

I have just read the Bill .... my interpretation of it says it is not just the CBD limited to 2000m, it is all of Melbourne Residential Areas (See 10B (2) (a)) and makes no allowance or exemption for aircraft taking-off or landing.

 

The whole thing is a complete nonsense!

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

16198Bandt.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf.pdf

 

16198Bandt.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf.pdf

 

16198Bandt.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf.pdf

[bexrbetter]

Well thanks for that description Bex, guess I'd rather be a "climate hysteric" than someone who refuses to accept the science.

Well it merely offsets the constant "Climate Denier" barbs out there.

 

Oh I accept the science, some of it is very interesting, difference is I review BOTH sides and trim off the radical ends, it's called being "balanced and objective". It's something I've learnt to do since being in China and laughing at all the sad lies about here, maybe you should actually question the next time someone starts throwing doom and gloom around - but only in the interest of the truth, either way, rather than just blindly believing it.

 

But mostly I strongly object to countless billions being spent by self serving Political Parties, not in the interest of real science, but to satisfy the Climate Hysterics and avoid Social Media hangings. We could save Australia 10's of millions by merely banning The Greens from Facebook.

 

I have Nieces, Daughters and GrandDaughters, I am very keen for them to have clean air and water in their futures and take an active interest to that goal.

 

We've got sunlight.

And yes we're a big country but of our 25 million, 14 million live in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide.

But then we'll have no power at night when we most need lights.

 

The ALP can't justify their economic math for a 50% reduction, it's been laughed at by everyone, even solid ALP Members internally, and even though it's a policy, they quietly dropped it publically 6 months before the Election, so let me know how The Greens are going to pay for all this sunshine power, storage capacity and infrastructure ...

 

Oh and I'm currently pushing on Social Media, and I'm writing to my Member about Illegal Immigrants. I reckon as The Greens push the hardest for Illegal Immigrants (official title by the way, once they have passed through a country that will accept them they are no longer Refugees) and the greatest number of The Greens per head live in Tasmania, then we send all Illegal Immigrants to Tasmania. Good fit, logical and everyone's happy.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Arguing with a left wing greenie is like trying to have a sensible discussion with Hanson-Young, some people still believe it is achievable.

'Ang about a bit Frank. . . my mate Todd at the flying club is a supporter of everything renewable, well,. . solar isn't a lot of good here in the UK really, as the source isn't visible for most of the year. . . however, he is delighted about our two new 500 ft turbines recently erected off the end of our Rwy 25,. . . NOW he has been bragging like hell that he won a serious amount of money at the bookies, by betting on Donald Trump for POTUS Last year. . .Says that Trumpy is 'Brilliant'. He told me that his win was around $20,000 . . as he his a yank working a contract here for Hewlett Packard. . . He says he has a picture of Margaret Thatcher back home in Oregon, . . .this is a rabid RIGHT WING Climate bloke. . . so I don't think they are all Lefties mate. . . . .'jus sayin' like. . . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

Oh I accept the science, some of it is very interesting, difference is I review BOTH sides and trim off the radical ends, it's called being "balanced and objective".

It would be, if there was a reasonable split of scientists studying this who disagreed on the cause and effects if unmitigated.

 

This is not the case. Around 97% of involved scientists agree that climate change is anthropomorphic and will result in damaging temperature rises (and all the nasty effects that causes) if action is not taken immediately to reduce carbon emissions.

 

The other 3% have not produced any credible, peer-reviewed proof to support their case.

 

I don't know about you Bex but I don't have the knowledge needed to create my own climate model and say whether or not it's real. Therefore I must trust that the vast majority of scientists who have been studying the climate for many years know what they're talking about. I consider that "balanced and objective."

 

But then we'll have no power at night when we most need lights.

That's why we need storage. Battery. Thermal (molten salt). Hydro. It's all doable.

 

so let me know how The Greens are going to pay for all this sunshine power, storage capacity and infrastructure ...

If we don't pay for it now, let me know how we're going to afford the much greater cost of unrestrained temperature rise. When agricultural land becomes unusable and fish stocks deplete because of ocean temperatures. You don't like asylum seekers? Well the Pacific Island nations who no longer have a home will be knocking on our door, and they're just the start. Have a look at the mid summer temperatures around the globe then add another 8-12 degrees to them, and see what populations will be shifting. Do the economics of not fixing this then tell me we're wasting money.

 

 

[robinsm]

OK so 3 volcanoes blow their top, seaweed rots and cows pass wind. How do you control that. Global warming has been shown to be a cyclic thing with only minor input from us short term residents. I am sure the stopping of noise over central Melbourne with help the Greens realise the ceasation of global warming, save the whales and stop windgenerators. Unfortunately the greens started with great ideals and now has become an unbrella for rent a mob and idealistic academics with very little real life experience. Talk to the farmers, talk to the people on the land, they know what is needed. Not some bunch of overpaid, navel gazing academics and arty wannabes. (present company excepted of course). Sorry, pushed my buttons, end of rant. Back to my cave.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Rob my bloody thoughts spot on them greens need to go to spec savers can't see and get hearing test can't hear a few idiots costing the masses millions Neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

Talk to the farmers, talk to the people on the land, they know what is needed.

Exactly. Farmers who've been on the land their whole life are seeing changes in when the growing season starts, soil temperatures and pH, weather patterns and extreme weather events.

So at one end you have scientists modelling climate change and telling you what the effects will be. At the other end you've got farmers starting to see these effects. At what point do you tell yourself "Hey perhaps this thing is real?"

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The elephant in the room is that Australia supposedly makes 1 - 1.5% of the worlds anthropogenic carbon dioxide but the figures thrown around that the entire world needs to drop are variously 50 % or more... So even if we could stop making 100% of our carbon dioxide it would achieve exactly nothing. We have to accept that what we do is symbolic and tokenism ...

If the world community perceives that Australia is not doing its fair share of the work to battle climate change they will expect us to take a big share of the climate refugees. The biggest movement of people in human history has already begun. Hundreds of millions of people will be displaced. They know Australia has lots of space. They know we are the biggest exporter of dirty coal. They know we are wealthy and have greatly reduced our spending on foreign aid. An interesting future.

 

 

[Nobody]

I wonder if they argue about aviation on the renewable energy forum?..

Perhaps I was being too subtle. I was trying to point out that if pilots won't look out for aviations interests do we really expect aviation to get any attention and support from anyone else. This thread is a classic example of how Australian Pilots won't band together to protect their interests. They are much happier squabbling about(but still important) non aviation topics.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

OK so 3 volcanoes blow their top, seaweed rots and cows pass wind. How do you control that. Global warming has been shown to be a cyclic thing with only minor input from us short term residents. I am sure the stopping of noise over central Melbourne with help the Greens realise the ceasation of global warming, save the whales and stop windgenerators. Unfortunately the greens started with great ideals and now has become an unbrella for rent a mob and idealistic academics with very little real life experience. Talk to the farmers, talk to the people on the land, they know what is needed. Not some bunch of overpaid, navel gazing academics and arty wannabes. (present company excepted of course). Sorry, pushed my buttons, end of rant. Back to my cave.

I agree with much of this, Robinsm. I disagree with much of the Greens' agenda, but (unlike the major parties) they're not in the pocket of global corporations and foreign governments. When the major parties have quietly backed legislation that only benefits global corporations, the Greens have been the ones we can trust to expose corruption in our system.

 

Claims donor laws corrupt as political donations near $1 billion

 

 

[Jaba-who]

If the world community perceives that Australia is not doing its fair share of the work to battle climate change they will expect us to take a big share of the climate refugees. The biggest movement of people in human history has already begun. Hundreds of millions of people will be displaced. They know Australia has lots of space. They know we are the biggest exporter of dirty coal. They know we are wealthy and have greatly reduced our spending on foreign aid. An interesting future.

And you think that if we are perceived to do our share they won't come?

 

Sorry but that makes no sense. They will come whether we do our bit or not.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I don't want to get into a circular argument Jaba, but the worst thing we can do is alienate the international community. We risk becoming a global pariah, as was Sth Africa during the Apartheid era. If we are seen to be "doing our bit" we may have some leverage in controlling the influx.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

We risk becoming a global pariah, as was Sth Africa during the Apartheid era..

You mean that time in ZA when rape, murders, car jackings and drugs use were low, jobs were high and the economy flourished.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Yep. When that time when people knew their place.

 

 

[coljones]

OK so 3 volcanoes blow their top, seaweed rots and cows pass wind. How do you control that. Global warming has been shown to be a cyclic thing with only minor input from us short term residents. I am sure the stopping of noise over central Melbourne with help the Greens realise the ceasation of global warming, save the whales and stop windgenerators. Unfortunately the greens started with great ideals and now has become an unbrella for rent a mob and idealistic academics with very little real life experience. Talk to the farmers, talk to the people on the land, they know what is needed. Not some bunch of overpaid, navel gazing academics and arty wannabes. (present company excepted of course). Sorry, pushed my buttons, end of rant. Back to my cave.

Volcanoes - much heat, ash, rocks and molten magma but not much CO2, the atmospheric blanket keeping heat. see Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans?. Other than that, burning fossil fuels and land clearing exacerbate CO2 production creating a more dense blanket and causing a steady, beyond cyclic, temperature rise.

I live under a YSSY flight path where they line up along my side fence at 1500 feet outbound to exotic climes. They are active from 6am to 10.30pm. I am prepared to accept them as I use them and an overflight reminds me that tomorrow may well be another flying day. However there are many who bought homes well before the NS runways were built who cop it as well. Some of them may well have worked in glass factories all their lives and would like a little respite from the industrial grade noise that has followed them into old age.

 

6000 feet, I would call that an ambit claim. The greens don't have any airspace management expertise and it would be up to these people to work out sensible solutions to real problems. It may well be that some GA Lanes over Melbourne might be a good idea. Gspace over Sydney - forget it, doesn't exist til you get beyond Bankstown and AirService are talking about bring Espace down to 1200ft in that area. That will really bugger ultralights who don't have transponders.

 

Another plane just went over - useless bugger can't fly, missed my side fence by 50metres

 

 

[robinsm]

So we agree that the greens with their proposed ban on flights over Melbourne are concentrating on the important things, Fantastic, now to get the unimportant things fixed like getting people into work, fighting drugs and stopping the general slide of society and the global moral meltdown. Oh, the economy may be thrown in there somewhere as well. Seriously, I think concentrating on inane minor things like this proposal are doing everyone a disservice. If you get people in work, they make money, spend it, dont get into as much trouble and buy aeroplanes. When that happens, maybe the noise level over the coffee shops of Melbourne may be considered as important, BUT NOT BEFORE.

 

I have worked in an industry that is in a major growth phase because of unemployment, drugs and illegal groupings. Tell the family that are doing it tough in the suburbs, have very little income and are living hand to mouth and see what their opinion of a late drinking, righteous, self serving greenie is and how they react to the proposed noise ban. I think food on the table and education and footwear for the kids is much more important and that is what the greens, and others should be working for. People dont matter anymore, its about who can get their name in the paper, high incomes and beggar the rest. I think a large section of the community need a reality check. The cave door is now definitely (maybe) closed.....

 

 

[coljones]

I wonder if they argue about aviation on the renewable energy forum?..

And no lead AvGas. Australia and a lot of the world have cleaned up petrol, both from lead and other nasties, while AvGas has only come down to LL.

Maybe our kids are falling down the academic ratings because their parents are renovating old houses and exposing the family to lead poisoning.

 

 

[coljones]

.......Fantastic, now to get the unimportant things fixed like getting people into work, fighting drugs and stopping the general slide of society and the global moral meltdown. Oh, the economy may be thrown in there somewhere as well. .....

Isn't that what the LNP and ALP were supposed to have been doing for years ... still waiting!!

[robinsm]

Correct Col, I agree wholeheartedly, but it does not excuse this other cr.p.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Step one to the solution. Cancel baby bonus. Introduce no child bonus. Reduce population growth. Overpopulation is a root cause of the other problems. The illusion of eternal growth is just a form of pyramid selling economy. Improve world education levels instead of bombing the baddies. Encourage birth control world wide.

 

 

[Nobody]

Step one to the solution. Cancel baby bonus. Introduce no child bonus. Reduce population growth. Overpopulation is a root cause of the other problems. The illusion of eternal growth is just a form of pyramid selling economy. Improve world education levels instead of bombing the baddies. Encourage birth control world wide.

How does that prevent the closure of the Melbourne airspace?

 

 

[Marty_d]

How does that prevent the closure of the Melbourne airspace?

Not as many people complaining.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

How does that prevent the closure of the Melbourne airspace?

Less babies being woken up.

 

Isn't that what the LNP and ALP were supposed to have been doing for years ... still waiting!!

The downside of the Climate stuff, they must love that they can start up a large public brawl over it to take the emphasis of real day to day problems.

 

A cynic might say they actually get together and plan it to be so ....