Helicopter down in Sydney bushland - all safe

[red750]

Helicopter makes emergency landing in Royal National Park

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Reckons his training helped. A bit of luck there too. Not a very big clearing. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

Rule 1...when all else has failed, keep flying the bloody aircraft.

 

He did an excellent job setting up autorotation immediately and getting it on the ground.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Downunder]

Reckons his training helped. A bit of luck there too. Not a very big clearing. Nev

I'm thinking there was NO clearing there before he landed.....lol.

 

 

[ian00798]

I would say very well done, he got the helicopter on the ground the right way up and everyone lives to fly another day. An insurance company is now the proud owner of a slightly used R44 and the armchair experts now get their chance to chime in and say how if it was them they would have done a much better job.

 

But in all seriousness very well done to that pilot, regardless of what the cause was they did a good job to make it survivable.

 

 

[scotsman]

Great job from the pilot. Can't have been a great feeling to have your kid and grandkid in the heli with you when it happened.

 

Very hard to judge the right auto flare height when you don't know the height of the scrub.

 

 

[BLA82]

Awesome effort

 

 

[planedriver]

I've always had my doubt's about Robbo's rightly or wrongly, but the outcome is all that everyone could wish for.

 

Probably including his insurance Co.

 

 

[WayneL]

Was cheesed off by the 7 news story and lead up ads decribing it as a helicopter crash. On seeing the vision and realising that it was a well controlled auto with what appeared to be little if any damage, I shook my head everytime they said it crashed. Then there was hope in the main news story they went on to describe how the engine power was lost then the heli entered an auto rotation descent............To a controlled Crash!

 

Wayne.

 

 

[Flying Officer Kite]

Was cheesed off by the 7 news story and lead up ads decribing it as a helicopter crash. On seeing the vision and realising that it was a well controlled auto with what appeared to be little if any damage, I shook my head everytime they said it crashed. Then there was hope in the main news story they went on to describe how the engine power was lost then the heli entered an auto rotation descent............To a controlled Crash!Wayne.

Yup... the old Editor's catchcry - "never let the facts get in the way of a good story". That and the appalling general ignorance of anything that isn't celebrity-related on the part of so many of today's so-called journalists.

- Mike

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yup... the old Editor's catchcry - "never let the facts get in the way of a good story". That and the appalling general ignorance of anything that isn't celebrity-related on the part of so many of today's so-called journalists.- Mike

What's the G rating of an R44 autorotation forced landing?

 

 

[facthunter]

Anything's (load wise) is possible if you get it wrong. I used to watch them at Canberra Airport and done right it's as good as any arrival can be. A Robbo wouldn't have much inertia in the lightweight blades. Makes it much more critical. Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Anything's (load wise) is possible if you get it wrong. I used to watch them at Canberra Airport and done right it's as good as any arrival can be. A Robbo wouldn't have much inertia in the lightweight blades. Makes it much more critical. Nev

Not quite correct. You have to specify which type of robbo. For instance R 22s are very different to this model (R 44)

 

22 blades are very low inertia ( later ones heavier than early ones) but 44 blades are quite high. About same as a jet ranger.

 

When I was doing my 44 endorsement the instructor showed me a "re-take off" on the stored inertia. Landed a smooth and no delay auto - then pull pitch and bought it back to a two foot hover for a few seconds then it settled back onto the ground. He used to fly Hueys and said that in those you could pull back up to the hover do a 360 degree pedal turn and set it back down again.

 

 

[facthunter]

I only had info on the light ones and the comments around then. Being able to do what you describe shows the extra energy available This would be a slight overspeed. Do you call it that and a higher ROD would be used than normal? Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I only had info on the light ones and the comments around then. Being able to do what you describe shows the extra energy available This would be a slight overspeed. Do you call it that and a higher ROD would be used than normal? Nev

As best I recall the rotor rpm was in the usual position for an auto ( at the "top of the green". I think that was the point of him demonstating it - That is: for a normal auto if it is done smoothly and without delay there is a lot of inertia stored in the blades. (Contrasting with the 22 which even if you do a really smooth auto you will be running out of rpm as you touch down.)

 

 

[Akromaster]

Apart from doing a fantastic job and the technicalities that go with it, I can only imagine what would have been going through the pilots mind, given the passengers and especially the little boy that was onboard.

 

 

[facthunter]

Being very occupied with the problem helps thinking about passengers. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

It's called Just keeping a head of the aircraft Neil

 

 

[scotsman]

Not quite correct. You have to specify which type of robbo. For instance R 22s are very different to this model (R 44)22 blades are very low inertia ( later ones heavier than early ones) but 44 blades are quite high. About same as a jet ranger.

When I was doing my 44 endorsement the instructor showed me a "re-take off" on the stored inertia. Landed a smooth and no delay auto - then pull pitch and bought it back to a two foot hover for a few seconds then it settled back onto the ground. He used to fly Hueys and said that in those you could pull back up to the hover do a 360 degree pedal turn and set it back down again.

I stand corrected but on the R22 you have 1.2. Seconds to drop the collective to enter the auto before catastrophic blade stall (ie. where the rotor RPM is unrecoverable) whereas the R44 is around 4 seconds if I recall correctly. To Jaba's point the 44 has good blade inertia comparatively to other types.

 

 

[scotsman]

We practice autos in the green rotor RPM section but practically in a real auto you will likely slightly exceed the green band to store more energy in the blade for the final yank on the collective which gives you more options.

 

If I remember correctly a small rotor overspeed only requires a visual inspection post event whereas over 110% I think that it is a strip down.

 

 

[Chocolate]

I am full of admiration for this pilot. Well executed auto rotation with not much height to boot,

 

Scotsman. Why oh why even think about going past top of green with rotor rpm. Risking failure of parts imho Making your situation worse.

 

By the way what do you think about the news reports. Maybe are a bit confusing..pilot said loss of power and hydraulic failure rather than engine stopped. Fuel starvation? I understand no engine no hydraulics.

 

Anyone like to speculate on the causal part?

 

 

[M61A1]

I am full of admiration for this pilot. Well executed auto rotation with not much height to boot, Scotsman. Why oh why even think about going past top of green with rotor rpm. Risking failure of parts imho Making your situation worse.

 

By the way what do you think about the news reports. Maybe are a bit confusing..pilot said loss of power and hydraulic failure rather than engine stopped. Fuel starvation? I understand no engine no hydraulics.

 

Anyone like to speculate on the causal part?

From what I have read, not all R44's have a hydraulic system and those that do are similar to the B206, inasmuch as you can turn the hyds off and still fly it, although the failsafe is to "ON" in case of a power failure, meaning power is required to power the "hyd off" solenoid". The hyd pump is always driven from the main rotor transmission so hyd power is available while you rotors are turning.

Not sure about R44 rigging, but with B206s the max auto RPM is adjusted in the rigging.

 

I have spend quite a bit of time in the back seat of a B206 in full autorotation and collective on the floor, with the maintenance test pilot leaning into the middle, tapping the gauge, and hearing "does that look like 365 to you?" over the intercom.

 

 

[scotsman]

I am full of admiration for this pilot. Well executed auto rotation with not much height to boot, Scotsman. Why oh why even think about going past top of green with rotor rpm. Risking failure of parts imho Making your situation worse.

 

By the way what do you think about the news reports. Maybe are a bit confusing..pilot said loss of power and hydraulic failure rather than engine stopped. Fuel starvation? I understand no engine no hydraulics.

 

Anyone like to speculate on the causal part?

Helicopter flying, like most types of flying but overtly so, is a risk management trade off process (like flying within the HV curve to a confined area landing whilst attempting to limit the chance of vortex ring state occurring). The chance of blade failure when cresting the red line is very small and the benefits of extra energy in the touch down on what will likely not be a great auto surface. In a 44 this might not be necessary but in a 22 I would definitely bank the additional RRPM as this will translate to survivability.

 

If you were to read on a variety of sites like pprune or just chatting to some heli instructors you would see that rotor overspeeds do happen and whilst some cause no damage others require maintenance, however you do not hear about minor incursions over the red line equating to blade failure and therefore the better of the two risks to accept.

 

Extra RRPM is likely to provide better cushioning from spinal injuries as it provides addition energy at one of the critical points of the auto to reduce vertical impact forces. In training we have all pulled off really nice top of the green autos to the deck but in a real world engine failure with the associated stressors your performance is not likely to be as finessed as with an instructor beside you over a nice pad or piece of runway on a lovely day into wind to full down auto into. I believe that most pilots in a real life auto will write off the heli so practically speaking for the lower hours types like myself it is about reducing impact forces and thus increasing survivability.

 

In short serious spinal injuries with the opportunity to burn at the crash site in a 22 or a blade overspeed under 110% which would not result in blade failure.

 

Out of interest do you/did you fly helis Chocolate?

 

 

[Chocolate]

YEP.

 

 

[scotsman]

From what I have read, not all R44's have a hydraulic system and those that do are similar to the B206, inasmuch as you can turn the hyds off and still fly it, although the failsafe is to "ON" in case of a power failure, meaning power is required to power the "hyd off" solenoid". The hyd pump is always driven from the main rotor transmission so hyd power is available while you rotors are turning.Not sure about R44 rigging, but with B206s the max auto RPM is adjusted in the rigging.

I have spend quite a bit of time in the back seat of a B206 in full autorotation and collective on the floor, with the maintenance test pilot leaning into the middle, tapping the gauge, and hearing "does that look like 365 to you?" over the intercom.

As you say the 44 will have hydraulics in an engine failure as I understand that it is driven by the main rotor gearbox as opposed to directly from the engine. I have only just started doing a conversion to the Bell 47G and apparently in an engine failure in that type you lose hydraulics too as it it driven by the engine.

 

Knowing how much of a handful it can be to land a heli with the hydraulics off I'm not sure how good my chances would be trying to do it in an auto with the hydraulics off!