Ozrunways Winds

[Captaincoop]

Don't bother with that, just choose the chart for your flight and its self explanatory

 

 

[kaz3g]

BTW Kaz, I'm in Shep at present with friends. One of them tells me that a new airport site has been proposed just off the Old Dookie road near Pine Lodge. Any tips when that might eventuate?Dave

Been a lot of rumours, Dave, but Copolous just invested a lot of money in a new hangar for his Citation at the existing Airport and, if anyone is in the know, it has to be him.

 

Personally, I think it is a long way off because the cost will be huge and there isn't a significant demand for either commuter pax services or freight at this point in time. Two hours from Melbourne by truck and a tad more to Avalon sort of kills it unless some high value product comes along for direct export OS.

 

That said, the Council seems intent on building the current airport in with residential developments all around it. Going to be interesting when someone's noise stops unexpectedly. The stupidity of it is that just a few years ago Council could have acquired land cheaply to extend both the main and cross strips. Instead they allowed it all to be subdivided. Have to wonder about the influence some landowners appear to have on our elected representatives and the statutory office holders.

 

Pop in to the club and have a coffee if you have time.

 

Regards

 

Kaz

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... the Council seems intent on building the current airport in with residential developments all around it. Going to be interesting when someone's noise stops unexpectedly. The stupidity of it is that just a few years ago Council could have acquired land cheaply to extend both the main and cross strips. Instead they allowed it all to be subdivided. Have to wonder about the influence some landowners appear to have on our elected representatives and the statutory office holders...Kaz

If the worst happens, Kaz, will those who made these short-sighted decisions be immune from prosecution?

 

 

[kaz3g]

If the worst happens, Kaz, will those who made these short-sighted decisions be immune from prosecution?

It seems to appen again and again as greedy councils eye off the acres of open space and there doesn't appear to be all that much that can be done to stop it...other than changing the elected representatives.

 

At Shepparton, Council built a large hangar to encourage commercial activities and it was occupied for a number of years by the flying school/charter operator. Good thinking by Council you might say.

 

Then, rather surprisingly, the long-term tenant was evicted and the new tenant has now pulled down the old hangar (whIch was of substantial construction) and erected an even larger one.for his private jet. This wasnt a decision of Council but rather one by a Council officer.

 

The net effect is that the flying school and charter aircraft are now parked outside and have to be serviced elsewhere.

 

It seems to me that (1) money talks, and (2) a much more sensible decision benefiting both the previous tenant and the owner of the jet would have been to build the new hanga at the other end of the airfield where p,entry of land was available for the purpose.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Jaba-who]

When you say the GPS is spot on within seconds, is that from top of climb or enroute, because it constantly updates itself? I'm sure it is accurate at top of climb for a short flight of a couple of hundred miles (in Australia) What winds do you use for planning purposes?

In reality the altitudes I fly at mostly mean that climb is not more than a few minutes. I reckon I fly most of my flying at 3500 to 5500 ft So it doesn't change things much. But if I was spending a lot of time in the climb or descent then I'd answer your question by limiting it to en route.

 

As for planning - I now ignore winds completely in my planning. I used to consider them if there were forecasted strong headwinds ( in the days when my previous aircraft had limited endurance so fuel was a real consideration). Now days my fuel tanks far outstrip my bladder for endurance so I rarely have to consider the effect of headwinds on fuel.

 

But in reality the errors were so frequent in forecasted headwinds that they were no more helpful to consider them than not.

 

I plan using my still-wind TAS.

 

 

[Captaincoop]

In reality the altitudes I fly at mostly mean that climb is not more than a few minutes. I reckon I fly most of my flying at 3500 to 5500 ft So it doesn't change things much. But if I was spending a lot of time in the climb or descent then I'd answer your question by limiting it to en route.As for planning - I now ignore winds completely in my planning. I used to consider them if there were forecasted strong headwinds ( in the days when my previous aircraft had limited endurance so fuel was a real consideration). Now days my fuel tanks far outstrip my bladder for endurance so I rarely have to consider the effect of headwinds on fuel.

 

But in reality the errors were so frequent in forecasted headwinds that they were no more helpful to consider them than not.

 

I plan using my still-wind TAS.

Really? What is your TAS?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Really? What is your TAS?

Cruise TAS at 110 knots. Climb at 90 knots indicated.

 

Most legs I do I only travel about 2-3 hours at a time, on long trips. Sometimes 3 or 4 hours without a break, but not commonly.

 

When it comes down to holding planned track. Whether it was forecasted and its wrong or whether I plan on still wind and its wrong - it's still wrong. But Even If it the forecast wind is right you still have no more certainty that it's right than comparing Map-Ground as you do when you use still-air planning.

 

But I use the dynon/GPS, ipad (Ozrunways), hard copy map with a line drawn on it and bounce the info off all of them against each other and ineveitably follow the line on the GPS and have always got to the required spot at the other end.

 

The old hoary argument of "what if your GPS fails" is redundant now. If my GPS fails I go to my ipad. If that fails I go to my second iPad if that fails I go to my iphone and if that fails my passenger has their ipad and then their iphone.

 

I haven't flown (apart from local stuff) with less than 4 GPS in the aircraft for more than a decade and often 6 to 8 GPSs.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The old hoary argument of "what if your GPS fails" is redundant now. If my GPS fails I go to my ipad. If that fails I go to my second iPad if that fails I go to my iphone and if that fails my passenger has their ipad and then their iphone.I haven't flown (apart from local stuff) with less than 4 GPS in the aircraft for more than a decade and often 6 to 8 GPSs.

We get too reliant on GPS. After all, like the Internet and much other ubiquitous technology, it was set up by the military, who can and do degrade its signals (or switch it off) when it suits them. Whilever they're still available, I'll carry a paper map and compass as backup.

 

 

[Captaincoop]

Cruise TAS at 110 knots. Climb at 90 knots indicated.Most legs I do I only travel about 2-3 hours at a time, on long trips. Sometimes 3 or 4 hours without a break, but not commonly.

When it comes down to holding planned track. Whether it was forecasted and its wrong or whether I plan on still wind and its wrong - it's still wrong. But Even If it the forecast wind is right you still have no more certainty that it's right than comparing Map-Ground as you do when you use still-air planning.

 

But I use the dynon/GPS, ipad (Ozrunways), hard copy map with a line drawn on it and bounce the info off all of them against each other and ineveitably follow the line on the GPS and have always got to the required spot at the other end.

 

The old hoary argument of "what if your GPS fails" is redundant now. If my GPS fails I go to my ipad. If that fails I go to my second iPad if that fails I go to my iphone and if that fails my passenger has their ipad and then their iphone.

 

I haven't flown (apart from local stuff) with less than 4 GPS in the aircraft for more than a decade and often 6 to 8 GPSs.

Fair enough. We all use GPS nowadays. I have 5 for cross country and charts! The beauty of Avmap or Ozrunways is you don't (or shouldn't) need the GPS to be working. You still have the (digital) charts. Of course if the GPS sat system does fail (unlikely or very unlucky) or you are out of RAIM (I'm sure you check that as part of your preflight planning) then 100 GPS devices wouldn't help with positive position fix! That's why map reading skills are still basic airmanship.

 

I guess not planning for winds is ok if you never leave home without full tanks. I would have thought to do it that way would make more sense to plan on a lower TAS (like 90kts) to allow for unexpected winds then update enroute. Trouble is as I see it, with such slow speeds little wind is needed to have a large percentage effect on your ground speed. Like if you encounter a 22 knot headwind, there goes 20% more fuel than you banked on.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Fair enough. We all use GPS nowadays. I have 5 for cross country and charts! The beauty of Avmap or Ozrunways is you don't (or shouldn't) need the GPS to be working. You still have the (digital) charts. Of course if the GPS sat system does fail (unlikely or very unlucky) or you are out of RAIM (I'm sure you check that as part of your preflight planning) then 100 GPS devices wouldn't help with positive position fix! That's why map reading skills are still basic airmanship.I guess not planning for winds is ok if you never leave home without full tanks. I would have thought to do it that way would make more sense to plan on a lower TAS (like 90kts) to allow for unexpected winds then update enroute. Trouble is as I see it, with such slow speeds little wind is needed to have a large percentage effect on your ground speed. Like if you encounter a 22 knot headwind, there goes 20% more fuel than you banked on.

Yep you are right about the lowering the TAS for planning - Which is what I do. I drop it to 100 knots and that then generally buffers for small headwinds and gives a reserve. (added to which I have set up my fuel gauges so that even when they are showing empty I actually have about five litres in each tank (usable) plus the header tank of 6 litres (usable) so I have about 35 minutes at 2900 rpm.

 

Using the 100 knots for planning has an added bonus. At a quick glance of the planning table its easy to calculate cumulative distances or times across multiple legs and flights (do the whole 10 day flight as one flight of a series of legs and you can easily work out total flying times and distances.

 

Distances or times - every 100 miles is an hour and every hour is a 100 miles.

 

Have to admit I don't fly any distance often without starting with full tanks. Allows plenty of scope for holding, diverting etc.

 

 

[Captaincoop]

Yep you are right about the lowering the TAS for planning - Which is what I do. I drop it to 100 knots and that then generally buffers for small headwinds and gives a reserve. (added to which I have set up my fuel gauges so that even when they are showing empty I actually have about five litres in each tank (usable) plus the header tank of 6 litres (usable) so I have about 35 minutes at 2900 rpm.Using the 100 knots for planning has an added bonus. At a quick glance of the planning table its easy to calculate cumulative distances or times across multiple legs and flights (do the whole 10 day flight as one flight of a series of legs and you can easily work out total flying times and distances.

 

Distances or times - every 100 miles is an hour and every hour is a 100 miles.

 

Have to admit I don't fly any distance often without starting with full tanks. Allows plenty of scope for holding, diverting etc.

Yeah that makes sense and 100 is a good figure for quick calculations off the top of ones head. 60nm = 0.6 =36 minutes...perfect!

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

We get too reliant on GPS. After all, like the Internet and much other ubiquitous technology, it was set up by the military, who can and do degrade its signals (or switch it off) when it suits them. Whilever they're still available, I'll carry a paper map and compass as backup.

Even if the military degraded the GPS it would not effect us private/recreational pilots because we only need enough accuracy to get us to a waypoint or destination. In the days when GPS was 'degraded' 300 meters was the best we got, that's a long time ago. Today so much relies on GPS that if the 'they' pulled the big switch then they would be cutting their own throats and be facing an infinite number of pizzed off people. having said all that, I like my paper map and compass.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Today so much relies on GPS that if the 'they' pulled the big switch then they would be cutting their own throats and be facing an infinite number of pizzed off people...

Probably true; I love how you managed that clever reference to an industry that depends heavily on GPS: pizza delivery.

 

 

[DenisPC9]

Even if the military degraded the GPS it would not effect us private/recreational pilots because we only need enough accuracy to get us to a waypoint or destination. In the days when GPS was 'degraded' 300 meters was the best we got, that's a long time ago. Today so much relies on GPS that if the 'they' pulled the big switch then they would be cutting their own throats and be facing an infinite number of pizzed off people. having said all that, I like my paper map and compass.

Who pulls the Plug?

 

The US with its system

 

Europe with its incoming system

 

Russia with its incoming system

 

And I wouldn'd mind betting the Chinese are working on their own system

 

Short of a Space event, they all wont go offline simultaneously, there is lots of ego driving these things.

 

 

[Captaincoop]

Only six minutes but if you didn't check the RAIM and you were flying in the high country and didn't know how to map read because GPS is so reliable, I'd say six minutes would be a very long time

[ben87r]

[ATTACH=full]47683[/ATTACH] Only six minutes but if you didn't check the RAIM and you were flying in the high country and didn't know how to map read because GPS is so reliable, I'd say six minutes would be a very long time

That's for FDE tho, wouldn't have any effect on enroute or lower requirement approach.

 

 

[Captaincoop]

That's for FDE tho, wouldn't have any effect on enroute or lower requirement approach.

Quite right!