rmorton Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Its the same word by word! But the importeur is told to be a nice one, who realy cares about his builders. So, what the f... time will tell. But thats why I orders just Kit 1 b.I can't find the info about the numbers of clecos recommended. Can somebody give me a link? I'm also wondering about using corrosion protection. It can't hurt, so I guess everybody uses the supplied black stuff from ICP. But in the Zenair videos on the 750 and 650, there is no corrosion protection and they say you simply don't need it. Had a mail from ICP yesterday. Question was, which panel layout I wan't? Quite early to answer that question... I had to ask about the panel layout and decided to go with standard for now and maybe make my own later. You have me worrying about the clekos now. I will wait. till the kit is here and see what they include. When I spoke to both Centrenoyer and ICP they both said you must use the black paint on surfaces that are in contact with each other, but use it sparingly. After that as Marty_d says it depends on the use and environment you will keep the plane in. You can get Alodine from Aircraft spruce in Germany, but it isn't nice stuff. Do you have the name of the place where you are thinking of getting the clekos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 suggestion in the linked post: 150 x 5/32" Black 400 x 1/8" Copper 25 x 3/32" Silver best price europe Aircraft Spruce EU - 60,000 parts for aircraft and pilots 0,80€/St. best price USA: Brown Aviation & Aircraft Tools 0,36$ Guess I will ask the guys at browntool for a shipping price to germany. I'm afraid its a lot money. And custom is to be paid, too. I got no clue how it works. Heard about people, who traveled 200 km to get there parcel out of customs. I will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 suggestion in the linked post: 150 x 5/32" Black 400 x 1/8" Copper 25 x 3/32" Silver best price europe Aircraft Spruce EU - 60,000 parts for aircraft and pilots 0,80€/St. best price USA: Brown Aviation & Aircraft Tools 0,36$ Guess I will ask the guys at browntool for a shipping price to germany. I'm afraid its a lot money. And custom is to be paid, too. I got no clue how it works. Heard about people, who traveled 200 km to get there parcel out of customs. I will let you know. 0.36$US looks like a good price to me. Once you work through the business of importing your own parts, it shouldn't be difficult, and it's well worth it. Suggest you look into Transferwise, or something similar to avoid getting ripped off with exchange rates and transaction fees. It takes a little bit of setting up, but is very cost effective, and the money arrives overnight. Plenty of builds have been done with fewer clekos than quoted, but the more you have, the more neatly and firmly the assemblies are held together. Also the S takes more, especially in the rear fuse. Yes, it's a cost, but I took the view that I didn't want to be fighting the thing...and as a first time builder, I need all the help I can get! S rear fuselage with 400+ clekos in it. You're going to love it!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! And the clamp/s on the table edge are to prevent it falling off if we have more earthquake excitement: gotta get your life priorities right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Instead of a cleco, just stick a rivet in and only half pull it. Shouldn't be an issue for 'matched hole' assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 @IBob that looks realy nice! what is the size of your workbench? I was thinking to built mine 4,00 m x 1,00 m x 0,75 m ... what do you think? Thanks for the hint to try Transferwise. Any idea what the shipping cost of 500 clecos might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 @IBob that looks realy nice! what is the size of your workbench? I was thinking to built mine 4,00 m x 1,00 m x 0,75 m ... what do you think? Thanks for the hint to try Transferwise. Any idea what the shipping cost of 500 clecos might be? Thanks, MajorTom. My original bench was 4.8 x 1.2 x 0.9 high, being 2 sheets of ply: longer than it needed to be, but I had the room, and a bit of height is easy on the back for deburring and building the flat bits. At that length it had an unused end, which was nevertheless handy for parking manuals, tools, small deburring etc. Then I was told I would have to lower it to reach the high bits on the fuselage. So while doing that I also shortened it so I can hang the front fuse off the end, and narrowed it a bit, so I wasn't reaching so wide across. But this was done with the next owner in mind, as the table is going on to another Savannah build, so I measured a wing and made sure it was still big enough for that. It is now 4.0 x 1.1 x 0.75, and I would say an adequate size at that. And it happens that the box the kit comes in is 4.3 x 1.1 x 0.75, so building on the box top (as many have already done) would be fine. Shipping for my clekos was US$82 from US to New Zealand. They are quite heavy. On receipt there was also some duty etc. I need to point out that I am a novice, on my first build, and there are people on this site with far more knowledge than I. The cleko quantities I gave are just a generous average from the various advice I received. And, while I have been happy that I had that number, I expect there are builds that use less. The major difference from early builds would be the S fuselage, where you are clekoing all 4 curved 'corner' skins the full length of the fuselage: by the time I had all skins in place, I was using almost every Copper cleko I had. It is also nice to have plenty when doing the wings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 0.36$US looks like a good price to me.Once you work through the business of importing your own parts, it shouldn't be difficult, and it's well worth it. Suggest you look into Transferwise, or something similar to avoid getting ripped off with exchange rates and transaction fees. It takes a little bit of setting up, but is very cost effective, and the money arrives overnight. Plenty of builds have been done with fewer clekos than quoted, but the more you have, the more neatly and firmly the assemblies are held together. Also the S takes more, especially in the rear fuse. Yes, it's a cost, but I took the view that I didn't want to be fighting the thing...and as a first time builder, I need all the help I can get! S rear fuselage with 400+ clekos in it. You're going to love it!!![ATTACH=full]47717[/ATTACH] That fuselage is positively bristling with clekos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 That fuselage is positively bristling with clekos! It's every 3rd hole, at best, Hank. Sometimes every 4th. And you're pulling the curve into those corner skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 It's every 3rd hole, at best, Hank. Sometimes every 4th. And you're pulling the curve into those corner skins. I can see that I will have to order quite a few extra clekos when I start my build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I can see that I will have to order quite a few extra clekos when I start my build. Depending on your timing, you may get to buy increasingly experienced clekos second hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 .... It is now 4.0 x 1.1 x 0.75, and I would say an adequate size at that. And it happens that the box the kit comes in is 4.3 x 1.1 x 0.75, so building on the box top (as many have already done) would be fine. Shipping for my clekos was US$82 from US to New Zealand. They are quite heavy. On receipt there was also some duty etc. .... Bob, Have you ever used NZ Post's "Youshop"? I have used this several times for two kinds of shipments from the United States: (a) traders who won't send any items beyond "contiguous United States" or "North America"; and, (b) where the shipping costs are exorbitant. If you register with Youshop, NZ Post issues you with a unique US postal address. You then pay the trader for US postage (which is relatively cheap most of the time) and then NZ Post-cum-Youshop does the rest at a reasonable price. See: YouShop | New Zealand Post YouShop pricing | New Zealand Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Bob,Have you ever used NZ Post's "Youshop"? I have used this several times for two kinds of shipments from the United States: (a) traders who won't send any items beyond "contiguous United States" or "North America"; and, (b) where the shipping costs are exorbitant. If you register with Youshop, NZ Post issues you with a unique US postal address. You then pay the trader for US postage (which is relatively cheap most of the time) and then NZ Post-cum-Youshop does the rest at a reasonable price. See: YouShop | New Zealand Post YouShop pricing | New Zealand Post I've heard of this, but not yet used it, Hank. Although I shall: As I build, I am also putting together a list of bits and pieces, to be sourced near the end, hopefully all together. It would be interesting to know if the P&P for the clekos would be any less. It was a pretty heavy box. And on the plus side, I'm already ahead on the $$$, as I'm not making a fat donation to the banks by using a credit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 It is now 4.0 x 1.1 x 0.75, and I would say an adequate size at that.And it happens that the box the kit comes in is 4.3 x 1.1 x 0.75, so building on the box top (as many have already done) would be fine. Sounds like a real good idea. Just wondering if the surface is plan enough ( esp. twistfree ) Had some luck and discovered some steel parts that will make a good base structure for my bench. Intend to put film coated plywood on top, to which a have easy access. Guess it would also be good to have some drawers under the table 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorton Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 @IBob that looks realy nice! what is the size of your workbench? I was thinking to built mine 4,00 m x 1,00 m x 0,75 m ... what do you think? Thanks for the hint to try Transferwise. Any idea what the shipping cost of 500 clecos might be? Agreed! I like the way you have primed the rivet lines, and white is a good choice for internal areas too. As for clekos I have asked for a shipping cost from Browns so will let you know what they say, you can instantly add 20% vat though :( I will hold fire on the order until I have done the first assembly as I have plenty of time and am in no rush... other than to get started! I am now worrying about the transport as it has decided to snow here and that can last several weeks making a trip to Italy rather hazardous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 The Savannah does not need a precise flat surface for the build, and the box lid, with some simple reinforcement, would be more than adequate. I just thought it would be easier if I started with a big flat surface. And I'm all for easy! I am also spray priming as I go: the box has been good for laying out the skins for that, while the table is used for deburring and assembly. There's a heckuva lot in the box, and I made shelves (more ply) so I could spread out a lot of the smaller stuff. I also put in a single low shelf under my table. It can be pretty difficult for the novice to find the bits he is looking for, and spreading the parts out like this helps. I have also read of folk who cut across the centre of the lid, which gives them two sliding halves for access. Could work well if you are stuck for space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorton Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Sounds like a real good idea. Just wondering if the surface is plan enough ( esp. twistfree )Had some luck and discovered some steel parts that will make a good base structure for my bench. Intend to put film coated plywood on top, to which a have easy access. Guess it would also be good to have some drawers under the table at the factory they haver relatively short low benches with a plain plywood top and steel frame. the dealer explained that it doesn't really matter too much about flatness as the frames are self jigging and when all those clekos are in place the structure is square and rigid. I guess it would be a good idea to check all the same. I was going to get some of that felt protective cloth they use on floors to prevent scuffing and scratches to the aluminium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Agreed! I like the way you have primed the rivet lines, and white is a good choice for internal areas too.As for clekos I have asked for a shipping cost from Browns so will let you know what they say, you can instantly add 20% vat though :( I will hold fire on the order until I have done the first assembly as I have plenty of time and am in no rush... other than to get started! I am now worrying about the transport as it has decided to snow here and that can last several weeks making a trip to Italy rather hazardous. As Marty D said above, you will get a hundred different opinions on anti-corrosion/paint, some of them very fiercely held! I made my own decision on this, but it is only a 'best guess', and I hope will prove adequate. In my case, I am not going for a concours finish, neither am I trying to build an aircraft to last 50 yrs. I am also wanting to get into the air without too much delay, so my choice of paints etc is a deliberate compromise round all that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 at the factory they haver relatively short low benches with a plain plywood top and steel frame. the dealer explained that it doesn't really matter too much about flatness as the frames are self jigging and when all those clekos are in place the structure is square and rigid. I guess it would be a good idea to check all the same. I was going to get some of that felt protective cloth they use on floors to prevent scuffing and scratches to the aluminium. Most of my assembly has been done with the part resting on 50 x 50 battens wrapped in bubble wrap. This is to give clearance for the clekos sticking out the bottom. You can see them under the fuselage pics I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I have a stack of silver and copper clecoes sitting gathering rust in the shed (enough to build a Onex!). Free for anyone wishing to collect them from Hindmarsh Island (Goolwa), SA Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorton Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 I have a stack of silver and copper clecoes sitting gathering rust in the shed (enough to build a Onex!). Free for anyone wishing to collect them from Hindmarsh Island (Goolwa), SAPeter If we weren't snowed in I'd be right over 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 @IBob that looks realy nice! what is the size of your workbench? I was thinking to built mine 4,00 m x 1,00 m x 0,75 m ... what do you think? Thanks for the hint to try Transferwise. Any idea what the shipping cost of 500 clecos might be? I wrote here about overseas payments a while ago. Since then, I have used this service numerous times, for small and large amounts of money. It is excellent: very cheap, very fast (overnight) and with step by step email feedback. No, I don't have shares in the company, but the more of us use these 'new' services, the less we are propping up the traditional banking fatcats. Here is the link to my original worked example. The numbers tell the story: Overseas Purchases for the Ordinary Man, er Person 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorton Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 I have used this service to send money from Switzerland to the UK they seem to slightly over estimate the fees but then reimburse the real cost as the payment is made. It works very well and is quick and very cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I have used this service to send money from Switzerland to the UK they seem to slightly over estimate the fees but then reimburse the real cost as the payment is made. It works very well and is quick and very cheap. Yes, in some transactions, they cover themselves against shifts in the exchange rate in the manner you describe. It may be only over weekends, when there is a pause in the bank transfer parts of the process during which the rates may shift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I have a stack of silver and copper clecoes sitting gathering rust in the shed (enough to build a Onex!). Free for anyone wishing to collect them from Hindmarsh Island (Goolwa), SAPeter Thanks to Peter's kindness I have now become the recipient of these clecos via my Parents who live in Goolwa and are meeting me in a few weeks time in Sydney. I would only want a small number myself and the rest I would be able to offer in Sydney or Brisbane to anyone in need, and in between as I will be driving to Brissy and back (Pacific Hwy). Please PM me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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