Cessna down with 4 on board

[corvairkr]

Investigation: AO-2017-005 - Collision with terrain involving Cessna C172M, VH-WTQ, near Agnes Water, Queensland, on 10 January 2017

[kaz3g]

Interesting. Thanks corvairkr!

 

 

[facthunter]

There's not really much in it. Nev

 

 

[BLA82]

• at about 4 minutes flight time, the pilot conducted a series of manoeuvres including steep turns, steep climbs and descents, manoeuvres that were consistent with negative g3] and yawing4] the aircraft left and right
   
   
  
• after about 6 minutes flight time, and after a second series of yawing and other manoeuvres that were consistent with negative g, the engine power momentarily reduced before recovering
   
   
  

 

 

 

Looks like they never changed their attitudes

 

 

[Phil Perry]

If the saying below is true then the young backpackers may be slightly safer."Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

Spoken with much gravitas. . . . ( That's when Gravity can bite you on the A$$ )

 

 

[Teckair]

I wonder if these idiots realize when you go negative like that it doesn't just effect the passenger with the seat belt undone but the fuel in the tank and float chamber and the oil in the sump. All of which rely on a pick up at a low position and all are critical to the continued operation of the engine. And now someone is dead well done you wankers, hopefully CASA will act and appropriately.

 

 

[BLA82]

Teckair couldn't have said it better

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

Aeroplane Beach by the look of it and way up in the soft sand. I have landed there many times in the last 20 years. Good hard sand below high tide mark. The company doing flights into there has been active for many years and have also used the mainland beach East of Jenny Lind Creek. I didn't like the look of that area.I wonder if the Epirub activated or was the only advice from the other aircrafts Pan call.

A look at the history of this company might answer some questions.

Perhaps you should keep your opinions to yourself....I was following WTQ when it had an engine failure....Woody is a bloody good pilot and did his best as a result 3 people survived.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

I heard he clipped a tree, low flying. Will stand corrected if wrong. , Please let me know if anyone knows, exactly what caused the crash or what did the others see and say in the other aircraft.Very bad day for the pax.

Engine failure

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

Sad.I have flown with Bruce and landed on that beach with him. There is nothing inherently dangerous about landing on that beach (if you know what you're doing) and he and Woody have done it many times. I send my condolences to the family of the deceased, and a shout out in support for Bruce and Woody. I hope the others get well soon also.

Thanks Scott....there are just assholes out there in the aviation community who just can't wait to stick a knife in.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

I wonder if these idiots realize when you go negative like that it doesn't just effect the passenger with the seat belt undone but the fuel in the tank and float chamber and the oil in the sump. All of which rely on a pick up at a low position and all are critical to the continued operation of the engine. And now someone is dead well done you wankers, hopefully CASA will act and appropriately.

you know nothing....you should join CASA....you would fit right in!

 

 

[BLA82]

you know nothing....you should join CASA....you would fit right in!

I don't think there is any doubt with the video though just sayin

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

There is nothing flippant about the comments, and not a very satisfactory explanation of the serious crash so far.If this aircraft was low flying then the pilot stands a good chance of facing a manslaughter charge; if there was an engine failure, it would be in his interests to have a more detailed description of where it occurred.

Either way, there are some lessons to be learnt here, particularly since there has been a chequered history of beach landings in RA in recent years.

Thanks for the neutral support..Actually I mean that, if you are unaware of all the facts then you are perfectly entitled to comment as you have and I take no umbrage at that...this had nothing to do with a beach landing. Woody was carrying out a PSAL at 200 ft when the engine failed.....he had 150 metres of beach in front of him and water in front after that. Historically high wing aircraft with wheels down going into water have a very poor survival rate.......that is why we refused to do reef flights. He made the hard choice and brought it around and back to land on the sand. There was 53 litres of fuel on board, the engine just cut with no missing at all which indicates a break in fuel line or complete ignition failure, ATSB are investigating both of these options.

I was there and was capturing fuel as it drained to prevent it falling all over the occupants in the wreckage and administered CPR to the girl who died for over an hour.

 

I also flew out and brought paramedics back in.

 

I do hope that all those tall poppy arm chair judges I have now seen on this page are ducking for cover and cringing after the faceatious moralistic ill informed judgements they have dared to make.

 

And I would just be willing to bet they are also too gutless to apologise.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

I heard he clipped a tree, low flying. Will stand corrected if wrong. , Please let me know if anyone knows, exactly what caused the crash or what did the others see and say in the other aircraft.Very bad day for the pax.

Consider yourself corrected.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

I don't think there is any doubt with the video though just sayin

Really...you haven't seen the video and I have....that aircraft was in cruise descent for over 3 minutes when the engine just quit....I stand by my comments regarding someone like you who just can't wait to stand on a soap box and condemn a fellow pilot who undoubtedly has far more experience than you (Woody has around 3000 beach landings, I have around 15,000)...... as I said you have already demonstrated all the qualifications necessary to join CASA!

Take your foot out of your mouth and think twice in future before flapping your tongue.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Really...you haven't seen the video and I have....that aircraft was in cruise descent for over 3 minutes when the engine just quit....I stand by my comments regarding someone like you who just can't wait to stand on a soap box and condemn a fellow pilot who undoubtedly has far more experience than you (Woody has around 3000 beach landings, I have around 15,000)...... as I said you have already demonstrated all the qualifications necessary to join CASA!

Low Flyer 1770

I think he maybe referring to the negative g pushovers in you promo / YouTube videos that have been posted

 

I could be wrong but that's what I'm guessing

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks for the neutral support..Actually I mean that, if you are unaware of all the facts then you are perfectly entitled to comment as you have and I take no umbrage at that...this had nothing to do with a beach landing. Woody was carrying out a PSAL at 200 ft when the engine failed.....he had 150 metres of beach in front of him and water in front after that. Historically high wing aircraft with wheels down going into water have a very poor survival rate.......that is why we refused to do reef flights. He made the hard choice and brought it around and back to land on the sand. There was 53 litres of fuel on board, the engine just cut with no missing at all which indicates a break in fuel line or complete ignition failure, ATSB are investigating both of these options.I was there and was capturing fuel as it drained to prevent it falling all over the occupants in the wreckage and administered CPR to the girl who died for over an hour.

I also flew out and brought paramedics back in.

 

I do hope that all those tall poppy arm chair judges I have now seen on this page are ducking for cover and cringing after the faceatious moralistic ill informed judgements they have dared to make.

 

And I would just be willing to bet they are also too gutless to apologise.

What was the reason for the PSAL?

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

My guess is that the man from CASA was more interested in whether you flew the hi/lo speed passes at 50ft rather than 500ft. Once you decide to fly below 500ft - holding an ag, or a low level rating is a necessity. At a private fly-in, you don't have to be cleared by CASA to participate as a display pilot: but you do need to ensure your display doesn't endanger any other traffic or pose a potential danger to the non-aviation public present. If you plan to 'demo' an aircraft at a fly-in, be sure that you comply with the Regs, and all your paperwork is legit. happy days,

Clearly you have forgotten the requirement to do a PSAL when doing an outfield landing.....such as one where the tide has gone over the beach since you were last there....you will find that then you may descend below 500' within 3 nautical miles of the landing area... then we are taught to do a 500', a 200' and 50' pass as required or any combination there of.

Aerobatics? Once again you are demonstrating your ignorance.....should you be brave enough to reply, define an aerobatic manoeuvre.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

What was the reason for the PSAL?

1st landing of the day on a beach that has had the tide go over it requires a PSAL.....otherwise he would have been deemed to have been negligent for landing on a surface that may have had tide induced ruts or timber deposited.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Clearly you have forgotten the requirement to do a PSAL when doing an outfield landing.....such as one where the tide has gone over the beach since you were last there....you will find that then you may descend below 500' within 3 nautical miles of the landing area... then we are taught to do a 500', a 200' and 50' pass as required or any combination there of.Aerobatics? Once again you are demonstrating your ignorance.....should you be brave enough to reply, define an aerobatic manoeuvre.

Care to quote the regulation that lets you fly at 50 ft 3nm from the landing area?

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

Low Flyer 1770I think he maybe referring to the negative g pushovers in you promo / YouTube videos that have been posted

 

I could be wrong but that's what I'm guessing

A 0 or negative g pushover is not an aerobatic or even utility manoeuvre.....more to the point it had nothing to do with this engine failure......this engine was almost new D2J straight from Lycoming factory 500 hrs previously.

I am utterly disgusted with many of the "members" Ill informed and condemnatory comments from "pilots" who have insufficient knowledge and clearly do not know what they are talking about.

 

I will continue to defend Woody as needs be.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

Care to quote the regulation that lets you fly at 50 ft 3nm from the landing area?

You are one of those! You have deliberately misconstrued my words. The regulations state that for the purpose of landing or inspection you may descend below 500 feet within 3 miles of an ALA or landing area.

 

Not immediately at 3 nautical miles.

 

 

[alf jessup]

A 0 or negative g pushover is not an aerobatic or even utility manoeuvre.....more to the point it had nothing to do with this engine failure......this engine was almost new D2J straight from Lycoming factory 500 hrs previously.I am utterly disgusted with many of the "members" Ill informed and condemnatory comments from "pilots" who have insufficient knowledge and clearly do not know what they are talking about.

 

I will continue to defend Woody as needs be.

I'm not quoting this accident with my comment

 

I was merely stating that BLA 82 was most likely referring to a promo / YouTube video which showed Pax with seat belts off during a non aerobatic manoeuvre

 

Pretty good practice BTW to allow paying passengers to undo their seat belts while you do a non aerobatic pushover in to negative g

 

You keep defending Woody it's fine you obviously get Buzz out of your Toy Story operation

 

 

[turboplanner]

1st landing of the day on a beach that has had the tide go over it requires a PSAL.....otherwise he would have been deemed to have been negligent for landing on a surface that may have had tide induced ruts or timber deposited.

I'm not at home to check my books, so I'll take your word for that. That being so, I agree with the pilot, would have turned away from the water and taken pot luck with any hard surface available in the time.

 

 

[Low Flyer 1770]

Doesn't really mean much in terms of true poor operating. When a bad event happens CASA will always find something wrong - no matter how insignificant. Pulling an AOC is how CASA shows the world they in control of a situation. Even if what they cite is not an issue.CASA has been known to pull an AOC for the heinous crime of operating without a chief pilot which actually was:

 

A local helo charter company chief pilot went on holidays and company couldn't or didn't get a replacement chief pilot ( but the original was still in town and was still contactable and said he would come in and do anything required) BUT the company didn't have a replacement on the books and they had paid the chief pilot holiday pay so as far as CASA was concerned he was not available. Therefore the company operated for two weeks without a chief pilot - AOC pulled.

Nice to find someone on here who is not so quick to condemn.....thanks for that......actually the CP only has to be available and in contact, I have had discussion with casa on that point.

 

And yes you are right CASA are fast to condemn even when they have no authority to investigate....and they back off fast if you are given the time to refute their allegations. Investigation is ATSBs role who refuse to divulge anything to CASA.....wonder why!