VENTURA 4 SEAT

[Icarus]

Check this out.

 

https://www.aerokits.net.au/VENTURA2016.pdf

 

and on youtube

 

 

can be used as LSA all the way to GA EAB at 800kg.

 

Definitely on my build one ,list

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

None ordered for Australia yet and am told none available anyway until late this year

 

Will be a bit heavy to try to get it in RAAA with usable load but as SAAA no problems

 

 

[Icarus]

Will be a bit heavy to try to get it in RAAA with usable load but as SAAA no problems

???

 

340kg empty with 100hp Rotax.

 

That leaves 260kg useful

 

Say 180kg for pilot and Pax

 

leaves 80kg for fuel and luggage

 

Rotax uses about 15 LPh??

 

5 Hours fuel is about 80L = 57kg

 

so 180kg + 57kg = 237kg leaving 23kg for luggage. That a reasonable amount of junk in the trunk. You may even be able to sleep in the thing!!

 

Of course the assumption is that it can be built at that weight and the Pilot and pax may weigh more.

 

I'm thinking a Turbo 912 at 140hp. about 370kg empty weight with BRS leaving 430 kg useful load

 

320kg for the four of us leaves 110 for fuel and luggage. Should move along ok at 10000 ft too!

 

PS. Great ground plane for all the antennas too!

 

PSS 32 knot stall full flaps 500kg

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Check this out.https://www.aerokits.net.au/VENTURA2016.pdf

and on youtube

 

I like the use of camloks for the cowls.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I believe 340 kg is being very hopefull more likely 360 to 370 when you have the extra tanks. I am 105 kg and most people I know are 80 to 110 kg and fuel figures cant really be fudged anyway

 

But use some figures..Most Savannahs are at least 300 to 320 kg at best..the label and what they state on the specs are not right for here with decent avionics and paint. The lightest XL that I know of has been 295 kg but that is the exception not the rule. The wingspan for the Ventura is about the same but internally it must be built a lot heavier to be speced at 800 kg also it is a 4 place so bigger internally the aircraft is volumetrically bigger. Maybe 340 bare metal and minimal avionics and 2 tanks. Just adding the extra tanks will add around 12 kg so for RAAA its a bit heavy for use..800 kg no issue. This is where RAA should be heading to allow us to build stronger aircraft

 

 

[Icarus]

I believe 340 kg is being very hopefull more likely 360 to 370 when you have the extra tanks. I am 105 kg and most people I know are 80 to 110 kg and fuel figures cant really be fudged anywayBut use some figures..Most Savannahs are at least 300 to 320 kg at best..the label and what they state on the specs are not right for here with decent avionics and paint. The lightest XL that I know of has been 295 kg but that is the exception not the rule. The wingspan for the Ventura is about the same but internally it must be built a lot heavier to be speced at 800 kg also it is a 4 place so bigger internally the aircraft is volumetrically bigger. Maybe 340 bare metal and minimal avionics and 2 tanks. Just adding the extra tanks will add around 12 kg so for RAAA its a bit heavy for use..800 kg no issue. This is where RAA should be heading to allow us to build stronger aircraft

Yes 340kg is probably not realistic. lets say 360 kg.

 

For you and say a 95kg pax that's 200 kg leaving 40kg for fuel which is only about 55 L

 

That's about 3.5 hours fuel but no luggage. so leave out the bigger tanks and save weight .

 

Standard tanks hold 78l That's about 5 hours at 15Lph or 4.3 hours at 18Lph aprox

 

Will be interesting to see what builders weights are in the real world

 

 

[Icarus]

OOps

 

I was using 80hp fuel flow figures

 

Should be 20Lph at 75% for 912uls

 

What weights are most raa 2 seat aircraft empty?

 

I believe Jab 230 is around 340- 350 with around 400 being the upper and 320 about lowest

 

They all seem to be very limited in range with 2 people aboard depending on the weight of occupents

 

I generally use 90kg per person as this would probably be an average between 80kg and 100kg people

 

of course 2 110kg people in raa may not allow much fuel at all.

 

360 kg seems to be about max weight before range becomes seriously compromised with 2 people[ depending on occupant weight]

 

360kg empty+

 

4 hours fuel at 20Lph = 80L = 57kg

 

Leaves 183 kg for people and luggage. Ok For me and my Mrs but would only be able to bring a small bag.

 

So Building one of these That would be my absolute max target weight. Can use in GA Then go To RAA if Required

 

However if using GA at 800kg the 100hp would not be enough? would need at least 120 hp I reckon, which means more weight under the cowl.

 

 

[rmorton]

[GALLERY=media, 3815]IMG_0014 by rmorton posted Oct 30, 2016 at 1:28 PM[/GALLERY][GALLERY=media, 3814]IMG_0033 by rmorton posted Oct 30, 2016 at 11:11 AM[/GALLERY]

 

It's a great little plane, we saw several in the summer flying with the new ICP twin cylinder engine sadly neither are yet available and until the French change the rules it is unlikely that it will be worth building as a ULM. I really wish that Europe would create an LSA/experimental catagory!

 

 

[Icarus]

[GALLERY=media, 3815]IMG_0014 by rmorton posted Oct 30, 2016 at 1:28 PM[/GALLERY][GALLERY=media, 3814]IMG_0033 by rmorton posted Oct 30, 2016 at 11:11 AM[/GALLERY]It's a great little plane, we saw several in the summer flying with the new ICP twin cylinder engine sadly neither are yet available and until the French change the rules it is unlikely that it will be worth building as a ULM. I really wish that Europe would create an LSA/experimental catagory!

Gday .

 

Does France not have a 600 kg MTOW category?

 

Is it 450kg MTOW at the moment? ULM?

 

What about a General Aviation experimental category?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The M09 hasnt been reporyed much..have you seen many around yet...been looking for videos on it but really nothing around. What have you heard especially with the 130hp

 

 

[Marty_d]

That's a lovely looking plane. Interesting how the the LE's protrude past the windshield at the wing roots, almost a cross between the 701 (801 being a 4 seater I guess) and Sav.

 

 

[Downunder]

Savannah on steroids.....lol.

 

 

[rmorton]

Gday .Does France not have a 600 kg MTOW category?

Is it 450kg MTOW at the moment? ULM?

 

What about a General Aviation experimental category?

I am no expert but at the moment we only have ULM at 472.5kg (if fitted with a parachute) Everything above that is certified. Crazy as the 600kg is much more practical and realisable figure.

 

 

[rmorton]

The M09 hasnt been reporyed much..have you seen many around yet...been looking for videos on it but really nothing around. What have you heard especially with the 130hp

At the flying day in the summer ICP were flying several of their own fleet with them and they seemed to run really well. I did ask if I could buy one it was clear it wouldn't be any time soon :(

 

 

[Captaincoop]

I want one

 

 

[Hargraves]

Great looking bird for sure. But taxis belong in GA not recreational flying. The insurance issues for registration is the differance and the reason raa flying is affordable.

 

 

[SDQDI]

I see no reason why I can't fly recreationally with my kids!

 

Yes I think at this stage that is best done in GA BUT don't right off 4 seats as non recreational.

 

In a perfect world commercial ops and private ops would be the only 'divisions' in aviation with private operating under RAA style rules and commercial regulated a bit more.

 

 

[Hargraves]

Aka Newzealand where the kiwis as usual are applying common sense and leading the way, just like they did at our anniversary airshow at Richmond with our (old redundant skyhawks) and absolutley stole the show, with the possible exception of the Russian aerobatic world champions flying display. .Aircraft size/weight creep will kill RAA buy making it more expensive, unaffordable and regulated and are the opposite reasons we fly, under this system

 

 

[Icarus]

But taxis belong in GA not recreational flying.

Guess CASA should call their "Recreational" Pilots Licence "Taxi" Pilots licence.

 

The insurance issues for registration is the differance and the reason raa flying is affordable.

Do you need insurance to register GA experimental?

Do you not register GA once for a couple hundred bucks and register every year for RAA?

 

Aircraft size/weight creep will kill RAA buy making it more expensive, unaffordable and regulated and are the opposite reasons we fly, under this system

I disagree

700kg would allow a more useable aircraft eg

 

350-370kg empty

 

200kg pilot and pax

 

100kg fuel

 

30-50kg baggage

 

who would not like that?

 

Keep everything else the same , ie medicals,maintenance , 2 people etc

 

Those who want to fly drifters etc on the cheap stil can.

 

Those who want to fly larger more expensive AC still can too under RAA and use the whole AC gross weight

 

eg Jabiru 230 kitfox ss7 etc

 

If anything RAA would grow as people could see they can use a very practical aircraft under RAA instead of always having to stop at 600kg in an aircraft designed for 700kg!!

 

 

[Icarus]

CASA could also get some of those EAB off their register and let RAA deal with them:wink:

 

also fitting a BRS would be more practical in 700kg RAA as currently 15-20kg for a chute is a big chunk out of useful load at 600kg

 

 

[Hargraves]

BRS weight is a good point, more so as most of the guys i know fly less than 600 mtow catagory mainly i,m sure because their wallets arn,t as heavy and its affordable.

 

 

[rmorton]

The M09 hasnt been reporyed much..have you seen many around yet...been looking for videos on it but really nothing around. What have you heard especially with the 130hp

The factory are running them in everything they have to build up hours. It certainly seems to be a serious contender but no idea when it will be available.

 

 

[g2omer]

Is this Savannah VENTURA have adjustable seats (front row) thank you .

 

Francois