Swan river incident

[Bats]

Lots of very informative posts here - at least there doesn't seem to be the same attachment to downwind turn theory as some over at the wrinkled plum have. I suspect that a majority of pilots pay close attention to an incident like this, not because they are ghouls or want to outdo the ATSB, but because learning to fly is a never ending process and even if a particular post later proves incorrect in relation to the incident at hand, the discussion can highlight gaps in your own knowledge or root out misconceptions that lurk in the aviation undergrowth.

 

 

[cgsimpson]

Sad story……there is a great version of VH-CQA still flyable on FSX.

 

 

[SSCBD]

The ground temperature on the day was around 41 degrees, so there's a density altitude issue involved as well.

Please note it was also running empty of pax - makes big difference.

 

 

[winsor68]

Just curious- Was the Cessna operating as part of the airshow or as a separate joy flight op. If separate would both aircraft have been using the airshow discrete frequency citybase 127.9 ? Are these frequencies monitored/recorded officially or by enthusiasts?Maybe transmission recordings will help the investigation.

I don't think there was a near miss.

 

 

[storchy neil]

read post 100 neil

 

 

[bull]

Craig Thomsen shared Great Eastern Fly-In Evans Head - Australia's Friendliest Flying Event's photo to the group: Bush Flyers Down Under.

 

· 1 hr ·

 

Funeral Details

 

 

Great Eastern Fly-In Evans Head - Australia's Friendliest Flying Event

 

· 9 hrs ·

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

PETER ANTHONY LYNCH SERVICE DETAILS

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

FROM SEBASTIAN LYNCH.....

 

A funeral service for my D...ad, Peter Anthony Lynch will be held at St. Ignatius Loyola Church, 30 Kensington Tce, Brisbane 4066, at 1pm on Friday the 10th of February 2017.

 

An informal gathering celebrating his life will follow.

 

Please contact our family for details.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I was at the airshow and witnessed the accident first hand - the point of impact was 400m from where I was sitting. This was the worst 5 seconds I've ever experienced, as I saw the turn tighten with what appeared to be the application of left rudder, then the airspeed dropped off and then over it went. I knew from the start of that turn, as soon as the wing went over there was nothing that could be done.

Flash:

Thanks for that input. I was watching some of the video footage and thought that he had kicked the tail around in an effort to tighten the turn. I mentioned that to a friend and got right royally told that that was NOT the case!

 

 

[facthunter]

A thorough study of the vids will determine whether that happened or not. Nev

 

 

[Nightmare]

The investigation is still pending. If anyone witnessed or videoed the accident, the ATSB are keen to talk with you. look at this page: Investigation: AO-2017-013 - Collision with water involving Grumman American Aviation Corp G-73, registered VH-CQA, 10 km WSW of Perth Airport, Western Australia on 26 January 2017

 

 

[Downunder]

What caused the Swan River seaplane crash on Australia Day

 

What caused the Swan River plane crash

 

 

[facthunter]

Nothing surprising except the fourth paragraph from the end, which is surprising in that someone would represent it like that (if they did) from a "show" like ATSB. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

Yes that paragraph is complete rubbish. With a 20kmh tailwind, groundspeed is increased but so long as airspeed is within the limits tailwind has no effect. There will be an effect though if turning 180 deg from upwind to down wind when the upwind airspeed is not far above stall. Add the heat to the 20kmh difference plus the reduced airspeed over the inboard wing, low altitude and without a lot of power to get that airspeed up, its all over rover.

 

 

[Camel]

Not knowing too much about the weather that day but at 39degrees and SW 20 km wind, I would expect gusting and swirling of wind especially over a river near tall buildings so mechanical turbulence and thermal.

 

I would not rule out the part the weather played in this accident. In the ATSB preliminary report it shows the circuit pattern and look to stay clear of CBD on previous circuits.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I would expect a bit of wind shear on a day like that

 

 

[Birdseye]

Not knowing too much about the weather that day but at 39degrees and SW 20 km wind, I would expect gusting and swirling of wind especially over a river near tall buildings so mechanical turbulence and thermal. I would not rule out the part the weather played in this accident. In the ATSB preliminary report it shows the circuit pattern and look to stay clear of CBD on previous circuits.

Fairly consistent SW sea breeze, the high buildings of the CBD are situated downwind.

 

 

[Bats]

From the horses mouth, not the other end that the journos seem to use; Investigation: AO-2017-013 - Collision with water involving Grumman American Aviation Corp G-73, registered VH-CQA, 10 km WSW of Perth Airport, Western Australia on 26 January 2017

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I think you'll find that most journos these days just copy and paste unless its the Murdoch media and they tend to have a political narrative they need to carry and pick and chose their facts to suit.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think you'll find that most journos these days just copy and paste unless its the Murdoch media and they tend to have a political narrative they need to carry and pick and chose their facts to suit.

Surprisingly, they obtain most of the story from witnesses on the scene at an event, including any industry expert, who usually professes to have some detailed or "inside" knowledge. Some of these provide the make and model (in their opinion) of the aircraft; others make it simple, so the audience will understand and provde a form of pidgin, which may include "it's a Cessna".

The story goes to the Editor, who, contrary to popular belief here, will go off like a packet of crackers if he/she thinks the journalist has made anything up, so the journalist usually obtains the source of the witness, just doesn't print it.

 

From there it may go to legal, ands have all the guts taken out of it.

 

Then if its on deadline it may turn out to be something like a piece of swiss cheese.

 

These people work in minutes rather than hours.

 

 

[Bats]

I think you'll find that most journos these days just copy and paste unless its the Murdoch media and they tend to have a political narrative they need to carry and pick and chose their facts to suit.

Murdoch's minions aren't alone in having a political barrow to push and unfortunately even if a writer has a good grasp on the subject, the piece still has to pass by the editor and/or sub-editor who will mangle it to suit the prevailing narrative and space available, and then my particular beef, will slap a catchy headline on top that may or will often not reflect the general sense of the content, but will serve as clickbait. This in the full knowledge that a large number of readers will read nothing more than the expanded headline and treat that "knowledge" as the final word on the subject. I'm tempted to blame twitter for the phenomenon, but I suspect they just exploited an existing mindset.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

mobile phones have made reporting airshow accidents a snap these days, plenty of willing sellers.

 

i think in this case they just copy and paste from the ATSB preliminary report to generate a few clicks

 

 

[Camel]

Fairly consistent SW sea breeze, the high buildings of the CBD are situated downwind.

Not a consistent sea breeze when it goes over land at 40 degrees.

 

 

[dsam]

From the horses mouth, not the other end that the journos seem to use; Investigation: AO-2017-013 - Collision with water involving Grumman American Aviation Corp G-73, registered VH-CQA, 10 km WSW of Perth Airport, Western Australia on 26 January 2017

Interesting to observe (from the two photos in this preliminary ATSB report) there isn't a hint of rudder being used, but heaps of aileron! At least the elevator appears neutral.

A very sad and tragic outcome for all concerned.

 

 

[dsam]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/australia-day-swan-river-fatal-plane-crash-atsb-final-report/11718076

 

 

[Thruster88]

The report

 

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2017/aair/ao-2017-013/

 

 

[facthunter]

Keen, but probably never properly consolidated on the type.. Some emphasise energy management  in flying training. If you want more lift from the wing expect more drag as well. . That applies to a wing (if aileron is used) or the whole plane if entering/performing a turn.  (and there's also all sorts of wind effects possible when wind comes over land near water). All sad. Nev