New ASIC requirements

[mnewbery]

Also before anyone nitpicks, actually read and understand the STATE laws around search and seizure before talking about being safe from police on an airport. Other federal laws also apply even to the state police without a written exemption that names the officer personally.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

The police are welcome at our aerodrome. They patrol at various times and do drive on taxiways at times in front of the hangars like the aircraft owners. They patrol after hours also and speak to people. We are happy for them to be familiar with the airport and to keep an eye on the place. I'm sure if there was dubious activity the would do something. State police have jurisdiction anywhere in the state in accordance with state law except on commonwealths property.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Ironically the blend for Opal is very similar to 100LL without the TEL ...

That got my attention.

We're still waiting for a lead-free alternative to AvGas. I presume Opal has strict quality control...

 

 

[mnewbery]

Nope Opal does not because it doesn't need to meet that standard. It is still also 91 octane and goes through pipes that have had other product in them.

 

 

[mnewbery]

The police are welcome at our aerodrome. (...) State police have jurisdiction anywhere in the state in accordance with state law except on commonwealths property.

... In accordance with state and federal law. So we agree on that it is a federal offence for a state police officer to enter the sterile area of a certified aerodrome with a service weapon (a gun) unless authorised under aviation transport safety regulation act 2005. The act is quite clear. There is no rule that says the local police must be able to recite state or federal laws.

What happens at uncertified noname grass airstrip is up to the land owners (could be a public place too) and plod. Personally I want local plod to come and have a cup of tea, hang out, go for a fly and look down on the neighbours wicked hydro skunk setup. Safely.

 

Why should I have all the fun?

 

 

[MikeWebb]

It looks like the ASIC system is going to get even more complex and annoying later this year.Identity security amendments

 

Even more new categories of ASIC, face to face document checks with the ASIC issuer and other changes to the regulations. I can only imagine what that will do to the cost, and I'm struggling to understand why getting and ASIC should be more complex and irritating than getting a passport even.

Yes, the logic defeats me!!!. Last year I received a Pilot's license in the US without this amount of bureaucracy. It seems General Aviation in Australia is being screwed at every turn.

 

I'm certainly not opposed to ensuring all reasonable steps are taken to protect our country but this seems over the top. Who would believe that anybody with evil intensions would not carry the act out because he/she did not have an ASIC? you would simply hire a pilot and overpower him/her. And you already have to attend an interview at a Post Office to obtain a Passport-and that's one of the documents used to verify who you are at the face to face!!!!. why not a one off security check to obtain a license and self reporting?. There has been more people killed by trucks than acts of terrorism in aircraft over the past 12 months.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Mmmm - I don't want to turn this into an argument regarding Police access to airfields and other private properties including your own home, but we need to be cognisant of the fact that Police are 'authorised officers' under numerous Act of Parliament and may access where they have a reasonable belief that an offence has taken place, about to take place, could take place etc.

 

Aditionally there are a number of Acts where search of cars, aircraft and personal bags is permitted -

 

" reasonable belief". There are numerous 'Prima Facie cases' presented to Courts where Police believed an offence was about or had taken place.

 

There is also pages of Case Law rulings on Police access being challenged and most would send you to sleep which I can attest to as a previous Court Prosecutor ..

 

'Mens Rea' whilst not evident in every aircraft owners mind, may in fact see them inadvertently stubble into committing an offence later inadvertently without guilty intent.

 

The Police in the above Forum members Post if questioned on their authority could simply delay departure and call on Federal Police or any other relevant authority. So my advice is respectfully advise them if you feel they may have driven into an area that could be dangerous.

 

Before becoming too defensive or challenging authority on tarmacs or other areas within Commonwealth circumscribe familiarise yourself - or simply don't challenge authority - with the COPAL Act.

 

This Act gives Police access - Note - Section 4 (1) provides that the laws of the State that are in force will apply in relation to each place in that State that is a Commonwealth Place.

 

And to even complicate things Rec Aus pilots will often find themselves on Local Government property at Council owned airports and I can guarantee that Police have access here. State airports and Council airports now come into the mix with the COPAL Act.

 

Note - Reasonable belief is not arbitrary arrest or detention Section 15 of The Crimes Act refers. Read also Article 9 (1).

 

ASIC or not if you have nothing to hide why complicate or challenge authority and if I can be bold enough to give a warning 'Don't'. Simply don't test or try your luck and I suggest don't do what is suggested above.

 

Police are smart enough to know if potential offenders say they have "nothing to hide" it usually translates to " it's hidden already" I just want Forum readers to understand not to accept or take opinion in Forums etc as gospel as it may be inappropriate or even misplaced bravado.

 

Back to the ASIC - it cost me five times the cost of my Drivers Licence and that along with delays in issuing are more of a concern to me.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Happyflyer

 

I agree to have Police driving about my airport is very welcome - its a private airport with numerous owners owning Freehold.

 

State Police do have access to Commonwealth airports and facilities under a number of Acts of Parliament.

 

There are numerous opportunities for State Police under law to gain access and remain within the circumscribe. Affecting an arrest and presenting a brief of evidence to a Court is also permissible.

 

Generally State police will hand offenders over too Federal Police to allow them to return to General Duties.

 

I definitely would not be challenging State Police or for that matter a Council By Laws Officer - what's the point

 

Maybe we will put an extra chop on the BBQ and a Coke in the fridge and encourage them our airport:plane:

 

 

[frank marriott]

So we agree on that it is a federal offence for a state police office

etc etcNo I don't agree - federal authority on federal property located within their state - but not related to flying so I'll leave this arguement alone.

 

 

[old man emu]

Most of the airports/airfields in Australia are lands in private or Local Government hands. The major capital city secondary airports are still Commonwealth property often under the control of a leaseholder.

 

State police have the authority to prosecute people for most day-to-day offences against Commonwealth law. They don't have to hand matters over to the Feds for prosecution.

 

Finally, the average Australian has a very good cooperative relationship with our police. Sure we bitch and moan when we get pinged for the usual type of traffic offence, but we don't want to be as the Yanks are portrayed: uncooperative, offensive and distrustful of police.

 

And now begins the litany of "This bloody copper booked me for .... Why wasn't he out chasing the real crims?"

 

OME

 

 

[NT5224]

I started a thread on ASIC last year. I couldn't and still can't get it. My policy is to steer clear of airfields requiring ASIC. Up in the Top End it works for me.

 

Cheers

 

Alan

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

old man emu

 

Yes your right, there is no requirement for State Police to hand offenders over to Federal Police, but you will find its the norm. This is convenience to facilitate interviews within Federal interview rooms that the Federal guys know their way around and set court dates with numerous Federal offenders listed on a single Court day.

 

The State Police don't need to attend or sit around Federal Courts then. Experienced Federal Court law Magistrates are usually on the bench hearing a number of Federal criminal or civil cases.

 

And to your point, it frees State Police up for General Duties - booking us for speeding

 

My little rave above, was all about "why challenge" or be confrontational.

 

Is it just a need to challenge all authority ? .

 

Mmmmm back on ASIC ..

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

If the 'powers that be' were so worried about national security, why do they allow so many contractors with dual citizenship to work in defence on 'sensitive' projects. I know they do this because on several occasions I have worked with folks who have left defence and returned to their home countries.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

I was told if the security card prohibited those with prior criminal convictions from holding one, then a lot of baggage handlers and refuellers would be out of a job.

 

Its profiling for unsuitable candidates and anti terrorism initiatives, which we all should appreciate.

 

However, the cost and the delays are unacceptable.

 

 

[facthunter]

A certain Airline was informed by the Federal police years ago, the baggage handlers in a particular port could easily be appropriately named the "Long Bay Old Boys Club". Koala stamp for guessing which port. Lot's of stuff was going off from pax luggage and drugs in boogie boards etc. Nev

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Here's an example of the police making a nuisance of themselves airside on an aerodrome. The guy probably told them they didn't have jurisdiction but it doesn't seem to have worked.

 

Police swoop on light plane, arrest pilot over drug supply

 

 

[mnewbery]

Post does not add value so removed - Mod

 

 

[old man emu]

Police swoop on light plane, arrest pilot over drug supply

Asset seizure. Keep an eye out for a cheap plane at the police auctions.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Asset seizure. Keep an eye out for a cheap plane at the police auctions.

I have been watching for that ever since this event happened. Lol

 

 

[Nobody]

I hope that those of you who don't think that an ASIC is the answer have email your elected representatives as wall as posting on here:

 

Senators and Members – Parliament of Australia

 

If we dont complain they will take the silence as contentment with the changes.

 

 

[facthunter]

Squeeky wheels get the most oil. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The ASIC is a bit OTT and unnecessarily targets people probably least likely to commit terrorism. I can understand the requirements at the large international airports as large domestic and international flights are usually the aviation targets (Trends in Aviation Terrorism). Somehow, I can't see real terrorists from organised cells wanting to faff about learning to fly when there are far simpler means of circumventing large airport security and doing some seriously spectacular damage. Even if they did want to use a plane, they would probably learn enough to almost go solo, shoot the instructor and comandeer the a/c, I believe all without the need for an ASIC or AVID.

 

I also don't see the terrorist going for regional airports. Somehow, blowing up a SAAB 340 isn't going to be the headline grabber worldwide that blowing up an A380 is. OK, the lone wolf, or that madman at Mt Isa are probably an issue, but I'd wager anyone that security is easily circumvented or overcome, that the presence or not of an ASIC Card isn't really going to help.

 

What I also know is that it is costing the GA economy export dollars (well, sales, but to foreign tourists, so it can count as export dollars). I have lost count on my fave UK forum how may times PPLs have asked about flying in Aus, When they find out the malarkee they have to go through (and although an ASIC isn't required, the regs seem to point at least requiring an AVID... and then somewhere else about not being allowed to fly unless one has submitted an application for either?!?!). Of course, there is confusion of whether, for a PPL, a temp Certificate of Validation or a conversion to an Aus PPL is required; the regs (or at least the CASA website) says a foreign PPL must convert to an Aussie PPL and Temp CoVs are for commercial pilots; but it seems a couple of EASA PPLs I know (well, they were JAA PPLs at the time) were able to get to Temp CoV... The thing is, for either, its an unnecessary bureaucratic burden and many people either satisfy themselves with an hour bimble with an instructor or don't bother at all.

 

While it won't put much of a dent in the balance of trade's deficit, the number of those on the forums alone that are willing to jump through reasonable hoops numbers around 10 in the last 3 months; and from what trips we were discussing, there was probably an average of 10 - 15 hours flying they wanted to do.. Not much, but if GA in Aus is anything like GA in the UK (i.e. declining), the cash should be a welcome shot in the arm, especially given there willbe people not on those forums as well as the rest of Europe, USA, etc. . The local procedures could be shown to a competent pilot during a reasonable check flight. Most of those who are travelling to both NZ and Aus opt to do their flying in NZ.

 

The UK plausibly has a higher terrorist threat than Aus; Like Aus, there are agencies that deal with it. Unlike Aus, despite some curbs on civil liberties (Terrorist Act or some such, that was actually used to freeze Icelandic banks money in the UK during the GFC),I guess the UK take a risk-based approach and don't see the risk of using light GA for terrorism as significantly high (except for the 2012 Olympics)

 

 

[spacesailor]

Well

 

If the the pollies get their way ( Pauline one nation party), we may all get the ASIC card, a bit modified I expect.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I can just see it... "Sir (or Madam, to be PC), unfortunately your application for an ASIC has been rejected. You have just been stripped of your nationality. I believe Nauru has exemplary accommodation suitable for you. Thank you and have a good day"...

 

 

[ian00798]

WellIf the the pollies get their way ( Pauline one nation party), we may all get the ASIC card, a bit modified I expect.

spacesailor

Yeah but her ASIC equivalent wouldn't apply to everyone, it would be "targeted".....