ASIC frustration

[zodiac3813]

Hi Everyone,

 

Is anyone else in this position? I mailed off my ASIC (re-issue) application mid December, knowing that I'd need it to fly in to Avalon Airshow at the end of February. Sure enough, RA-Aus debited the fee straight away... and nothing. That's been nearly 2 months, and apparently the delay is with the security checking organisation, whoever they are... how ridiculous, it adds insult to injury when the justification for having to fork out for one is marginal to say the least. Now we may not be able to attend Avalon thanks to their bungling. Not impressed!

 

Jim in Tassie.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

As mentioned on previous threads, avoid going through RAAus or CASA, use a third party, I've used securityid.com.au for my last three renewals plus the initial of course, all done online & you get your ASIC within 10 days from applying. Obviously a bit late for you now but think about it for your next renewal.

 

 

[Downunder]

Yes, I found securityid very fast, easy and efficient.

 

From their site:

 

How long does it take?

 

Average time to obtain clearance is 7 days. This is the average - some may be quicker but some also take a bit longer.

 

 

[408059]

Jim

 

I can emphasize with your plight. I tend to renew my ASIC every 2 years at the same time my membership is due in mid December. I have found that if the RAA officer who processes ASICs is on leave, nothing happens until her return. Then you have the January shutdown by the outsourced security service provider where nothing happens until late in the month. To add insult to injury the renewed ASIC, eventually received by me in late January/early February, is backdated to December when I made the submission. This effectively robs me of 1-2 months of coverage. So far I've not been inconvenienced because the Christmas period is family time for me with little flying other than locally. The suggestions made above seem a good idea though.

 

Steve

 

 

[440032]

Looking at this another way Zodiac, so you don't get your ASIC in time, so what. Won't you then be just like every single other person wandering all over Avalon airside secure area with no ASIC? I assume Avalon gets declared a Special Event Zone to allow 343,276 or so other non ASIC holders to freely wander the public areas classified as airside. I also assume you plan to fly into Avalon to display (park) your aircraft, not Avalon East. Unless they want your ASIC card number in advance, just go. If you get bailed up, just declare yourself to be a visitor and demand a VIC (visitor ID card) and an armed escort as you go about your lawful business. But yes, of course it's disappointing to not get a card in a timely manner, you're trying to do the proper thing. Good luck either way, enjoy the event.

 

 

[Peter Anson]

I had a grumble to an RAA board member about my last delayed ASIC and was told that I could have used the reply letter that they sent as a temporary ASIC. It had occurred to me to try that but since it was nothing more than a receipt for my application I find it hard to believe that it would stand any scrutiny.

 

Question for Bennyboy. When applying through RAA, there is a final delay of a week to 10 days because they won't send you the new card until you return the old one. How does this part of it work when you make the on-line application?

 

Peter

 

 

[jetjr]

Apparantly RAA only delay the process a day or two, rest is up to provider

 

None will provide new card without the old one i dont think

 

The whole thing is a rort, why would they make it efficient?

 

 

[mnewbery]

Comment below applies when going through CASA ASIC team at Merimbula.

 

When applying for an ASIC renewal the applicant can submit the paperwork whenever they want and ask to have it sent to them valid for a particular month. So if you aren't flying over winter or over Christmas you can ask to have your card sent about when you need it. It is still up to the applicant to ensure the photo submitted is a recent one.

 

I got mine this way a few times and it saved me quite a bit of money by not paying for something I wasn't using. Also I've only ever had to send the old ASIC back AFTER I got my replacement but in practice it's been expired anyways so I sent the old one with the application. The new ASIC comes with a reply paid envelope for this purpose.

 

I have never gone through RAA although that choice as open to me.

 

 

[mnewbery]

For those posters who would like to jump up and down on the spot over how I am supposed to send an expired ASIC back as soon as it expires, save it or PM me.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Question for Bennyboy. When applying through RAA, there is a final delay of a week to 10 days because they won't send you the new card until you return the old one. How does this part of it work when you make the on-line application?

Security ID will send you your new ASIC, in the post pack they include a self addressed envelope for you to return the old card, as I've said it doesn't get any easier than that, I still can't believe how difficult some agencies make this relatively simple process.

 

 

[Kununurra]

What did RAA say when you phoned them to check on the delay?

 

I had a similar problem when I did my first renewal as I had not sent in the old card.

 

When I phoned they advised me to keep the letter that they had sent as it was valid and to send my old card back ASAP.

 

It is my understanding that you no longer need to send the old card with your renewal unless it has expired, you now do that after you receive your new card.

 

If the card has expired it is no good to anyone as it has an expiry date that is not valid and we know how often they get checked

 

 

[zodiac3813]

As mentioned on previous threads, avoid going through RAAus or CASA, use a third party, I've used securityid.com.au for my last three renewals plus the initial of course, all done online & you get your ASIC within 10 days from applying. Obviously a bit late for you now but think about it for your next renewal.

Thanks for that info, I'll keep it in mind for next time!

 

 

[zodiac3813]

What did RAA say when you phoned them to check on the delay?I had a similar problem when I did my first renewal as I had not sent in the old card.

When I phoned they advised me to keep the letter that they had sent as it was valid and to send my old card back ASAP.

 

It is my understanding that you no longer need to send the old card with your renewal unless it has expired, you now do that after you receive your new card.

 

If the card has expired it is no good to anyone as it has an expiry date that is not valid and we know how often they get checked

RAA said it's out of their hands, AusCheck are holding things up. Of course the fee was debited immediately on receiving the application... 2 months ago!

 

 

[zodiac3813]

Yes, I found securityid very fast, easy and efficient.From their site:

How long does it take?

 

Average time to obtain clearance is 7 days. This is the average - some may be quicker but some also take a bit longer.

2 months so far...

 

 

[jabpilot]

A well known board member told me that he knows of no RA-Aus member ever been taken to task for not having an ASIC at a security controlled airport. I personally fly into and out of security controlled airports, on average, twice a week. Have done for over 15 years. The only time I have been challenged was by a 'Little Hitler' at Toowoomba who wanted to have a go at me for riding my folding push bike down the taxiway. He wasn't interested in whether I had an ASIC or not. In fact, I have not had an ASIC since 2009.

 

Yes, it's a rort. Of course it is. One that will stay with us as long as there are those who continue to support it by shelling out their hard earned bucks for it to make it worthwhile for the government to persevere with it.

 

I have been itching to rally members to attend 'en masse' at the court house in support of one of our members who eventually gets pinged for this form of non-compliance. A few thousand irate aviators appearing on the court house doorstep might bring the issue to a deserved, long overdue conclusion. I'm still waiting...

 

 

[frank marriott]

Unfortunately not a defence to the offence - not agreeing with law is not a lawful reason to commit an offence.

 

I don't agree with the ASIC rules but I still comply to be lawful.

 

 

[zodiac3813]

Ah well, it still has 2 weeks to arrive. Hope springs eternal... otherwise I'll be flying in with my RAA receipt and old ASIC card, and if they ever check and want to prosecute (never been checked in 14 years of flying into Avalon), I'll gladly go to court and testify that my $220 was debited immediately and 2 and a half months later I was still waiting for the card. And I'm obviously not a terrorist. Bring it on, I'm totally sick of this!

 

 

[SDQDI]

It isn't worth the risk Zodiak, for the sake of a phone call to organise an escort you will sleep a lot better.

 

 

[bobcharl]

Hi Jabpilot,

 

Whilst I do hold an ASIC, (unhappily), let me know when the first rally is on and I will make every effort to be there.

 

Bob

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Unfortunately not a defence to the offence - not agreeing with law is not a lawful reason to commit an offence.I don't agree with the ASIC rules but I still comply to be lawful.

I fully support the need for & support the ASIC type security for a large airports, but the imposition of this, on private pilots flying in/out of piddling little airfields (to say nothing of the cost to the taxpayer in security infrastructure upgrades) around the country is a level of insanity I cannot support.

 

I understand your position, in wishing to stay within the law and I do not suggest you do otherwise, BUT

 

Continuing to pay your ASIC just:

 

· Funds the bureaucrats that administer the system. They don't want ASIC to stop.

 

· Is a "raison detra" for the legion of ineffectual committees/representatives supposedly trying to change the legislation. They are happy in their Quixotic efforts.

 

· Signals our acquiescence and by default, support for this truly nonsensical legislation.

 

It is risky for a politician to challenge existing law. Even the suggestion makes them "duck for cover". There may be votes to loose or questions in the media. Who knows what Pandora's Box may be opened. I might lose my seat. Best to do nothing.

 

The only way to get something done about the ASIC impact on us, the sport/private pilot, is to create a little discomfort for the politicians. Just enough so they will "risk" doing something constructive for their electorate (Us).

 

How about a bit of unified action - could start by all pilots boycotting major airshows - Avalon?

 

If we all just continue to renew our ASIC and have a private little grumble at the stupidity & cost of it - well then, expect to be mined for cash, with little if any benefit to show for it.

 

ASIC is unlikely to change in my lifetime. How many years has it been now?

 

Rant over

 

 

[Geoff_H]

I needed an ASIC Sea Port Clearance, you can use your aircraft one as the ID and security check provided that the Port expiry date will coincide with the aircraft ASIC. Hence no security or identy cost. The Port one offered was only around$60 cheaper! So how much does it cost to make an ASIC card? We are told that they are just covering costs...Does that mean that they are so inept at making the final document or are they just making a profit that they are not telling us about. CASA should justify their costs and expenses, a little transp

 

 

[zodiac3813]

The plot thickens. After a phone call to AusCheck, it turns out that they cleared my application on the 11th of January. Another phone call to RAA, and apparently their ASIC cards are issued from Melbourne Airport, and therein lies the holdup. I got an undertaking from RAA to write a letter stating that my application is paid for and fully approved, as is the issue of the card. Of course it may well turn up in the next fortnight, but if not... that's my fallback.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Why does it take 6 weeks to get an Aus Check with your application when security id can get theirs done in a matter of days? Then another month to get a card printed by government outfit, sounds like a complete cluster #### to me.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I fully support the need for & support the ASIC type security for a large airports, but the imposition of this, on private pilots flying in/out of piddling little airfields (to say nothing of the cost to the taxpayer in security infrastructure upgrades) around the country is a level of insanity I cannot support.I understand your position, in wishing to stay within the law and I do not suggest you do otherwise, BUT

 

Continuing to pay your ASIC just:

 

· Funds the bureaucrats that administer the system. They don't want ASIC to stop.

 

· Is a "raison detra" for the legion of ineffectual committees/representatives supposedly trying to change the legislation. They are happy in their Quixotic efforts.

 

· Signals our acquiescence and by default, support for this truly nonsensical legislation.

 

It is risky for a politician to challenge existing law. Even the suggestion makes them "duck for cover". There may be votes to loose or questions in the media. Who knows what Pandora's Box may be opened. I might lose my seat. Best to do nothing.

 

The only way to get something done about the ASIC impact on us, the sport/private pilot, is to create a little discomfort for the politicians. Just enough so they will "risk" doing something constructive for their electorate (Us).

 

How about a bit of unified action - could start by all pilots boycotting major airshows - Avalon?

 

If we all just continue to renew our ASIC and have a private little grumble at the stupidity & cost of it - well then, expect to be mined for cash, with little if any benefit to show for it.

 

ASIC is unlikely to change in my lifetime. How many years has it been now?

 

Rant over

Far be it from me to incite people to commit a crime, however, civil disobedience is often a way to get rubbish laws changed. Try landing at a major airport without one is flirting with danger; but if you flew - I dunno, say Moree to Coonabarabran (assuming not overflying any military or government installations along the way), would anyone really care if you had either an ASIC or AVID?

 

From what I hear on these forums, not having one doesn't seem to be an impediment to gaining access to an a/c most of the time, so not having one is not going to stop a nutter doing something stoopid under the watchful eyes of airport security.

 

By all means - at the major airports and at major events, but anyone wanting to ambush a flight at Benalla is not going to use a light aircraft to do it.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Like many pilots, when the laws first came in (16 years ago?), I went through the ridiculous charade of background security checks, payment of fees and because everyone was applying at the same time, extended delays in delivery. (Did I have to carry a piece of paper saying I had applied ? WOW! there's a secure situation)

 

Finally obtained my ASIC.

 

In time (5 years?) it expired and a year later the authorities demanded my old card be returned (apparently it was only on loan).

 

The card had lived in my little aircraft and never saw the light over an airfield. Despite multiple landings at RPT airfields around NSW & Southern Qld, no one ever asked for it, no one sighted it .

 

All the little RPT's airfields had unnecessary security upgrades at taxpayers considerable expense - fences with coded gates. Usually the fences can be walked around , the gate codes posted for all to use.

 

Some of the then RPT airfields no longer have regular air services but the designation requiring an ASIC remains.

 

The situation is ridiculous.

 

Australians traditionally deal with this sort of legislation by ignoring it and this is largely what has happened.

 

Unfortunately the fact remains that without an ASIC, at a requiring airfield, you are liable to prosecution.

 

Lets get the law changed.