ASIC frustration

[dsam]

It took me 20+ minutes to fill in the Senate sheet voting below the line. You need all the assistance you can get with that ponderous document.. Most took the easy way out and got what the lottery gave them. Some got in with a very low direct vote tally. Nev

My technique was to print off the senate sheet from the AEC website, review/research the candidates, number my print-out, and use it as a template to copy across in the voting booth later. It saved time in the voting booth. Yes, I care about democracy enough to do that.

Growing up in Canada, we didn't have compulsory voting, and it annoyed me when people complained about their parliamentarians, but hadn't cast a vote.

 

I'm much happier with Australia's compulsory voting. Now that Australia's senate voting legislation has changed, a short-cut has been allowed in which multiple numbers above the line are allowed. I will probably still vote below the line (yes... I'm that obsessive...).

 

At least I've earned the right to grumble about what the parliamentarians have done with my vote.

 

 

[facthunter]

The how to vote cards can help. If a whacko mob likes a particular person I put them near the bottom. I do that on local councils too. If pro development or such put someone first, It can indicate they are pro development also. (just as an example). Nev

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

This long-term Labor voter has lost the faith in recent years and was most impressed with Pauline Hanson and her Jabiru.

 

And I was impressed by Dick Smith praising her population policy.

 

I just wish she didn't have climate-change deniers in her party. Mind you, deniers are only a bit worse than the "lip-service but nothing effective" lot in the Labor and Liberal parties.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Why should we have to choose the good with the bad? I cannot endorse the entire platform of a single political party. Why can't I vote for the good ideas from many groups? Even Hanson now has one policy I reluctantly agree with (the rest are woeful).

 

A well informed populace should be able to vote online on major issues. This would give us better government.

 

Unfortunately our hordes of career politicians and legions of overpaid lobbyists are not likely to let that happen.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hi Jerry,Glad you didn't agree with me completely, whee would be the fun if we all agreed.

 

In post war Australia, with its vast open spaces, poor roads and limited rail infrastructure, flying was seen as the natural & efficient way to get around the country. In short the public supported and even idolised aviation/aviators. Flying is now mainstream, mundane, no romance - A to B cheap & fast .( Oh! were we talking about little planes and amateur pilots - way to dangerous.) Unfortunately that is ancient history and i fear no amount of education is going to change it in our lifetimes. (We all know/speculate at the reasons for this 180 degree change - suffice to say they are multiple). Without significant community support, something more immediate & direct is the only way to get the attention of the pollies. Other single issues groups have stood up/closed the gates/ picketed the factory/chained themselves to the railings/etc/etc & achieved significant even complete change in policy/law - why cant we?

 

In this context I would see our group

 

Strengths as -

 

• An unusually wide range of talented persons from diverse backgrounds - much knowledge and ability to draw on
   
   
  
• The ability to make dramatic displays - massed aircraft movement
   
   
  
• Highly mobile - quickly move from location to location
   
   
  
• Goal oriented - can do attitude
   
   
  
• Logical - planners
   
   
  
• Age - largest segment near or in retirement time to devote to a cause
   
   
  

 

 

Weakness as -

 

• Independent movers & thinkers - hard to get consistent coordinated action
   
   
  
• Middle class conservative - complacent inertia
   
   
  
• Relatively small - numerically insignificant
   
   
  
• Dreamers - lot of talk, little action
   
   
  
• Conformists - a bit to much faith in the authorities/law to act appropriately
   
   
  
• Age - lacking in the mental energy to make a stand
   
   
  
• Thin on the ground - geographically widely dispersed making communication and coordinated action difficult
   
   
  

 

 

You can probably add more & subtract some

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying don't take direct action - what I am saying is prepare for it first so when the media (conventional or social) get active, there are others willing to say they support us and are not at best, ambivalent, at worst, tainted by sensationalistic and over-dramatised risks and are pro-over regulation. How long have we had the ASIC? 10 years or thereabouts? CASA have been embarking on EASA style regs for a few years now. In that time, getting those affected on board as well and then taking action would have been time well spent and at least there would be voices heard (which is apparently not the case now).

 

In EASA land, EASA finally agreed for the DGAC (French CAA) to review EASA GA regulation and make recommendations, of which many are being adopted that will merely return us to the status quo of pre-EASA regs. This happened over a three-pronged attack - 1) all EASA countries' AOPAs being represented through IAOPA and lobbying; s) educating the communities that they were suffering due to then massive reductions in flying activity - everything from customs, security guards, refuellers, maintenance people, etc who are not directly involved in aviation but earned a living from it were being affected and things like unemployment are being affected - this led to them complaining a bit to their local representatives; 3) taking direct action through petitions, general media support, direct mailing, etc.

 

The latter two were manly done in France and their MEPs brought it to the EU legislature's notice and started kicking up a stink in the EU institutions, this time working on the detriment it was having on the economy as a whole. Suddenly, Gordeau resigns and Ky launches a review - led by those who were protesting loudest, to review and overhaul the draconian regulations.

 

Point i am making is it wasn't protest alone; it was a concerted campaign that then fed into the political process though both education and direct action.

 

Others that take direct action usually already have some affinity with at least large swathes of the general electorate, or they have some power over the political institutions (e.g BLF of days gone by and Painters and Dockers Unions, etc).

 

 

[coljones]

Why should we have to choose the good with the bad? I cannot endorse the entire platform of a single political party. Why can't I vote for the good ideas from many groups? Even Hanson now has one policy I reluctantly agree with (the rest are woeful).A well informed populace should be able to vote online on major issues. This would give us better government.

Unfortunately our hordes of career politicians and legions of overpaid lobbyists are not likely to let that happen.

It would be good if one could also pick and choose from among the parties policies. Most parties policies only have, at best, support from less than 25% of the population but are claimed as a "mandate" by the winning party. If they can't win a vote in the Senate it is pretty obvious that the majority don't support it.

 

 

[zodiac3813]

Getting back to topic, after some consideration it occurred to me that I probably don't need to wear the ASIC card whilst at Avalon as a display participant: I taxi to the tie-down area, and from then to the end of the show I'm in a "public viewing area"... when I leave, I do the opposite. My feet do not contact an "airside" area at all. My only two planned stops between Tassie and Avalon are Smithton and Torquay, neither of which require an ASIC.

 

So I'll carry the letter from RAA and if I'm pulled up... I'm happy to make it a test case in the interests of common sense!

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Zodiac - The risk would seem to be exceeding small. No one seem to care

 

 

[scre80]

Getting back to topic, after some consideration it occurred to me that I probably don't need to wear the ASIC card whilst at Avalon as a display participant: I taxi to the tie-down area, and from then to the end of the show I'm in a "public viewing area"... when I leave, I do the opposite. My feet do not contact an "airside" area at all. My only two planned stops between Tassie and Avalon are Smithton and Torquay, neither of which require an ASIC.So I'll carry the letter from RAA and if I'm pulled up... I'm happy to make it a test case in the interests of common sense!

Hi Zodiac, I have to ask, did you get the card in the end?

 

 

[Geoff_H]

The ASIC card is nothing much more than a money making system. I had to get a Port ASIC to work on a plant on Sydney Warfs. As I already had a security clearance from the aviation ASIC I was able to get a Port ASIC with the same expiry date as the aviation one, is no additional security clearance required. I forget the exact numbers but I got a discount of around$20 in $200. So the security clearance is worth$20 to them? I have no idea but it seems that the cost is phone along with most other costs in aviation.

 

 

[Downunder]

When I asked a well travelled person about corruption in third word countries, he said it was nothing like the corruption in Australia.

 

The only difference was that in Australia, it was the govt taking the money or atleast a govt endorsed entity, so threrefore making it legal.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

A work colleague is staying at our place at the moment (it's a long weekend). He has an Aussie PPL (he lived in Aus for a couple of years ago). We were discussing overseas flying and he had stated that since the ASIC/AVID, he had stopped visiting Aus altogether - usually goes to the US (Florida) or Canada now. Although he does intend to go to NZ shortly to fly.

 

Another great score fo pollies/civil servants - inward looking - make a bi of money at the longer term cost to the industry.

 

 

[Bill]

A work colleague is staying at our place at the moment (it's a long weekend). He has an Aussie PPL (he lived in Aus for a couple of years ago). We were discussing overseas flying and he had stated that since the ASIC/AVID, he had stopped visiting Aus altogether - usually goes to the US (Florida) or Canada now. Although he does intend to go to NZ shortly to fly.Another great score fo pollies/civil servants - inward looking - make a bi of money at the longer term cost to the industry.

If you are found airside without an ASIC, who fines / prosecutes you? (CASA, airport operator, police?) Are there any stats / FOI figures to indicate how many have been fined / prosecuted?

 

 

[Yenn]

CASA is not responsible for Asics. That was brought in by a different government department and I would assume that they would be the prosecutors.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

A work colleague is staying at our place at the moment (it's a long weekend). He has an Aussie PPL (he lived in Aus for a couple of years ago). We were discussing overseas flying and he had stated that since the ASIC/AVID, he had stopped visiting Aus altogether - usually goes to the US (Florida) or Canada now. Although he does intend to go to NZ shortly to fly.Another great score fo pollies/civil servants - inward looking - make a bi of money at the longer term cost to the industry.

Prior to ASICs coming in there were several "tag along" tour companies who took foreign pilots on safaris round Oz. They supplied the planes and did all organising. As far as I know they all closed down after the ASIC came in because it took so long to get them it was not viable.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

These guys seem to be still going, but I wonder how business has fared since the ASIC, or whether they are focused on local pilots: Stawell Aviation Services - Outback Flying Tours - Stawell Aviation Services >> Home (I have no affiliation with them whatsoever)..

 

I was wondering - if I fly a foreign registered a/c in Aus on my foreign licence, so I need an ASIC? One of my goals is to fly from London to Aus as per here: http://fundraising.oxfam.org.uk/events/downloads/0000/0629/Cherokee-Challenge-Flight-to-Australia-2013---Overview-230719.pdf (there are other links, but as they are blogging sites, I can't access them from work). Wold like to do it in i a similar plane, although, at a Royal Aeronautical Society event last night, may look at doing it in a permit, VLA or ULA instead. As I can't front up in person for them to verify my mug shot, I won't be able to get an ASIC before I would depart..

 

If I won't need an ASIC/AVID, then doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose?

 

 

[Love to fly]

A well known board member told me that he knows of no RA-Aus member ever been taken to task for not having an ASIC at a security controlled airport. I personally fly into and out of security controlled airports, on average, twice a week. Have done for over 15 years. The only time I have been challenged was by a 'Little Hitler' at Toowoomba who wanted to have a go at me for riding my folding push bike down the taxiway. He wasn't interested in whether I had an ASIC or not. In fact, I have not had an ASIC since 2009.Yes, it's a rort. Of course it is. One that will stay with us as long as there are those who continue to support it by shelling out their hard earned bucks for it to make it worthwhile for the government to persevere with it.

 

I have been itching to rally members to attend 'en masse' at the court house in support of one of our members who eventually gets pinged for this form of non-compliance. A few thousand irate aviators appearing on the court house doorstep might bring the issue to a deserved, long overdue conclusion. I'm still waiting...

Just saw this on the RAA website under Accident and Defect Summaries:

 

5/12/2017 Ballina Airport QLD Eurofox 3K Rotax 912 ULS A pilot conducted flight, YBAF to YBNA, which is security controlled with RPT operations, without va...

 

A pilot conducted flight, YBAF to YBNA, which is security controlled with RPT operations, without valid ASIC card.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

I was only ever asked for ASIC identification at Perth International and Brisbane International Airports and a Mt Isa (the place where Hitler learnt his trade)

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Just saw this on the RAA website under Accident and Defect Summaries:5/12/2017 Ballina Airport QLD Eurofox 3K Rotax 912 ULS A pilot conducted flight, YBAF to YBNA, which is security controlled with RPT operations, without va...

 

A pilot conducted flight, YBAF to YBNA, which is security controlled with RPT operations, without valid ASIC card.

I wonder who the poor bugger was? Plenty of self congratulation going on at Ballina security central I'm sure. Another major terrorist plot foiled by the ASIC scheme!

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Just saw this on the RAA website under Accident and Defect Summaries:.... A pilot conducted flight, YBAF to YBNA, which is security controlled with RPT operations, without valid ASIC card.

The inference being "haha, that's good" right? RAA being on our side, member organisation and all....

 

Why don't they help by printing a list of these fascist run airports we should avoid?

 

 

[Birdseye]

When I asked a well travelled person about corruption in third word countries, he said it was nothing like the corruption in Australia.The only difference was that in Australia, it was the govt taking the money or atleast a govt endorsed entity, so threrefore making it legal.

True, but private corruption is just as rife. Only problem is that the participants don't see it as illegal, just something that mates do for each other. Whether its inside the political or commercial arena doesn't matter.