building my Savannah-S in germany

[mcrowley]

You are doing a beautiful job! One word of encouragement if I may?

 

When I started building I kept getting frustrated by the little imperfections, dents, gaps, etc. About that time I had an opportunity to fly the factory demonstrator Savannah S. I asked, "Is this a factory built airplane? Built by professionals?" When the answer was yes and I saw many of the same imperfections I felt pretty good about my build. As my distributor here in Texas, Valter della Nebbia asked, "Do you like how it flies?" I said I absolutely love how it flies, handles, performs, etc. "Well then," he said, "don't worry about making a show plane, enjoy the build and dream of flying!" I found that to be good advice for me. Of course, with your attention to detail, you will probably accomplish both :-)))

 

 

[MajorTom]

Well, thanks. That is indeed very encouraging!

 

I just recieved my solid rivets AN470 AD-3-3.... the real ones, not the "fake-rivets" supplied with the kit. Now it is clear, how big the difference is. They are thicker in diameter with a different head. No wonder it is so difficult to get the supplied rivets in straight. Also got some a3 countersunk rivets now.

 

And made a bunch of stripes for varius purposes.

 

 

 

 

[MajorTom]

A friend of mine does professional car wrapping. So the idea is not to paint the bird, but to wrap it.

 

Does anybody know, if it is o.k. to have the shop head of the solid rivets a little domed. Would be better ( smoother) for the wrapping vinyl film.

 

I would apriciate every link to helpful articles! Thanks

 

 

[MajorTom]

I hate electric flaps my twin stick setup still uses the manual flaps as I changed the geometry of the flap lever and it just happens to fit really well. The first thing you do with the ICP twin stick kit is to throw away the sticks.

Oh shit... what is wrong with electric flaps???

O.K. without having much expirience, the sticks seemed short to me....Do you mean the whole stick?

 

Funny... this website changes the "Oh s h i t" into Oh *** ....

 

 

[rankamateur]

Funny... this website changes the "Oh s h i t" into Oh *** ....

It probably thought you meant "Oh F c u K"

 

 

[IBob]

I doubt there's anything wrong with electric flaps. Perhaps it depends on what sort of takeoffs and landings the pilot expects to be making. For myself I prefer the idea of manual flaps for two reasons:

 

1. Takeoffs and landings are already a mixture of variables. I like the idea of learning to fly those phases with the flaps at set positions. (I once had a very good camera, but with only a 135mm lens: while it was limiting in some ways, I learnt to be very good with that one lens.) And other pilots seem to manage very well with the manual setup, so I am not sure what the benefit of infinitely variable flap positions would be on this aircraft?

 

2. Raising the flaps promptly on landing can be good in some STOL or windy situations. Most electric flaps are slow acting, and do not allow this.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Raising the flaps promptly on landing can be good in some STOL or windy situations.

This can be a trap too! On about my second or third solo training, I put away both stages of flap in one motion and promptly began sinking. I quite simply hadn't built enough airspeed to fly clean and just began sinking instead. Manual flap allowed we to quickly reverse my mistake but it was a good lesson.

 

 

[MajorTom]

Just finished my first flapperon tip... nice

 

 

And worked on the tip of the rudder. The plan was to use stripes, as advised here. But when I see the part, I don't like to cut it. It is so nice and smooth. What about placing the tip over the rudderskin and riviting throu glasfiber, alloy-skin and rib in one step. Thereby saving all extra stripes and rivets... Any objections?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IBob]

Just finished my first flapperon tip... nice[ATTACH]49670[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]49671[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]49672[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]49673[/ATTACH]

 

And worked on the tip of the rudder. The plan was to use stripes, as advised here. But when I see the part, I don't like to cut it. It is so nice and smooth. What about placing the tip over the rudderskin and riviting throu glasfiber, alloy-skin and rib in one step. Thereby saving all extra stripes and rivets... Any objections?

 

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Nice work...you must be really pleased with that!

As for riveting through fibreglass/skin/rib as proposed, I would want to be confident that was not compromising the strength and durability of the aluminium assembly at that point?

 

 

[MajorTom]

Shame on me, but I am.

 

Just this is the question. On the other hand side, on the flapperon tips you rivet together plastic and alu. Glasfiber is much stiffer. But the last word has my inspector anyway !!!

 

 

[IBob]

Shame on me, but I am.Just this is the question. On the other hand side, on the flapperon tips you rivet together plastic and alu. Glasfiber is much stiffer. But the last word has my inspector anyway !!!

That only means there is no structural problem with building the flaperon tips in this way. It does not imply that the technique is appropriate in other areas.

For myself, since I do not have the engineering knowledge to analyse these things, I prefer to build the aircraft as designed and proven.

 

 

[MajorTom]

What about the little stiffeners in the stabilizer Bob? ;-)

 

I would not do anything to the static... honestly...I am no Enginer either. The rib and skin stays the same. Its just the glassfiber that gets rivetet at the same time.

 

Thanks for your thoughts...anytime!!!

 

Have a good night. ..Tom

 

 

[IBob]

What about the little stiffeners in the stabilizer Bob? ;-)I would not do anything to the static... honestly...I am no Enginer either. The rib and skin stays the same. Its just the glassfiber that gets rivetet at the same time.

Thanks for your thoughts...anytime!!!

 

Have a good night. ..Tom

I think you miss the point, MT...but at the end of the day it's your tail...in both senses!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Oh ****... what is wrong with electric flaps???O.K. without having much expirience, the sticks seemed short to me....Do you mean the whole stick?

Funny... this website changes the "Oh s h i t" into Oh *** ....

I had electric flaps in the C172 I used to fly and I hated them as they were slow to come up and down. I had always flown with manual flaps in gliders so prefer them as you can get them up and down quickly if needed.

 

With a STOL aircraft if you need to get off the ground quickly you can start your run then just pump the flap lever to full flap to pop you off the ground then slowly let them off as you gain speed but this allows you to get into ground effect quickly.

 

The stick itself is a shocker. its about 400mm long if that and straight up from the crossmember in the cabin. You have to be carefull not to separate jim and the twins when you pull the stick back so I made different sticks. I will find a picture and post it but it is in my blog...somewhere :)

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Dual sticks for Savannah's

 

Here is the thread on my twin sticks

 

 

[MajorTom]

Thanks Kyle, that lookes nice. Guess I will install the supplied sticks. Don't think my inspector will tollerate such nice fancy sticks. But it can't hurt install the small modification in the basis to make the stick removable.

 

And Bob, I'm sorry when I offended you. Questioning and requestioning is in my nature. It don't means something negativ. English is just a hobby of mine. I often miss the words in betwen the sentences and the fine nuances of speach. I value you opinion and your theads are my first place to look at, when I start a new chapter.

 

 

[IBob]

Hi MT, and no offence taken here.

 

I am just one opinion, and as I said before, there are many far more experienced than I am here.

 

My point, with regard to the fibreglass tip, was that I don't know if there are any problems riveting fibreglass to al skin to al frame as you suggested.

 

And since I don't know, I would want to check, before doing it. That is all.

 

As for the stiffening in the stabiliser:

 

That is riveted al to al laminations, used all over the aircraft, so clearly that works.

 

And since many owners have carried out this mod, I would say it is successfully tested.

 

 

[MajorTom]

if there are any problems riveting fibreglass to al skin

Oh... I see. You mean, take care if the material mix is o.k. in this place.... like don't mix this two metals on a boat...

I just checked, the Savannah has fiberglass wingtips.

 

 

[IBob]

Oh... I see. You mean, take care if the material mix is o.k. in this place.... like don't mix this two metals on a boat...I just checked, the Savannah has fiberglass wingtips.

No I don't mean that at all.

I mean that the al skin and the al rib are held together structurally by the rivet. If you also pass that rivet through a layer of fibreglass, will the skin/rib structure have the same strength?

 

 

[MajorTom]

Thank's

 

Hopfuly now I understand right.

 

 

[rmorton]

Would it help to have a strip of all to protect the fibreglass? It would worry me that the rivet splits the resin in the fibre glass. That said it isn't structural as far as I can see.

 

 

[MajorTom]

Finished the fin and rudder tips. No problems riviting the fiber glass.

 

Next step will be the tips for stabilizer and elevator.... this time alu stripes and rivnuts...

 

 

 

[rmorton]

Hi Thomas

 

they look great and a much tighter fit than the originals well done :)

 

 

[MajorTom]

Thanks Richard,

 

but as was pointed out the savannah is no show plane. I must be carefull not to get lost in unimportant details and overdo it.

 

Yesterday I spend 5 hours with elelevator tips and not even finished them. The work went very well, the trick with the alu stripes is absolutly great! Thanks Bob and Kyle and .... to share your knowlage!!! But still, time runs fast, when you are in your workshop....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcrowley]

Thanks Richard,but as was pointed out the savannah is no show plane. I must be carefull not to get lost in unimportant details and overdo it.

Yesterday I spend 5 hours with elelevator tips and not even finished them. The work went very well, the trick with the alu stripes is absolutly great! Thanks Bob and Kyle and .... to share your knowlage!!! But still, time runs fast, when you are in your workshop....

 

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It sure is rewarding to not only build your own airplane but to add the touches that make it distinctively your own. Nice work!