EFATO Question

[Guest Rocko]

Hi folks

 

Read the article in the RAA mag about EFATO, written by David Eyre. Good stuff.

 

For those who didn't read it, I'll summarise one section of his checklist:

 

If the engine fails after takeoff and below/above 500ft:

 

Adopt an attitude giving 65kts

 

Select landing site within 30 degree arc either side of aircraft

 

Check fuel pump on and carb heat on

 

Mayday call (if over 500ft), if time permits (under 500ft)

 

Tun off fuel and ignition

 

Select full flap before touchdown

 

Master off....land

 

Question I had tho, was why pull the carb heat on? Just in case the engine failure is due to carb ice, and the prop rotation might restart the engine?

 

Same question with fuel pump...Turn it on in case the mechanical pump wasn't working?

 

Wouldn't it then be reasonable to include a quick "attempt to restart engine" step in there?

 

Or are those two things done for another reason I'm missing?

 

Cheers

 

Scotty

 

 

[ahlocks]

'Carb heat' provides an alternate source of air to the engine and can eliminate things like the air filter being clogged, something blocking the air intake, collapsed ducting and of course, ice in the carb. Switching the aux fuel pump on, if it isn't your standard before takeoff drill to have it on, will eliminate mechanical pump failure.

 

My interpretation is that it is the standard engine failure drill. A quick routine to carry out as you trim for best glide and select a landing spot.

 

If you have time to try an engine restart great, but I think the message is to stabilise the aircraft into best glide as a priority and then select a landing spot out front with EFATO.

 

 

[youngmic]

Rocko, re. the quick air start idea.

 

Probably not included as time would not generally permit, but more likely is the fact that unless the engine has suffered catastrophic failure and seized, in which case no point, the propeller will mostly likely still be windmilling, in which case no need to use the starter motor. If correction of a fuel or induction problem is carried out then it should burst back to life.

 

Bare in mind that with higher compression engines flying slower than about 60 kts there may not be enough airflow to keep it windmilling, in which case refer to point one.

 

Mick

 

 

[sain]

That article anoyed me a bit. It would have been good for the editors to swap Adopt an attitude giving 65kts with Adpot an attitude giving best glide. Why is that important? for a lot of aircraft 65kts will not be best glide, so you may not get the range you need to get into that safe paddock.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I think the points above in the article are poorly written. It appears to be missing 'attempt engine restart' prior to the switching off of master and fuel. It doesn't mention an air restart, so it reads like you are wasting time by turning something on, then almost straight off again.

 

For me to sound correct, it should read something like:

 

If the engine fails after takeoff and below/above 500ft:

 

Adopt an attitude giving XXkts

 

Select landing site within 30 degree arc either side of aircraft

 

Mayday call (if over 500ft), if time permits (under 500ft)

 

Tun off fuel

 

Unlatch passenger exit(s)

 

Select full flap before touchdown

 

Master off....land

 

There are many other things that could be done but the important ones are there.

 

 

[crazy diamond]

Anytime the fans stop, the first thing I'll do is CFM, Carby Heat, Fuel Pump and Mixture rich, if they don't fix the issue, you're going down and follow what these other blokes have said. Please please please don't every try to turn back to the field without SUFFICIENT height, I watched AOPA President Ron Bertram turn back in the Lancair and go in, not a pretty sight! That said, my old man had a double failure in an Islander at Wilton moons ago and turned back and made it...It was empty and he had about 1200 ft up his sleeve.

 

 

[Guest browng]

One thing missing from both those checklist, (unless you have inertia reel belts) is "Tighten Harness". Unless we are doing aeros we rarely fly with harnesses tightened to the max, particularly the shoulder harness. As soon as you have done all you need to do at the panel, tighten the harness to its maximum, tight enough to hurt if necessary. Even slight play in the harness when hit with a 100kg load and sudden deceleration can (a) cause chest injury, (b) in extremes cases break the harness or its attachment points due to 'whip' loads.

 

 

[Guest vanbudo]

I have only had the pleasure of 1 EFATO & was on the deck real quick... & walked away so that was a good outcome in my books. correct me if i am wrong but one should adopt Vy for their aircraft & may well not have time to do much else while they sweat over dodging the gum trees that are in that 30 degree arc either side of their course.

 

it all happens real fast

 

 

[Yenn]

A lot of good advice here but I have my doubts about trying to re start and using carby heat and fuel pump.

 

Usually the pump would be on anyway for T.O. and full throttle icing would not be removed by carby heat on a dead engine in the time available. one of the worst things that can happen is a sudden surge of full power followed by another stoppage, that is going to play Hell with your approach and be worse than a steady glide.

 

If less than 500' with draggy plane you have very little time to play with and even if you can get a descent rate of 500' / min, there are only seconds available.

 

 

[facthunter]

Engine failure.

 

browng. makes a very important point. Tighten that harness real tight. The other thing is to be ready to fly better than you have ever done. At least put everything into it, so that you control the plane at all times. A partial engine recovery can put you off your plan, and can encourage you into a bit of wishfull thinking, where you end up having to land in a worse situation than what faced you initially. Play with fuel, carb. heat make radio calls etc. IF YOU HAVE TIME! and not to the detriment of your aircraft control.Close the throttle, (in case a temporary burst of power spoils the situation )& then, Fuel, mags.,& electric master OFF, prior to land. The fact is ,that at about 500' it's all happening real quick, especially in a draggy aeroplane. My thoughts anyhow. Nev...

 

 

[Flyer]

I'd start with fly the plane. Get Vbg really quickly, dont turn back and keep your head outside the cockpit if you're below 500'. You do not have time to fluff around...

 

If you have an engine quit at 100' you've got exactly about 15 seconds to deal with it and half of that time will be taken up with "this is not happening to me...".

 

Aviate first and IF you can remember the checks AND you have time, by all means do them.

 

I know I take off with fuel pump on so all I'd be reaching for if I remembered and had time was carby heat, not to de-ice but for an alternate (partial) air source.

 

Before you get into the air however, brief yourself on what you will do in the event of an EFATO..... BEFORE you start your roll.

 

You have 2 responsibilities....

 

1. not kill yourself

 

2. not kill anyone else

 

Everything else is a material posession and can be fixed with suitable quantities of cash....(hopefully from an insurance company).

 

My thoughts.....

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest Rocko]

65 knot speed stated

 

I know he did say that the airspeed was 65kts, but he did also point out in the previous written paragraph it was based on the Jabiru, so fair enough, as far as best glide speed goes

 

Scotty

 

 

[Flyer]

Um.... a Jabiru sinks like a brick at 65 but glides well at 70 ....from seat of my pants with a fence rushing at me observation....:;)6:

 

I do believe I scared the bejesus out of my poor instructor that day....

 

Go out into the training area and understand what best glide and minimum sink speeds feel and look like. It will be worthwhile....

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

I'm definitely not trying to be pedantic here, but I think that this distinction is important:

 

Vbg best power-off glide speed; the speed that provides maximum lift-to-drag ratio and thus the greatest gliding distance available.

 

Vy speed for best rate of climb. This provides the best altitude gain per unit of time.

 

The two speeds are often similar. Please don't confuse them however. Before you open the throttle on any aircraft you should have been to the POH and determined the Vbg for that a/c. It is a mandatory recall item. If you don't know that and the fan stopped then it might cost you your life.

 

BTW definitions from Wikipedia and yes they are to all intents and purposes correct.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Flyer]

Thanks for pointing that out Mike. I feel slightly embarrased and I've corrected my previous post....

 

 

[Mathew Ker]

Perhaps the best value from the printed article is that people are considering what are the appropriate drills for this particular emergency. Whilst there will be differences depending on what aircraft you are flying, it's a timely reminder to be thinking ahead of the aircraft and not always reacting to what is happening, by then it may be too late or at best, you are limited in what actions you can safely take.

 

Mathew

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I've had 3 engine / partial failures and for me I found that all the checklists in the world wouldn't have helped me at the time.

 

Two of them happened so quickly that nothing could be done, other than to point in the right direction and hope for the best.

 

First one happened in a powered parachute - Aerochute. Operating at 500ft. Engine stopped back to idle. I just had to hold on, hope for the best and flare as best as I could. Managed to land safely.

 

Second was at 6,000ft flying at VNE. Lost spark on 2 (6 cylinder) cylinders on the one side. Had a couple of revs above idle and that was about it. Didn't need to worry about a restart becasue it hadn't stopped. Managed to stretch my descent to an airport 22 miles away but couldn't have gone even 100 metres further. In hind sight, should have looked somewhere closer, but was more concerned about getting the aircraft out of where it would end up stuck and should have considered more carefully the fact that the engine could have stopped completely, although the symptoms suggested that it wouldn't.

 

Third time was engine failure on take-off. 10 ft above the runway, full power, 70 knots. Managed to stop by the end of the runway. Had no option but to flare and put it down again. Had their been no runway left, it would have been bye bye aeroplane.

 

Every incident is so very different. Suggest that you keep your flying regular to keep ahead of the game to increase your chances, but by all means, learn your checks and do your best to follow them.

 

Don't worry Phil, people try to kill their instructors every day. It's normal student behaviour!

 

 

[jcamp]

EFATO before 500 ft

 

Plane has failed you - write off

 

Nose down - keep airspeed

 

What you see in the windscreen is what you have

 

Pick the least worst option for you, maybe fly between trees not stall on top.

 

Fly to the last

 

Mentally think and plan NOW - when it happens you just have to put the plan into action, no time to debate. Those who have done CONTACT or AMBUSH drills will know the reasoning.

 

Personally 200 ft EFATO

 

120 ft partial EFATO

 

 

[crazy diamond]

Yenn, read my post carefully and you will note I say "Anytime the fan stops", bit like I use "check three greens" in everything I fly, that way I never forget and it's just good airmanship, that thing that seems to be diminishing these days. But if you take the best of the posts here and put them to practice if you ever have to you'll walk away, it's all very good.

 

 

[Guest browng]

.......Fly to the last

Indeed, and as others have said;

 

"If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover

 

"If an airplane is still in one piece, don't cheat on it; Ride the bastard down. -" Ernest K. Gann

 

Please don't try to improve on the lessons evolved since the Wright Brothers, apply the 'KISS' principle and learn from the mistakes of others. You can be absolutely certain you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

 

 

[Yenn]

Crazy Diamond. I did read your post but my comments are addressed to all and the subject was EFATO.

 

I think we all know what to do from what is written here. The hard part is doing it. I have survived 3 forced landings, one of which was at takeoff. The one landing I did stuff up was with full power available but I changed my mind well into the landing and jumped a fence to use a different runway, hit a mound of dirt hidden in long grass, but it was a stupid trick. once commited dont change your mind without an extremely good reason. At least I learnt from that.