Replacement poll on RAA weight and CTA

[bexrbetter]

. I don't think I'll I'll ever get into a tilting canopy aircraft again.A member of our saaa chapter flipped his RV a few months back. While it was on its back he was unable to be extracted for about an hour. .

It was pancaked, canopy type would have made little difference.

 

Extra weight allows a rollcage and other strength items to avoid this, that's what I have been saying for a while now.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Av8rr

 

You've got a thirsty plane, has it got two motor's!. LoL.

 

HB, 100 knts @ 5ltrs per hour

 

spacesailor

 

 

[ave8rr]

Av8rrYou've got a thirsty plane, has it got two motor's!. LoL.

HB, 100 knts @ 5ltrs per hour

 

spacesailor

Always liked the HB...Have plans but never started the project. Yes 28 lts P/H is high but can carry two in comfort with autopilot etc at cruise alts of 8-10 thousand with good baggage capacity. Three fuel stops between Bundy Qld and Kununurra WA.

Mike

 

 

[spacesailor]

Ave8rr

 

Not to worry!, if I drove a car at 10 l/h from Bundy to Kununurra WA, it would defiantly use more fuel in that trip than your total fuel use, and probably cost more in total than avgas.

 

Also would have a lot more hotel stay's to add to the cost!. For my two seater car.

 

An aviator flew from Orange to Temora at 28 l/h ( big radial) in a couple of hours, when it took me two day's driveing, and over70 lts .

 

spacesailor

 

 

[coljones]

Ave8rrNot to worry!, if I drove a car at 10 l/h from Bundy to Kununurra WA, it would defiantly use more fuel in that trip than your total fuel use, and probably cost more in total than avgas.

Also would have a lot more hotel stay's to add to the cost!. For my two seater car.

 

An aviator flew from Orange to Temora at 28 l/h ( big radial) in a couple of hours, when it took me two day's driveing, and over70 lts .

 

spacesailor

Remember - time to spare, go by air!!! The weather is only occasionally a pilots friend.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Always liked the HB...Have plans but never started the project. Yes 28 lts P/H is high but can carry two in comfort with autopilot etc at cruise alts of 8-10 thousand with good baggage capacity. Three fuel stops between Bundy Qld and Kununurra WA.Mike

28 L/H at 160 knots is probably pretty close or maybe even less than the typical jab/rotax on a $ per nm basis. Its pretty hard to match the RV9 in terms of pound for pound value all around

 

 

[spacesailor]

Would have loved to see if I could get 4 L/h, at 80knts, in my HummelBird.

 

alas stationery runs only, one hour at three Ltrs, P/h isn't bad but not flat out.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Hargraves]

I think Marks hit it squarely on the head, but unfortunately it (flys) in the face of what most RAA pilots are continually up against and trying to maintain that is ,cheap affordable flying and stopping the push towards expensive fake (sorry Donald) GA type aircraft. Cheers Mick

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

A little thread drift?

 

Just go back and read what has been written. What a shambles the low end of Australian aviation is. A conflicting mish mash of silly rules none of which have much justification (45 knot stall? Really? where did that come from? The FAR 23 61 knot limit came from historical forced landing survival rate data collected in the field - WW2 mainly. Higher weights will allow stronger aircraft with more crashworthy cockpits), overseen by a bunch of mini CASA's all of which owe allegiance to big brother CASA.

 

RAAus/GFA etc could be replaced by a few simple amendments to the regs. regarding PRIVATE aviation.

 

1. Medical will be RAAus Driver's Licence standard. See also AOPA medical proposal and don't forget to support that in comments to current CASA medical discussion paper. You have until end of March.

 

2. Owner maintenance permitted on aircraft under certain weight limit/complexity. See Canada for how this works.

 

3. Formal certification for aircraft under certain weight limit replaced by manufacturer's statement as to what standard the aircraft was designed and tested to. Essentially this is what happens with Experimental amateur built. Having a professional, who has done it before, build your aircraft is arguably safer than nailing one together in your garage (which is permitted). See South Africa which has an enlightened attitude to this.

 

Then we wouldn't have the unedifying spectacle of a government department requiring membership of private bodies in order to carry out certain activities. There would simply be one law for all citizens/residents. Same as when you drive your car. You don't need to be a member of NRMA, RACQ etc to hold a licence and own and use your car.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You don't need to be a member of NRMA, RACQ etc to hold a licence and own and use your car.

You pay your registration fee yearly, most States have yearly car inspections and you are not only highly governed about how you may use your car, but watched closely daily while you do so with heavy punishments for being out of order - and often.

 

Bad comparison really.

 

As I mentioned, I believe the 45 knots is to do with crash kinetics and survivability, not your's or the plane's capabilities.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

You pay your registration fee yearly, most States have yearly car inspections and you are not only highly governed about how you may use your car, but watched closely daily while you do so with heavy punishments for being out of order - and often.Bad comparison really.

 

As I mentioned, I believe the 45 knots is to do with crash kinetics and survivability, not your's or the plane's capabilities.

----------------------------

Not really. The same rules are for everyone and you don't need to be a member of a private body to drive your car.

 

As for the 45 knots - where is the data to justify this? The 61 knot limit is evidence based.

 

 

[Keith Page]

First time doing a poll...still havent worked it out properly yet but this hopefully is better than the first attempt. Ian hopefully will remove the first one I did.

Hello Kyle, 760kg is the one not 750kg.

As I am not up to full speed the 760kg will cover the likes of the C150s and other 2 seaters around that range 750kg is a bit light for 4 of them.

 

KP

 

 

[Keith Page]

Just to be a pain I think you need to either do it as three seperate polls or allow multiple answers:wave:

You have them now..

KP

 

 

[geoffreywh]

From the poll you can see two distinct groupings. G.A. like, and Non-G.A. like. There's a good case to split the RAA into two groups and RAA can chase increased access and weight priveliges for those that want "G.A. Like" (non-derogatory! for want of a better description) and for Regs and Manuals and membership/insurance costs to reflect that. I really don't want the RAA spending my membership fees on chasing something that I have no interest in.I'm not "against"

 

anyone wanting more, I just don't want to pay for it.....

 

 

[Dave English]

What happens when an RAA licence is the same as an RPL? Does RAA get folded into CASA?

 

 

[terryc]

From the poll you can see two distinct groupings. G.A. like, and Non-G.A. like. There's a good case to split the RAA into two groups and RAA can chase increased access and weight priveliges for those that want "G.A. Like" (non-derogatory! for want of a better description) and for Regs and Manuals and membership/insurance costs to reflect that. I really don't want the RAA spending my membership fees on chasing something that I have no interest in.I'm not "against"anyone wanting more, I just don't want to pay for it.....

We do have two distinct groups 1. Raa 2. Ga. Why for the love of god do we want ti fiddle with it.

 

 

[Hargraves]

Befor we go putting our faith in pseudo TV like polls that only ask the questions that will enabale the answers they prefer. How about we lobby our board to spend some money on a mailout to members only asking the relevent questions starting with, do you as a member want an increase in mtow for RAA registered recreational aircraft. Yes or no, I would be happy to go along with whatever the majority wants.

 

 

[ave8rr]

With one serious and two fatal RAAus accidents in the past 10 days or so I doubt there will be much if any change to the existing rules in the short to medium term.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Befor we go putting our faith in pseudo TV like polls that only ask the questions that will enabale the answers they prefer. How about we lobby our board to spend some money on a mailout to members only asking the relevent questions starting with, do you as a member want an increase in mtow for RAA registered recreational aircraft. Yes or no, I would be happy to go along with whatever the majority wants.

Do you really believe the current administration actually cares what "members" want?

I believe they have their OWN agenda!

 

 

[Hargraves]

Good point Mike sad but true and I think your right Frank but do'es that mean we should sit back and do nothing about the push to GA

 

 

[bexrbetter]

----------------------------Not really. The same rules are for everyone and you don't need to be a member of a private body to drive your car.

As for the 45 knots - where is the data to justify this? The 61 knot limit is evidence based.

Don't be a pendent, you have to be a member of 2 bodies to drive a car, registration and insurance, regardless of them being "private" or Government.

 

The rules are not the same for everybody, trucks and buses are different for example.

 

I don't have time to look up the information that I have previously read, but basic physics tells you that a 60 knot impact is of a force some 80% higher than 45 knots. The forces involved with stopping are not linear, they are exponential. 45 knots wasn't set because it was someone's favorite number.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Hello Kyle, 760kg is the one not 750kg.As I am not up to full speed the 760kg will cover the likes of the C150s and other 2 seaters around that range 750kg is a bit light for 4 of them.

KP

And the guy with a 770kg plane gets left out?

 

You have to cap it somewhere.

 

With one serious and two fatal RAAus accidents in the past 10 days or so I doubt there will be much if any change to the existing rules in the short to medium term.

Or alternatively it could be seen as needing review to stop the fatals?

 

 

[Keith Page]

And the guy with a 770kg plane gets left out?

 

You have to cap it somewhere.

 

You are correct the cap has to be somewhere.

 

It was mentioned to me 760kg is the way to go because this and this and this will fit and with a little bit, the weight was researched yep home work done the reasons were well founded the weight was not plucked out of the air -- not like a lot of stuff on this forum.

 

The informant was adamant 760kg is the way to go I am scratching my head as to who it was I just can not remember who it was. "Was Not"' at an aero club at 10.30pm at night.

 

KP

[alf jessup]

I think if we get CTA endorsement we should abide by the aviation medical standards as we will be up there playing with the big boys carrying fare paying passengers

 

Unless of course CASA allows the commercial boys to fly under a drivers medical

 

If we want to play with the big boys we should abide by there medical standards

 

Quite frankly not a lot of us in our organisation are professional enough or disciplined enough to mix it with the big boys in my opinion

 

Ok bring all the bashing on about my comment, I'm big enough and mature enough to wear it

 

I've seen way too many cowboys flying in the RAA not that there is not cowboys in GA

 

 

[billwoodmason]

Can the results from this poll be taken seriously? - what's to stop someone with an agenda from casting multiple votes?.