pmccarthy Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'm posting this as it may help someone else. On Saturday I didn't plan to go flying because I have had a crook back and am not getting much sleep. I have been taking two paracetamol every 4 hours for a few days. I went to the aero club in the morning for a social catch up. It was a lovely day and I hadn't been flying for two weeks. I felt quite OK and I know that paracetamol is not supposed to affect attention etc. So I decided to go for a short local flight. About ten minutes into the flight I wondered why the plane was sluggish, then realised the flaps were still in takeoff position. The flight went OK but the landing was bad, I felt a bit zoned out. I put the plane in the hangar and went home. Today I couldn't find the aircraft keys. Went to the hangar and found them in the plane, mags still switched on. Mixture pulled, thats how I shut down. Master switch was off. I have never done that before in 46 years of flying. Dont think I am getting dementia yet. So it must be lack of sleep, discomfort from the sore back and maybe some effect of the drugs. It was a bad idea to go flying, but I felt quite OK before and after the flight. I will be a bit more cautious about my general alertness in future. 6 1 5 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 And luckily you are still here to learn from that and sharing it with us so that we can also learn. Thank You. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Lesson well learned... Thanks for telling your story PM, it is a timely reminder to stay alert and focused when behind the controls of our beloved aerial machines. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Great lesson for all of us pmccarthy Thanks for sharing you experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Checklists, checklists and checklists...thanks for sharing 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Checklists, checklists and checklists...thanks for sharing You know, I didn't want to say, but checklists have saved this forgetful sod's bacon on more than one occasion.... I swear by them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tuncks Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 To get the full value from checklists, you need to use them in more situations than just for flying. Try meals and exercise classes for example. Everybody in my club who has died, it is because they have failed in some non-flying checklist item. Nobody has died flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyG Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Thanks for sharing PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Written or memory .. Don't operate without them.. When in an aeroplane, think Aeroplane. It's like no other place the ordinary person ever goes. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Great share, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If I am feeling a bit low, I make a decision before I go to the strip that I will not fly. All it needs then is the ability to stick with that decision. Luckily I can do it, but the temptation is there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyG Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If I am feeling a bit low, I make a decision before I go to the strip that I will not fly. All it needs then is the ability to stick with that decision. Luckily I can do it, but the temptation is there. Fully agree with Yenn, Wouldn,t think twice about driving a car with a cold or feeling off but Flying adds that extra elements that makes the difference, Height and the extra workload of flying aircraft. Height comes with increased atmospheric pressure which can increase the normal effects of a cold or other ailments, Add the constant need for full concentration needed when flying its too easy to forget even something you would normally not forget. If your not fully on your game better to stay home & fly another day. Kudos again PM sharing these things could be the wakeup call others need . Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 .>SNIP< So it must be lack of sleep >SNIP< Almost certainly the main culprit if the pain had been causing loss of sleep over a few days. People tend to under rate the serious impact of accumulated fatigue on human performance. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 On Saturday I didn't plan to go flying because I have had a crook back and am not getting much sleep. ^^ That's the crux of what happened right there in that statement. We are quite used to acute fatigue in the airlines. The difference is that we don't operate single pilot, we strictly use checklists for almost everything, and we have a lot of warning systems which won't let us do anything silly. So we have a number of risk-mitigators which are not necessarily present in the sport aviation world. Even so, there are several bad accidents where fatigue has been a factor and I'd be lying if I told you we never fly fatigued. However we are also allowed to take short naps in flight if this is the case, while the other guy flies, until we get to the other end and can get a decent night's sleep in the hotel. No such luxury when you're single pilot. You can be fatigued like this but get the false impression you're ok as you walk out to the plane and get a bit of an adrenalin kick on the way. Fatigue is cumulative and you can't make up several nights of poor sleep with an afternoon nap or a coffee. You need a couple of nights of solid good quality sleep to recharge and until you get that, the fatigue will hang around with all its potential consequences. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Fortunately the airline world is more switched onto this than in the past. Many moons ago a freighter made three attempts to land at Heathrow during my tower shift in the early hours, they exhibited what I now know was the symptoms of fatigue reduced performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hargraves Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I have to admit to one lesson learned after a long night shift followed by a short fly ( because the weather had varstly moderated to a cracker of a forcast that morning). All went perfectly normal for a little extended cct flying but I noticed the aircraft felt a bit dragy in cruise so I headed back to land, when I did my downwind checks I found I still had first stage flap deployed. The point being while I felt the aircrafts preformance correctly I was to fatigued to identify the problem, a good lesson learned, cheers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverduk Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Thanks for sharing this experience with us all PM, it is a timely reminder for us all to never drop our guard, even when we consider a short local flight. As a low hours pilot about 4 years ago I went out flying whilst tired, I was completing circuits with T & G's while waiting for my wife to join me at the field for a local sight seeing flight. Prior to her arrival at the field, in the final stages of landing I completely lost the picture in front of me, applied power without elevation and wheelbarrowed into a 'landing.' My final thought before contact was that "this is it" as I had no time or answer for my predicament as my mind could not function. Fortunately it wasn't that bad, I survived with no injuries, shattered confidence and a very badly bowed base bar in my trike. It was some months before I even considered replacing the base bar and then only to make the trike a saleable item as I had decided I would not fly again. That is now history, with the help of my long suffering instructor, Peter McLean, I once again enjoy the freedom only flying gives you, it also made me realise that there is at least one good thing about having my trike hangared on a trailer in my shed at home, I get to consider all aspects about my flight in much more detail before I even hitch the trailer to the car, not only the weather but also every part of my physical well being and mental alertness are on my checklist now. This does mean I do not fly as much as I would like but it does mean that when I push the bar forward, I'm ready in every aspect for the flight ahead, which ultimately means at the end of my day's flying fun, I can once again message my wife, "down and safe, xxx" Blue sky's and tailwinds to all, cheers, Ross 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 It certainly was a "Human Factors" issue. Good discussion. Don't fly with upper respiratory tract Infections. Even a pressurised plane has a cabin alt of about 8,000 feet. I perforated an eardrum at Sydney in the 60's in an unpressurised Freighter. That's unbelievably painful, almost to the point of total distraction. I've also had a momentary "nap" turning final in the middle of the night at Hobart over the black hole right base landing to the west. Fatigue on night operations can be chronic. With stuffed up schedules and roster changes once I tallied four days without any real sleep. You can legally do 23 hours duty straight with an extra crew person. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 After all is said and done, we are in it for the recreation, are we not? If it's not fun or if you anticipate in any way it will not be that way, why not just give it a miss, live to fly a better day. As said on here many many times: It is better being on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I have to admit to one lesson learned after a long night shift followed by a short fly ( because the weather had varstly moderated to a cracker of a forcast that morning). All went perfectly normal for a little extended cct flying but I noticed the aircraft felt a bit dragy in cruise so I headed back to land, when I did my downwind checks I found I still had first stage flap deployed. The point being while I felt the aircrafts preformance correctly I was to fatigued to identify the problem, a good lesson learned, cheers I have a couple of night shifts coming up, so no flying for me for the foreseeable future, besides, the weather is forecasted to be horrible over the next few days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Over the years I've done quite a few 'ferry' flights across Australia. Many times I've done more than my 'limit' of 8 hrs per day. It's unusual for me to sleep really well at some isolated location, especially if weather is blowing through and you're waking every hour thinking about the tiedown security. By the end of the 3rd day, you are functioning on about 60% of your real capacity. Things begin to slip - eg, planning is sloppy, wrong frequency used, tanks not swapped, wx has changed and your ETA has blown out by 30 mins, and landing without flap from a straight-in......just to name a few. I now try to limit the flight times, and stay grounded if wx is going to stretch my fuel too far. If I experience a micro-sleep in the air - it's a warning, so it's down to the next strip for an hours nap, or even an overnight. An extra day in Port Lincoln isn't half bad, and it can save you battling a 25kt headwind all the way to Esperance. What you could achieve as a 30yo is far, far more than what happens when you're over 70. happy days, 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 In this game (recreational fun flying) you shouldn't place yourself in a position of "having" to fly on a particular day where YOU or the WEATHER are not quite what you would desire. IF you are tired, had a bad night, eaten a suss pie or bit odd chicken sandwich that's time expired, fly tomorrow. "She'll be right" often isn't, and there's plenty of examples of that out there. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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