Experimental Amateur built major portion 51%

[spacesailor]

Well thats as clear as Mud

 

"approved where in fact is only not disapproved".

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

I think I'll ask a "Corporate Lawyer" to sit with me (Neighbor's son), just to see his reaction to the rubbish we are supposed to know!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Icarus]

I'm just happy to be learning all this now before I purchase a kit or aircraft.

 

Lets see if I can summarise the system/process.

 

Only a CASA Authorised Person [AP]can issue a Special or Experimental Certificate of Airworthiness for both GA and RAA aircraft .

 

The same AP decides if you have completed 51% of the build.You need to prove this 51%using a builders log and possibly checklist sheets.

 

If it is a Kit and on the FAA approved 51% kits list then the checklist is probably not necessary , just use a builders log , with photos dates etc.

 

If registering GA Experimental you can then perform maintenance on your 51% aircraft after also completing a maintenance course.

 

If registering RAA you can perform and sign for maintenance on your aircraft after completing the L1 maintenance Test online.

 

If purchasing a GA experimental that someone else built , then you cant do maintenance on the aircraft [ however there is a list of acceptable maintenance tasks you can do]

 

If purchasing a RAA aircraft that someone else built ,you can perform and sign for maintenance on the AC after obtaining your L1 after a passing the online test.[ hire and flight school needs L2 ]

 

If you do not get a L1 then your pilots certificate allows Line Maintenance [ things like pre flight inspections and some maintenance like oil change , etc]

 

If you want to do a weight and balance on your RAA aircraft you need to have successfully completed the RAA online weight and balance course to become a qualified weigher.

 

I hope I have that all correct !?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I'm just happy to be learning all this now before I purchase a kit or aircraft.Lets see if I can summarise the system/process.

Only a CASA Authorised Person [AP]can issue a Special or Experimental Certificate of Airworthiness for both GA and RAA aircraft .

 

The same AP decides if you have completed 51% of the build.You need to prove this 51%using a builders log and possibly checklist sheets.

 

If it is a Kit and on the FAA approved 51% kits list then the checklist is probably not necessary , just use a builders log , with photos dates etc.

 

If registering GA Experimental you can then perform maintenance on your 51% aircraft after also completing a maintenance course.

 

If registering RAA you can perform and sign for maintenance on your aircraft after completing the L1 maintenance Test online.

 

If purchasing a GA experimental that someone else built , then you cant do maintenance on the aircraft [ however there is a list of acceptable maintenance tasks you can do]

 

If purchasing a RAA aircraft that someone else built ,you can perform and sign for maintenance on the AC after obtaining your L1 after a passing the online test.[ hire and flight school needs L2 ]

 

If you do not get a L1 then your pilots certificate allows Line Maintenance [ things like pre flight inspections and some maintenance like oil change , etc]

 

If you want to do a weight and balance on your RAA aircraft you need to have successfully completed the RAA online weight and balance course to become a qualified weigher.

 

I hope I have that all correct !?

Essentially, yep you seem to have it.

 

I'm not sure if the same AP can do both RAAus aircraft and Experimental GA. I am making a guess that they are different APs. I don't have any knowledge of the RAAus AP system.

 

There are APS for experimental GA who hold their AP status through the SAAA ( still delegates of CASA but are members of SAAA and basically do the C of A for SAAA members) and there are some who have an AP qualification entirely outside of the SAAA ( still as CASA delegates).

 

The maintenance procedures course (MPC) does not sound like the L1 course but I could be wrong.

 

The MPC done for the GA experimental is essentially a two part face to face classroom course ( takes a weekend). The first part is the bookwork part and has been a part of the MPC since I did my first one in about 2007 or so. The bookwork is just that - how to do all the paperwork associated with doing maintenance. How to find stuff on the CASA website ( bloody difficult!!) and where to find the rules and guidance about maintenance ( FAA AC 43:13 etc) and how to fill in forms, the rules about and what format log books have to have etc. anything paperwork related to maintenance. This is NOT about maintenance as such. I have done several of these courses and they are basically nothing about hands on work.

 

Interestingly, If you are a real LAME You have to do a similar course and you can do the SAAA one to fulfill the requirement for your real LAME job. So it's a proper course not just a Mickey Mouse weekend jolly.

 

The newer bit and only " how to do actual maintenance" is the weight and balance module which is an add on which started only about 2 years ago. If you have done an MPC in the past and not done the W & B module you can do it as a stand alone module ( for $25) but it's only valid for 2 years.

 

And just to complicate the GA experimental. Let's say you helped build some parts of the plane but not all the >51% - just some of them. The AP can give you approval to work on just the bits you did build.

 

 

[rgmwa]

If registering GA Experimental you can then perform maintenance on your 51% aircraft after also completing a maintenance course.

Anyone can do maintenance on a GA experimental but only you as the builder can sign the maintenance release, provided you have passed an approved maintenance procedures course (which is all about rules and regulations, not maintenance).

 

If purchasing a GA experimental that someone else built, then you cant do maintenance on the aircraft [ however there is a list of acceptable maintenance tasks you can do]

Again, anyone can do the maintenance on a GA experimental. If the aircraft you bought is similar to one you have previously built (eg, built RV-4, bought RV-8), then you can also sign the maintenance release (as above). If you haven't got that background, then you need to get a LAME to sign the maintenance release.

rgmwa

 

 

[spacesailor]

Had a try at the online test But,

 

" 1/ The ARFORS needed for the flight MUDGEE – COWRA

 

2/ Squawk code 7600 select the ADF to 'transmit' and advise ATC of the failure

 

3/ These choices from CASA where too easy, so we changed one to make it harder."

 

That last line cover's my dilemma, as if its not hard enough to do the test they (somebody) makes it harder!.

 

ADF = Australian Defense force/ no idea on arfors

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Had a try at the online test But," 1/ The ARFORS needed for the flight MUDGEE – COWRA

2/ Squawk code 7600 select the ADF to 'transmit' and advise ATC of the failure

 

3/ These choices from CASA where too easy, so we changed one to make it harder."

 

That last line cover's my dilemma, as if its not hard enough to do the test they (somebody) makes it harder!.

 

ADF = Australian Defense force/ no idea on arfors

 

spacesailor

Which test are you referring to?

 

Is this out of the RAAus L1 maintenance test???? Surely not!

 

Sorry I'm completely lost on what this is about.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Anyone can do maintenance on a GA experimental but only you as the builder can sign the maintenance release, provided you have passed an approved maintenance procedures course (which is all about rules and regulations, not maintenance).

Again, anyone can do the maintenance on a GA experimental. If the aircraft you bought is similar to one you have previously built (eg, built RV-4, bought RV-8), then you can also sign the maintenance release (as above). If you haven't got that background, then you need to get a LAME to sign the maintenance release.

 

rgmwa

Re: Anyone able to do maintenance. Yep but I think that's the same with all aircraft. I know when I had a certified aircraft the LAME employed completely unqualified helpers who did much of the work, and I also helped, (and the LAME did some of it ) and then "inspected" the work the unqualified employee did before signing it off.

So while you're correct I think the general gist of the conversation has been "doing maintenance" = the overall job (is:hands on plus signing off )

 

You can build it but elect not to do the maintenance. Then you get a LAME to do it AND sign off on the work.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Ok, here's a question.

 

If I built a plane using the 51% rule, then sell and buy a factory built.

 

Do I still need to do the L1 course?

 

 

[aro]

Anyone can do maintenance on a GA experimental but only you as the builder can sign the maintenance release

I'm pretty sure that is the rule for Experimental in the USA, not Australia.

 

In Australia it is much more restrictive. The CASA instrument spells out exactly who can do what, my understanding is that if it is not in the instrument the normal rules for GA aircraft apply (Schedule 8?).

 

In the USA, many of the regular GA maintenance requirements do not apply to the Experimental category. In Australia, the normal maintenance rules apply to Experimental, hence the need for the instrument to allow builder maintenance.

 

 

[rgmwa]

So while you're correct I think the general gist of the conversation has been "doing maintenance" = the overall job (ie:hands on plus signing off )

Yes, just wanted to clarify the distinction between performing maintenance and signing off in response to post #28.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[rgmwa]

I'm pretty sure that is the rule for Experimental in the USA, not Australia.In Australia it is much more restrictive. The CASA instrument spells out exactly who can do what, my understanding is that if it is not in the instrument the normal rules for GA aircraft apply (Schedule 8?).

 

In the USA, many of the regular GA maintenance requirements do not apply to the Experimental category. In Australia, the normal maintenance rules apply to Experimental, hence the need for the instrument to allow builder maintenance.

Yes, I stand corrected on the `anyone can' as per US practice. As I read it, Instrument 15/16 which covers Experimentals, requires anyone doing maintenance to have at least a requisite level of prior experience on the bits they are working on.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[spacesailor]

Jaba-Who

 

Pilot practice exams, Was hoping for someone to enlighten me on "Afors & ADF" pertinent to the pilot exams.

 

My fault, the heading should have read "Had a try at the online pilot practice exam test".

 

"I know nothing" about a squawke box.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Icarus]

If I built a plane using the 51% rule, then sell and buy a factory built.

 

Do I still need to do the L1 course?

 

Yes . You need to do a L1 test even with a 51% aircraft you built.

 

As of 1/2/17 anybody signing a maintenance log for maintenance other than line maintenance must have L1

 

Remembering that the tech manual was updated 4 August last year

 

From the RAA Tech manual:

 

SECTION 11.1

 

MAINTENANCE POLICY Under a grandfather clause all members who are maintaining their own RAAus registered aircraft have until 01/02/2017 to complete the L1 maintenance authority assessment. After 01/02/2017 members who have not completed the L1 assessment cannot continue to sign for maintenance performed on their own aircraft. (Does not apply for members completing line maintenance only)

 

 

[Icarus]

RGMWA

 

Thanks for the clarification re who can sign for the GA maintenance.

 

L1 is authority to sign for maintenance on ones Own aircraft. Someone else can be an L1 and do maintenance on your AC but the sign off must be the L1 owners or L2.

 

This means L1 cant sign off for other aircraft owners maintenance except for duplicate inspections

 

From RAA Tech manual;

 

Level One (L1): Pilot Certificate holders. Perform and record maintenance activities carried out only on their own aircraft which are not used for hire and/or flying training. Completion of a Level 1 training course is required.

 

 

[Icarus]

I'm not sure if the same AP can do both RAAus aircraft and Experimental GA. I am making a guess that they are different APs. I don't have any knowledge of the RAAus AP system.

Here you go Jaba :

 

From section 3.3 RAA T M

 

2.2 Special Certificates of Airworthiness can only be issued by a CASA Authorised Person, or CASA. No RAAus maintenance authority holder is eligible to issue such certificates unless they hold a CASA Instrument of Appointment to issue such certificates.

 

and

 

Section 3.4

 

2.2 Experimental Certificates can only be issued by a CASA Authorised Person, or CASA. No RAAus maintenance authority holder is eligible to issue such certificates unless they hold a CASA Instrument of Appointment to issue such certificates

 

I'm Sure there are RAA members who are Aurthorised Persons just as the SAAA would have members who are AP. Their memberships appear to be irrelevant to the issuing of the C of A. ie RAA member AP can issue certificate for GA experimental and LSA and ELSA and vise -versa