When not to fly

[Admin]

As pilots we love taking to the skies, never are we more happier than to be up there looking down at the world. However we as human beings tend to look for and try and do activities that we think will cheer us up and help us get away from our problems when we are suffering depression. Depression has an unwarranted stigma attached to it and especially males stay quiet about our feelings, it's not "manly" so we suffer in silence. But at this time we should be opening up and turning to our friends and seeking professional help instead of trying to hide it and escape into an activity that we think will make it go away...like flying.

 

Do you have a checklist before turning the key and starting the engine that says "Am I mentally ok today"

 

beyondblue

 

 

[pmccarthy]

As a young man I found flying was the best cure for depression. I would get up to 5000 feet and look down on my home town and think that it was so small, and everything there was petty and insignificant. I felt good for days. So I would not discourage depressed people from flying, as long as they have a healthy respect for their own safety. It is part of the cure if it can be done safely. Perhaps part of a checklist would be to ask whether you had a late night, too much to drink the previous evening or these days drugs in your system. Then no matter how competent you might feel you could fail yourself on the checklist and it would be an incentive for healthier living.

 

 

[IBob]

As pilots we love taking to the skies, never are we more happier than to be up there looking down at the world. However we as human beings tend to look for and try and do activities that we think will cheer us up and help us get away from our problems when we are suffering depression. Depression has an unwarranted stigma attached to it and especially males stay quiet about our feelings, it's not "manly" so we suffer in silence. But at this time we should be opening up and turning to our friends and seeking professional help instead of trying to hide it and escape into an activity that we think will make it go away...like flying.Do you have a checklist before turning the key and starting the engine that says "Am I mentally ok today"

 

beyondblue

I recently attended the funeral of a hugely talented young man, someone who had difficulty living in this life.

 

There must have been 300 to 400 people there, maybe more, and I stood there thinking how useless we all were now.

 

The family spoke, and they said this has to stop. And they said we have to keep taking to each other, we have to watch out for each other.

 

After that I talked with people I know, inside and outside my family and explained what I had seen and heard as a way of opening the subject. And I asked one or two of them, if they were ever in real trouble, they would be sure to call me?

 

So many of us know or have known what this is like, and I don't think that is going to change. But you're right, we have to change and find better ways to try and stop it. We cannot just carry on as we are.

 

 

[Admin]

As a long time sufferer of depression and since I had a huge wake up a few years ago with a medical issue I have been on a once a day tablet to keep my seratonin levels correct, however it can be a roller coaster ride at times...my posts here possibly reflect that at times

 

BUT to think a dangerous activity like flying is to be considered by anyone as a treatment is absolutely stupid and down and out dangerous not only to yourself but others as well. Suggesting that going for fly will help means that a person has absolutely no idea or grasp of what depression really is and to true sufferers.

 

You are so correct IBob, it is up to us as friends to be aware of others and to step in and take them by the hand if there is any doubt. Take them aside and just talk, lead them to professional help and if they want to go flying then you take them up but never ever think that flying is a possible treatment

 

 

[pmccarthy]

As a long time sufferer of depression and since I had a huge wake up a few years ago with a medical issue I have been on a once a day tablet to keep my seratonin levels correct, however it can be a roller coaster ride at times...my posts here possibly reflect that at times BUT to think a dangerous activity like flying is to be considered by anyone as a treatment is absolutely stupid and down and out dangerous not only to yourself but others as well. Suggesting that going for fly will help means that a person has absolutely no idea or grasp of what depression really is and to true sufferers.

 

You are so correct IBob, it is up to us as friends to be aware of others and to step in and take them by the hand if there is any doubt. Take them aside and just talk, lead them to professional help and if they want to go flying then you take them up but never ever think that flying is a possible treatment

So my experience counts for nothing and I am stupid?

 

 

[Birdseye]

Unfortunately SSRIs are seen by many GPs as the solution for all forms of depression, which they are not.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Unfortunately SSRIs are seen by many GPs as the solution for all forms of depression, which they are not.

What's an SSRI?

 

 

[SDQDI]

So my experience counts for nothing and I am stupid?

It's a complicated subject and one that definitely needs talking about. I agree wholeheartedly with your experience PMc and that has also been my experience.

But we have to remember depression isn't the same from person to person nor is it always at the same strength, we have to really understand the difference between a simple (as if there is such a thing) deep depression and a suicidal deep depression. Flying can certainly help one but could be disastrous with the other.

 

It is a shame that suicide has such a stigma, so much so that incidents of it are suppressed and not spoken about which is the exact opposite that needs to happen if we are to learn anything from them.

 

 

[aplund]

What's an SSRI?

Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. A very common modern anti-depressant which works by increasing serotonin levels by blocking the pathways in which it is naturally absorbed. Side-effects are very mild compared with other drugs except perhaps on starting and stopping the medication. There are other common types of anti-depressants like SNRI, which work on a broader array of neurotransmitters.

 

GPs aren't psychiatrists. But they should know when medication isn't working and to refer someone. The concern in when psychologists try to act as psychiatrists and GPs just sign off on the prescriptions.

 

 

[Birdseye]

What's an SSRI?

'Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor'

 

This would be what Ian refers to as "a once a day tablet to keep my seratonin levels correct"

 

They are a group or class of drugs that are frequently prescribed as antidepressants in the treatment of major depression and anxiety.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's a complicated subject and one that definitely needs talking about. I agree wholeheartedly with your experience PMc and that has also been my experience.But we have to remember depression isn't the same from person to person nor is it always at the same strength, we have to really understand the difference between a simple (as if there is such a thing) deep depression and a suicidal deep depression. Flying can certainly help one but could be disastrous with the other.

 

It is a shame that suicide has such a stigma, so much so that incidents of it are suppressed and not spoken about which is the exact opposite that needs to happen if we are to learn anything from them.

There's also reactive depression which hits us when we lose a loved one, or there's a bastard at work etc. and medical depression where aplund has pointed out some serious pitfalls in treatment.

Good ways to work reactive depression out of your system are to get physically moving, building walks into the day's routine and to do something different to the ordinary routine which gets your mind off the problem.

 

I saw P McCarty's post as doing just that.

 

 

[Admin]

I am driving to canberra at the moment but later i hv a story to tell

 

 

[johnm]

I was at a party / drinking hullabaloo over 30 years ago - a person I knew (we always had a talk (not a close personal talk though but as new friends do)) as I approached him he said off the cuff .................. 'look at me John standing around here like a stale bottle of pi55'

 

I don't know if I was supposed to understand the seriousness of the comment or it was a yell for help I did not hear - I never actually considered it until much later

 

days later that he left this world by his own hand

 

his sum total would have amounted to a lot and all would have said that - a nice bloke ................... I think now - if only I had of listened

 

 

[Nightmare]

I recently attended the funeral of a hugely talented young man, someone who had difficulty living in this life.There must have been 300 to 400 people there, maybe more, and I stood there thinking how useless we all were now.

The family spoke, and they said this has to stop. And they said we have to keep taking to each other, we have to watch out for each other.

 

After that I talked with people I know, inside and outside my family and explained what I had seen and heard as a way of opening the subject. And I asked one or two of them, if they were ever in real trouble, they would be sure to call me?

 

So many of us know or have known what this is like, and I don't think that is going to change. But you're right, we have to change and find better ways to try and stop it. We cannot just carry on as we are.

Recently, a work colleague of mine took his own life. I could not bring myself to go to his funeral. My train of thought on this subject was, and is, very complicated. I'm saddened by his departure, but extremely disappointed that he took this option when there were so many options open to him. Ultimately though, it was his choice to make, as is mine for not attending his funeral. Part of the problem with him, outwardly, he was always joking and smiling. You would never pick him as the suicidal or depressed type. Those are the people you can not do anything for, as the first symptom of their condition, in many cases, is their death.

 

In my job, I and my colleagues work so hard directly with suicidal and depressed people, trying to prevent them from doing the unthinkable. Mostly we are successful.

 

 

[Admin]

What is very important here is that there is a HUGE difference between being depressed and depression and the important fact that when does being depressed becomes depression. Generally we are not qualified to know when a person is depressed or is suffering depression. Making a statement "why don't you go for a fly, that will cheer you up, it cheers me up" could be sending someone to their death by you simply saying that. The average person is not qualified to make the distinction between the two and more often then not, the person suffering depression will not give any clear signs to an untrained person. A person that has suffered depression is more likely to be able to tell the difference than a person that has at times become depressed but still they are not qualified to do so nor to even know that a person that is depressed is having their first entry into depression...as I said, they are very much different

 

I will come out of the closet and tell 3 different stories...

 

Story 1

 

My father has SADs (Seasonal Affective Disorder) which whilst it is a form of depression for the sake of this let's just say its that you get depressed but in most cases just shows in the form of moodiness etc. He gets depressed but he doesn't have depression. Now if he was a pilot, saying to him why don't you go for a fly would probably cheer him up but to a person not knowing he has SAD's would not be able to distinguish the difference between that he is simply depressed or that he is suffering either his first bout of full on depression without him even knowing it, or that he suffers depression. So saying go for a fly because it cheers me up could be disastrous to him, it could be like putting a loaded gun in his hand and you didn't even know it.

 

Story 2

 

Back in 2013 I wanted to give up smoking:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/warning-champix-drug.63989

 

I had tried patches and everything else so the doctor prescribed me Champix, a tablet that removes the addiction to nicotine. If you read that post I didn't tell the full story in it. Just previous to it I was on Escitalopram tablets for severe depression but I had gradually worked myself down to a low dose and then halves and then quarters and finally off them. Next was to get off the smokes but whilst I felt good I still was a person that suffered depression. The Champix set off my depression to a point that I went into the garage to top myself off. I left no note, the wife and kids had no knowledge that I was in that state mentally other than that they thought I was just having a bad week, a bad hair day. The only thing that stopped me was I couldn't get the vision of my kids out of my mind. Now, if my family had no idea, what do you think would have happened if someone said to me "why don't you go for a fly, that will cheer you up because it cheers me up when I am depressed"...I could have been flying and just pushed the stick all the way forward and to hell with it all...there is a major difference between someone who is depressed and is cheered up when they go for a fly compared to a person that is showing little outward signs but is suffering depression. I went inside and told my wife who immediately called the doc etc etc but Corrine was told to stop me from taking champix and not to leave my side.

 

This depression was chemically induced and not a result of having many problems in life at that time...a big lesson can be learnt here and why we need to look out for our friends that if there is any hint that a person may be depressed, you are not qualified to say go for a fly. In fact when a person is like this they should stay away from all high risk activities and should be steered to professional help.

 

Story 3

 

I was up here in Canberra early last year and I ran out of my once a day seratonin balancing tablets. My kids call them Daddy's Happy Pills. No problem, Corrine faxed the script to the chemist and I went and got them. They were not the same brand but naturally had the same ingredients and dosage amounts. All good until about 1 week later. I went to bed as normal feeling fine etc. Woke up the next day I did not want to get out of bed. Eventually I did and was sitting on the couch in my dressing gown crying my eyes out, it was all too much. I called Corrine who immediately called the doc who then called me asking "what's wrong Ian?" I told her I don't know, I just don't know, but we worked out that the different brand of tablets was the cause. The doc called all the chemists in Canberra but no one had my usual brand. Corrine express posted new tablets of my brand up to me as fast as possible for the next day but still she had to ring me every half hour till I got them. I then had to take double doses every day for a week to come right again.

 

Now if someone had have called me on the phone before I called Corrine and said to me "go for a fly, you will feel better, I do when I get depressed" I again could have most likely just pushed the stick forward to end it all BUT then I was doing what someone suggested because it made them feel better.

 

THE POINT IS...A person that has depression very well knows the difference between being depressed and depression, they are 2 vastly different things but an average person doesn't know, nor do they know if a person is simply having a bad week, having their first slide into depression or is suffering depression so don't ever tell them to go and do something that you think may cheer them up just because it does you...you have to talk to them and steer them away from high risk activities and to professional help.

 

Remember, depression is NOT a sign of weakness, it is NOT a sign that you are weird, strange, nutty or even psychologically a fruit loop...it is simply a chemical imbalance in the brain with saratonin that maintains ones moods so please don't judge, but instead understand, and then you can help others and maybe prevent a fellow avaitor from simply pushing the stick all the way forward

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Ian, thanks fo sharing. We should all think deeply about it.

 

Peter

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You good people deserve thanks for dragging the Black Dog out into the daylight.

 

(A good dose of sunlight can be excellent medicine in itself.)

 

The very worst medicine is silence. My own severe depression started when I stood up for a principle, assuming my colleagues would support me (as I had so often supported them.) I lost much of my life's work, but the real damage came when I was ostracised by people I'd so often gone out of my way to help.

 

Unfortunately, when we need social connectedness the most, those support structures are taken away.

 

 

[MartyG]

Ian this is a fantastic site and I have read many good post with some very good advice but m8 what you have posted here tonight is one of the most selfless acts done for the benefit of others, Depression is such a misunderstood illness suffered by many, Your admissions of what you have experenced have given me and I,m sure others a better understanding of what others are trying to deal with. Thanks for sharing and I wish you all the best. Cheers

 

 

[Geoff13]

I don't know if this the right thread for it or not but suicide should be talked about more. We simply should not pretend it doesn't happen. Those left behind never get the answers that they need and believe me they do need answers. This has hit home for me so many times.

 

5 of my daughters year 12 class had suicided by age 25.

 

Several of my son's platooon from Afganistan are no longer with us.

 

3 members of my immediate family 2 on the same day.

 

Always the same questions. Why. What did I miss. What should I have done differently.

 

Trust me every time it happens a little more of those left behind dies as well.

 

And always the niggling doubt that it was my fault because I didn't see it coming.

 

I can't understand how anyone could do that and leave those they love behind especially when it had already happened to them.

 

Sadly for someone was has seen to many suicides up close and personal I simply cannot understand it.

 

I hope that doesn't make me a bad person.

 

So yes suicide does happen and we should talk about it more. Again I put a lot of it back on reporters and the media. Instead of saying crap like "there are no suspicious circumstances". Tell the truth say he/she comitted suicide. Get people talking about it. Get people asking why. Get people ringing their mates at odd hours just to say gidday mate how the f*** are you.

 

Pisses me of pussyfooting around the whole topic when it is real and it is here and it happens. Like I said sorry if this is in the wrong thread.

 

 

[red750]

Depression is a difficult condition to deal with. My son had depression, and we have to be alert to ensure that he doesn't suffer a relapse. We were very lucky, he found a very good doctor who just clicked with him, and things were turned around.

 

My son had been severely overweight, 192 kg actually. He almost lived on Macca's and Coca Cola, despite living at home, but it's hard trying to tell a 40yo how he should live. He worked for a bank and was under considerable pressure to achieve sales targets, you know, sell more credit cards to people who didn't need them and couldn't afford them, that sort of thing. His female manager was very critical, and not helpful. He found going to work most stressful. In addition, he had been a line umpire at the Australian Tennis Open for over 16 years, but was stood down due to his size. He would come home from work with a shopping bag full of Coke and Macca's and disappear into his room, closing the door behind him.

 

One night, there was a knock on the door, and it was two policemen. They had been contacted by a friend of his who said he had posted on Facebook that he felt like doing himself harm. They had a chat with him and suggested that he have a word with his doctor. The doctor put him on tablets which progressively overcame his depression.The doctor also told him that his weight was putting tremendous strain on his heart which could kill him unless he got it under control quickly. The doctor recommended a gastric bypass operation.

 

My son had the operation just over 12 months ago, and has lost 65 kg. In addition, he resigned from the bank, and got another job where he has done quite well, and is currently relieving as team leader with a view to taking on the role permanently. Since losing the weight, he again officiated at the Australian Open this year, where he received an improved rating, and is now only one step away from qualifying to umpire at Wimbledon. His confidence and self esteem have gone through the roof.

 

Depression is a little like alcoholism - you have to accept that you have a problem before it can be fixed. Most sufferers won't admit they have a problem.

 

 

[Nico13]

Ian, my concern at this moment is for you. I know you started this thread and talking about depression but what prompted you to do it. What I'm asking is are you ok?

 

I'm certainly no expert but just reading between the lines of your post I see you reaching out.

 

If you are anxious about something please talk to your family.

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks for asking Nico, greatly appreciated but I am fine. I didn't want to come out with anything as it is purely speculation at this stage but it is very much possible by reports that I have heard that a fellow aviator recently took his own life by pushing the stick all the way forward (please don't comment any further on this as it is speculation). It is this that prompted me to say something but as I said purely speculation at this stage but well worthy of posting. If we read my opening post it is an alert to all of us and something to think about not only before we turn the key in an aircraft but also towards our fellow aviators when we are talking in the club rooms and of course our family, friends and work colleagues.

 

And as Nico has said, always remember that all it takes for help is a simple phone call, a call to anyone you know and then for all of us to listen

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Pmccarthy is right to say that going for a fly will lift your spirits, if you're feeling a bit down.

 

Clinical Depression is completely different from 'feeling a bit down'. It is the worst condition, because the sufferer cannot see any way out, the fight is gone from them, the suicidal convince themselves that the world and society will be improved without them. If you break an arm, get the flu, have appendicitis; you can see your way to a future when it is fixed and you're back playing footy. Depression robs you of that. It is a deep dark hole. They don't want to burden people they love with their waste of a life, they can't understand that they are loved, valued and would be tremendously missed. They are willing to take a big risk on what is on the other side of death, usually convinced it is oblivion, an end of pain, and end to being a burden.

 

While it seems this is a modern disease, I have been reading a number of family histories and recognising depression in Australian pioneering families. There are some harrowing stories from my local area. The local paper was open about saying it was suicide, even publishing the note left, or describing the circumstances in minute, sensational detail. Now it isn't published for fear of copy-cat tendencies.

 

As fellow fliers, friends, parents etc, we should be looking out for each other. Tell them you appreciate them, tell them you care, tell them you couldn't bear to not have them around. Don't be afraid to give them a hug.

 

I felt down one day, and I went for a fly along the river at Longreach, followed the tourist boat, turned to watch the sun setting (I had NVFR) and the twilight settling into the fairy lights on the ground, the stars coming out one by one, and thought how wonderful it was to be alive. God was in his Universe, problems at work, the loss of a friend, too much to do; all melted away as I took a deep breath.

 

It's raining - the NBN Satellite can't handle rain or clouds - so this will have to wait till the morning, when it gets working again.... Ah Progress!

 

 

[Nightmare]

If I was on serious anti-psychotic medication for treatment of a mental health issue, I would seriously consider grounding myself until I was fit to carry on without them. Even then, discussing this with a doctor and getting him to clear me as "fit to fly". The side effects can be quite severe and detrimental in a pilots environment. I seem to recall the taking of medication, featuring in some of the exams when I was going through my RPC. The advice: don't fly if you have taken medication

 

Tony

 

 

[pmccarthy]

This note was reproduced in a 1908 Ballarat newspaper, from some research I have been doing. It reflects what FV is saying about the hopelessness. Does publication of these events make it worse or better for other sufferers? Is it even OK to publish this 109 years later?

 

Good-bye, my dear children, I cannot bear my trouble any longer. I am now only a miserable lump, it is only worry and trouble day and night, as I hardly get any sleep, and now I can hardly work. You all know how I was last summer, and I am afraid that I should be worse this one. My heart fails me at the thought of leaving you, but I feel that I am not able to do anything. Good-Bye. Try and think of me as kindly as you, can. — Your broken-hearted father.