2 Stroke Oil for Rotax What one?

[RickH]

A mate of mine runs Castrol 2t in his 582 but adds a product (a capfull) called Moreys (I think) lube to every 20 litres of fuel he swears by it and I have been with him when he's done the bearing wear test recommended by Rotax, at this stage there has been no sign of wear and I believe he has in excess of the 500 hrs recommended TBO.

 

 

[facthunter]

Are you suggesting that is the way to go Rick H? Roller bearing life is not particularly related to the oil used. It is more a question of time and loads or cage failure . I know of NO oil manufacturer who recommends the use of additives. In fact they all recommend against it (as far as I know). Two strokes are not over oiled and carbon in the ring grooves will make the engine prone to ring breakage, which means you stop without warning and expensively. Nev

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

...I believe he has in excess of the 500 hrs recommended TBO.

TBO is actually 300 hours or 5 years

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Methusala]

What happens then, John? I have seen 582's giving good service past 1000hrs. The golden rule with any aircraft that depends on a single power source to maintain safe flight is,"Don't fly where you can't glide to a safe landing." Don

 

 

[facthunter]

No doubt the 300 hours may be a bit conservative but then I am sure if it could be legitimately extended rotax would do it.

 

If a two stroke leans out on high power at any stage of it's life you can get a hole in the piston and sprayed metal ( aluminium) through the bottom of the engine.

 

Carbon in the ring groove can make it spit the ring through the exhaust port. That mangles up the side of the piston and you stop quick.

 

The roller bearing big end can fail the cage and seize or have pieces of hard metal flake off the surface of the crankpin at fairly high hours (Over 450) if you are unlucky and maybe 800 if you are lucky. Much above that and you need to be much more lucky. You can really not count on any kind of restart or continued operation on low power in these circumstances Nev

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

What happens then, John? I have seen 582's giving good service past 1000hrs.

I agree that the TBO is conservative but my opinion isn't really relevant! Rotax require the engine be shipped to "an authorized distributor or Service Centre".

 

The golden rule with any aircraft that depends on a single power source to maintain safe flight is,"Don't fly where you can't glide to a safe landing."

I absolutely agree.

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

I have used green slim aka Penrite oil, and I have used it to 10 000ft in WA's Pilbara, in he freezing areas of north Melbourne, he humid tropics of the Whitsundays and now in Adelaide, never missed a beat and always runs within the temp range on CHT EGT and water, I don't go beyond max specified RPM and replace oil and plugs as required . I will go o Castrol T2 when I run out.

 

 

[ausadvance]

Im using castrol 2t, and wayne fischer is also using 2t in his aerobatic. this said we are both running 503's, however wayne has a 582 on his 2 seater, and has changed to penrite in that (just to see how it goes). the other drifter in our hanger is a 503 that has also changed to penrite. Neither of wayne or the owner of the other drifter have noticed any improvement following the switch to penrite, and find that the 2t is a fantastic oil (its all Ive ever run as my aircraft came from always having run it so if it aint broke dont fix it!) however 2t's major advantage is availability!

 

 

[Methusala]

G'day All, 582's are a great engine. But they can fail at any time. I agree with FH that the older an engine is then the less reliability may be expected. Rotax have many reasons for setting the TBO for them at 300 hrs. Ambulance chasing lawyers being one of the less savory ones. Many of us fly recreational aircraft at the lower end of the cost scale. We accept a lower level of statistical security and "expect" an engine failure, flying accordingly. Many people have come to grief in all kinds of aircraft when engines have failed "unexpectedly" over inhospitable terrain. I use Castrol 2t for a couple of reasons. 1. Castrol are almost exclusively dependent on selling oil to remain viable. They can't afford to get it "wrong". 2. Many people say that they use it and find it acceptable. 3. It is a mineral based oil and so offers good film strength when used intermittently. (That's three reasons.) I agree that green slime is not a good choice for oil pump 582's. It is too thick to mix or disperse well. An engine that I rebuilt had run on t40 through a pump and after 300 hrs the ring lands were packed with residue. Also the needle rollers on one piston had failed. BTW an instructor that I knew who got 1000 hrs from a 582 also added a capful of Moreys additive to a tank of fuel. Cheers, Don

 

 

[Zibi]

Talking about oil for 582 - what gearbox oil would you suggest for it?

 

I know the spec calls for a 85W-140 EP or SAE 140EP, and here's where my problems start:

 

- what does the EP stand for, because all the oils that I could find were 85W-140 without any EP, only one that could come close was Nulon 85W-140 extreme pressure.

 

- what brand do you use, as again all I could find were Nulon, Penrite and I think Gulf western or something like that, and none of those names inspire confidence in me, I think there was one castrol 85W-140 but specified for rear axle.

 

So any advice would be welcome, as I need to replace it soon.

 

 

[skyfox1]

Hi Zibi

 

l use Penrite limited slip 85w-140 EP which stands for extreme pressure.

 

never had any problems with it.

 

cheers Geoff.

 

 

[Zibi]

Hi Zibil use Penrite limited slip 85w-140 EP which stands for extreme pressure.

never had any problems with it.

 

cheers Geoff.

I've talked to a lady at Bert Floods and she mentioned that as long as it's not some cheap K-mart one and meets the specs it should be ok.

She mentioned that they use Castrol 85W-140 Rear axle one.

 

 

[facthunter]

Strictly speaking EP oils are only needed on hypoid bevel gears. An oil meeting GL-5 would be ok Thicker oils may not be needed and may only cause a bit more oil drag . It's not a critical lube situation, but don't expect an engine oil to do it. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I've talked to a lady at Bert Floods and she mentioned that as long as it's not some cheap K-mart one and meets the specs it should be ok.She mentioned that they use Castrol 85W-140 Rear axle one.

Jeez, that sounds like professional advice. Dont use cheap K mart stuff, apart from that your good to go.

 

 

[facthunter]

I thought it was a valid comment. "Name" brand and meets the specs. Completely safe ...This is not a critical lube situation Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I thought it was a valid comment. "Name" brand and meets the specs. Completely safe ...This is not a critical lube situation Nev

I agree, but it does sound funny I reckon. It would have been better to say " Stick with well known brand names" I think.

We may have the Head purchasing officer from K mart, read this & be offended.lol He may be thinking WTF ? There is nothing wrong with our cheap stuff .

 

 

[Vev]

Strictly speaking EP oils are only needed on hypoid bevel gears. An oil meeting GL-5 would be ok Thicker oils may not be needed and may only cause a bit more oil drag . It's not a critical lube situation, but don't expect an engine oil to do it. Nev

Agree ... API GL5 will cover a multitude of sins in terms of loading capability and will leave plenty of safety in the bank in terms of boundary lubrication performance. If the viscosity is too high it will cause drag, it can over heat or may even begin to channel, that is, push away from the working surfaces and not recover back to lubricate no matter how much anti-scuff additive is used. Viscosity selection is an important consideration in gear lubes and the OEM spec should be used.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[Lizzard]

I have to chime in here ...

 

A few years ago ,while looking for an oil supplier in perth wa I chanced upon a guy in a back lane industrial suite filling 4 litre containers with oil from a 200 ltr drum .

 

The containers were labled castrol ,mobil,and shell ...all from the same drum!

 

Sensing my distress,the guy just looked up and said didn't you know?

 

Reading the rubbish that is written on oil bottles these days is like reading a new idea or woman's day ... nothing against women, but we are all fools to think that there is relevant information written on the bottle .

 

 

[allowera]

Hi Lizzard.

 

Er... Could be a good reason not to buy oil from a back alley in an industrial area. Never mind. :-)

 

I suppose we could then think about how long ANY oil sits around before it starts to separate or just 'go stale'. This could be in a shop or a warehouse.

 

An old friend advised me to store oil and fuel on a wooden shelf where possible. This may be an old wives tale. However, I have noticed that you don't get the same condensation as you do on metal shelving.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Geoff_H]

Hirth recommend that BlueMax is used in their two strokes, they sell it as does Recpower in the USA. I think it must be infused with gold from the price (LOL). However Hirth will tell you that the oil must me API TC rated. DEFINITELY NOT the cold water cooled stuff which I think has a W in the API rating.

 

 

[Cosmick]

I now use Castrol Active T2 but had used Penrite Hi-Per 2 stroke for years. Changed as Pentrite not on the Rotax recommended list below -

 

http://docusearch.flyrotax.com/files/pdf/d04362.pdf

 

FH Yep

 

 

[facthunter]

I presume you mean Penrite. They used to make a product called "green Slime" which was discontinued following a court case, quite a few years ago now.

 

Penns Oil in the USA product tested and back one of their oils for aviation use. This is somewhat unusual for a maker to do. TC W-3 is outboard spec and although the 582 is liquid cooled Rotax don't recommend those oils for the 582. Operating ring land temps determine to a large extent suitability of oils in two strokes and Rotax make specific mention of this in some advice they have put out. Some consider that synthetic oils don't always provide the best corrosion protection, so if your plane is not used every day, you might consider a high quality mineral based 2 stroke oil, if the syn oil hasn't got corrosion preventing additives .

 

Viscosity figures for gear oils aren't equivalent. An 80w 90 is equal to a "normal" 60 . nev

 

 

[Soleair]

Castrol TTS. As recommended by Leon Massa who builds the MZ 202 engine I use. He rebuilds lots of engines from the helicopter boys, & says TTS produces the best protection & least carbon.