Silly aviation pictures.

[Marty_d]

The lGoing backwards it'll be mainly a lot more drag...but going forwards, it's a sort of wing, who knows what sort of aerodynamic effect it might have...and maybe someone found that out the hard way???

True... although the extra drag on one side doesn't look helpful in any case... if it fitted, I think between the floats would be better. (My first thought is, not at all!!)

 

 

[Riley]

Can I just ask, why the hell wouldn't you at least put the pointy bits of the tinny at the front??

If memory serves me correctly, the drag resultant from 'stern fwd' is of lesser concern than the vortices created by the square stern following (but it's been a long time). Someone will correct me if I'm out in left field. cheers Riley

 

 

[Yenn]

Those who understand streamlining, know that the greatest drag comes from the rear of the object, so that tinnie is the correct way around. I always look at streamlined caravans and think that the designers know nothing. Beautiful forward fairing and a slab rear end. If you follow a slab ended vehicle n the road you can feel the lift from it. A semi can give you a lift at 50m back.

 

 

[Soleair]

I agree: if you have only one tapered end it should face aft for minimum drag.

 

In a similar vein, here's something to think on. A slab ended truck is cruising straight & level at 100kph. Being intellectually challenged, & poor with it, you drive up to his rear end and sit there a couple of metres away, being sucked along in his wake vortex, with your foot backed right off the accelerator.

 

So - what effect, if any, does your presence have on the fuel consumption of the truck you're following?

 

Bruce

 

 

[mnewbery]

In reply to 54, not enough to notice. Ask any dolphin surfing the bow wave of a container ship

 

 

[Geoff13]

I agree: if you have only one tapered end it should face aft for minimum drag.In a similar vein, here's something to think on. A slab ended truck is cruising straight & level at 100kph. Being intellectually challenged, & poor with it, you drive up to his rear end and sit there a couple of metres away, being sucked along in his wake vortex, with your foot backed right off the accelerator.

 

So - what effect, if any, does your presence have on the fuel consumption of the truck you're following?

 

Bruce

 

In reply to 54, not enough to notice. Ask any dolphin surfing the bow wave of a container ship

I agree with Mnewbery in principle, with a car following a truck the drag is almost unnoticeable to the truck,.but provides a distinct advantage to the car.

 

However with a truck following a truck it gives a measurable fuel advantage to the trailing truck and a lesser disadvantage to the leading truck.

 

A third truck in the line gets an advantage with no noticeable change to the other two.

 

If however you have a larger car trailing a smaller car it can make a huge advantage to the trailing car and an equally large advantage to the smaller car.

 

I have trialled all combinations over long distances and if pressed could possibly even come up with some figures.

 

 

[KRviator]

Which begs the question: What advantage does your typical semi driver get by sitting 0.75m from the asre end of the car in front on the F3 at 110kph???

 

 

[spacesailor]

I would have thought both will gain an advantage, due the streamlining of the trucks rear end.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Geoff13]

Which begs the question: What advantage does your typical semi driver get by sitting 0.75m from the asre end of the car in front on the F3 at 110kph???

First might I suggest the car driver calibrates his speedo.

 

But in all seriousness no mechanical advantage and I would hope we one day manage to weed these cowboys out of our industry. I do however despair that this will not be an achievable outcome.

 

As to my first comment of over 1200 trucks tested in Qld during the month of Austrans in April, less than 1% had there speed limiter tampered with.

 

This involves a fine to the driver of up to $1500 and the owner of up to $15,000.

 

Most car speedos in Australia read between 6 and 10 kph slow at 100 kph, this is due to the regulations allowing a 10% inaccuracy in speedos but they are not allowed to read lower than the actual speed.

 

Trucks on the other hand in general have a less than 2% tolerance.

 

 

[KRviator]

First might I suggest the car driver calibrates his speedo.

^^This attitude is one I find pervasive in the trucking industry. "It's never our fault". It doesn't matter what speed the car in front is doing, the following vehicle should not that close. But In the tens of thousands of km I drive every year, I see it on a daily basis. "But I can see over the top of the car in front" is the most-used excuse I have heard..."Trying to give him a hurry-up" is another.

 

I would hope we one day manage to weed these cowboys out of our industry. I do however despair that this will not be an achievable outcome.

I have to agree with you there. The more so when you have muppets in the TWU or the Australian Trucking Association who won't man up and address such issues or others, instead trying to deflect blame from where it rightly belongs following an incident.

[Geoff13]

^^This attitude is one I find pervasive in the trucking industry. "It's never our fault". It doesn't matter what speed the car in front is doing, the following vehicle should not that close. But In the tens of thousands of km I drive every year, I see it on a daily basis. "But I can see over the top of the car in front" is the most-used excuse I have heard..."Trying to give him a hurry-up" is another.I have to agree with you there. The more so when you have muppets in the TWU or the Australian Trucking Association who won't man up and address such issues or others, instead trying to deflect blame from where it rightly belongs following an incident.

My comment about calibrating the speedo was just in response to your saying the car was doing 110kph. In all likelihood if the car was doing 110kph then the truck would be most unlikely to be sitting on his ar$e. Bad truckies can look bad without us resorting to exaggeration. Having said that I agree with you, no matter what speed the car is doing the truck driver still has no right to tailgate or use his truck in a threatening manner.

 

It just that as much as tailgating pisses some people off, over stating the incident to make others look bad pisses me of.

 

As for the TWU and the ATA, the are simply beaurocrats with their noses in the trough like most politicians.

 

They do not represent the average driver and certainly not owner drivers or small companies.

 

Their exorbitant fees are paid by the likes of Toll (Japan Post) etc.

 

 

[Akromaster]

Thread drift, but just today I watched a dump truck tailgate a car for a significant period of time on the freeway then when he turned off, he was on me and when I turned off he was onto another. All this when there are free lanes on either side for him to over take if he so wished. Just dangerous behaviour if you ask me.

 

<Just wanted to voice that coz it's my pet hate..back to regular channel>

 

 

[PA.]

Truck tailgating in this video. If he hadn't he might have been able to reduce or eliminate becoming part of the accident that happened in front of him.

 

 

 

[SDQDI]

Thread drift, but just today I watched a dump truck tailgate a car for a significant period of time on the freeway then when he turned off, he was on me and when I turned off he was onto another. All this when there are free lanes on either side for him to over take if he so wished. Just dangerous behaviour if you ask me.<Just wanted to voice that coz it's my pet hate..back to regular channel>

When you say he had free lanes on either side does that mean it was in a 3 lane section?

 

I am just stirring but one thing that really annoys me is people who don't keep left when there is no one in the left lane within north koreas missile range! Anyway I did think overtaking on the left was a no no (but am too lazy to check the rules so happy to be corrected) which would eliminate the left lane as a legal option (albeit one I have used an awful lot). Also I thought, again with no bulletproof legal quotes, that trucks in a far right lane in some sections of three lane road was also a no no?

 

 

[old man emu]

The rule is that if the speed limit is over 80 Kph on a multi-lane road you must keep left unless overtaking. The no overtaking on left applies to single lane roads, unless the vehicle being overtaking is making a right-hand turn. No overtaking on the left on multi-lane roads is the rule in Europe/Britain where the heavy/slow vehicles obey the rule to travel in the kerbside lane.

 

I love it that no one travels in the left lane of multi-lane roads. Leaves them free for me to fly along, until I come up to a Learner or P-plater who wants to be a smartarze and obey the rules. It is quite legal in Australia to overtake a slower moving vehicle on the left on a multi-lane road.

 

ROAD RULES 2014 - REG 141

 

No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle

 

141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle

 

(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:

 

(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle, or

 

(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle, or

 

© the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

 

ROAD RULES 2014 - REG 130

 

Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road

 

130 Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road

 

(1) This rule applies to a driver driving on a multi-lane road if:

 

(a) the speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres per hour, or

 

(b) a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length of road where the driver is driving.

 

Rule 130 (1) is the most disobeyed rule in the book, including speeding and driving whilst intoxicated - drug or alcohol.

 

OME

 

 

[Cobalt]

Back on topic.

 

 

[Akromaster]

The missus pointed out a missing force...'wifey'.

 

 

[Mick]

The missus pointed out a missing force...'wifey'.

I think that one works in parallel with CASA.

 

 

[Geoff13]

When you say he had free lanes on either side does that mean it was in a 3 lane section?I am just stirring but one thing that really annoys me is people who don't keep left when there is no one in the left lane within north koreas missile range! Anyway I did think overtaking on the left was a no no (but am too lazy to check the rules so happy to be corrected) which would eliminate the left lane as a legal option (albeit one I have used an awful lot). Also I thought, again with no bulletproof legal quotes, that trucks in a far right lane in some sections of three lane road was also a no no?

It is amazing the number of people that do not understand the road rules.

 

As a side comment, in Germany when I lived there in the 80's it was not illegal to overtake in the slow lane or on the right as it was over there, but it was illegal to be overtaken by another vehicle if he had to go into a slow lane to do it.

 

That meant if you were in the fast lane and came up behind a slower vehicle, then a quick flash of the lights would have them scooting over to the slower lane very quickly.

 

If a flash of the lights did not work then you just needed to indicate that you were going to change the slower lane and they moved over pretty quickly.

 

In those days it was policed very heavily and was very effective in keeping traffic to the slow lanes and kept traffic flowing.

 

I have suggested that Qld Transport trial it on the M1 but met with the typical WTF would you know, you are just a dumb truck driver response.

 

 

[IBob]

It is amazing the number of people that do not understand the road rules.As a side comment, in Germany when I lived there in the 80's it was not illegal to overtake in the slow lane or on the right as it was over there, but it was illegal to be overtaken by another vehicle if he had to go into a slow lane to do it.

 

That meant if you were in the fast lane and came up behind a slower vehicle, then a quick flash of the lights would have them scooting over to the slower lane very quickly.

 

If a flash of the lights did not work then you just needed to indicate that you were going to change the slower lane and they moved over pretty quickly.

 

In those days it was policed very heavily and was very effective in keeping traffic to the slow lanes and kept traffic flowing.

 

I have suggested that Qld Transport trial it on the M1 but met with the typical WTF would you know, you are just a dumb truck driver response.

But, rules or no rules, you get plonkers wherever you go: I had a VW Beetle in Germany, 1200cc, which did exactly 72mph flat out. And I'd be in the outside lane, crawling past a row of trucks doing just a little less than that...and there would be some idiot up my tail, rapidly flashing his headlights (this happened so much and so continuously, we wondered if they had a rapid-light-flashing feature) and continuously blowing his horn....as though I could levitate out of his way.

 

Later on, I learnt that part of this was to do with the perceived status of your car: I bought a Mercedes 190SL, and pretty much everything moved over for the big three pointed star. Sadly, the 190 was also the biggest lemon I ever bought...but hey...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

rapidly flashing his headlights and continuously blowing his horn....as though I could levitate out of his way..

We very much have that in China, also car status relative.

 

I just love tapping the brake lights in unison with their headlight flashing! One of us is laughing.

 

There is a big problem with slow fast lane drivers here, so even if you're in the slow lane they, faster cars, will try it out on you. Of course I just slow down to about 2 kmh faster to really pee them off. No, I don't do that in Oz.

 

 

[IBob]

We very much have that in China, also car status relative.I just love tapping the brake lights in unison with their headlight flashing! One of us is laughing.

 

There is a big problem with slow fast lane drivers here, so even if you're in the slow lane they, faster cars, will try it out on you. Of course I just slow down to about 2 kmh faster to really pee them off. No, I don't do that in Oz.

As a young(er) fool in Oz, I did once nip the handbrake on another fool travelling 2ft off my boot:

 

Singularly, unbelievably stupid....as there's no brake lights to show 'em you just suddenly slowed down.....

 

Yet also enormously, hugely gratifying....the noises their tyres make, as they....um...try to avoid climbing into your boot...

 

Disgraceful, I know................(

 

 

[David2ayo]

As a young(er) fool in Oz, I did once nip the handbrake on another fool travelling 2ft off my boot:Singularly, unbelievably stupid....as there's no brake lights to show 'em you just suddenly slowed down.....

Yet also enormously, hugely gratifying....the noises their tyres make, as they....um...try to avoid climbing into your boot...

 

Disgraceful, I know................(

In aviation, tailgating results in experiencing the excitement of wake vortexes, so nobody does it. (?). It is also unwise to tailgate a Range Rover going down Galston Gorge* when you are driving a ford something or other so close the RR driver can't see your bonnet, so the obliging RR driver pulled over into the rough on the only bit where overtaking was possible, and slowly continued waiting to be overtaken ... and waited .... and waited ... the silly bugger couldn't see the road, had followed me into the rough! Anyway, he kept well back after that.

* North side of Sydney. It was twisty, steep, narrow, caravans and trucks were banned, and it isn't much better now.

 

David

 

 

[PA.]

I was being tailgated one night so I just put the left wheels in the gravel on a turn, the ensuing gravel shower they experienced encouraged them to leave a little bit larger gap that the one between his ears.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

* North side of Sydney. It was twisty, steep, narrow, caravans and trucks were banned, and it isn't much better now.

Pacific Hwy I'm guessing

 

I was being tailgated one night so I just put the left wheels in the gravel on a turn, the ensuing gravel shower they experienced encouraged them to leave a little bit larger gap that the one between his ears.

I just pull over now and let them go, saves a lot of frustration.