What would you recommend for my situation? RA-Aus or RPL?

[Damiann]

Hi all,

 

I'm currently a final year university student and an avid aviation fan since childhood. Having completed my final exams, this year is free for me to hopefully learn how to fly a plane and obtain a license for recreational flying.

 

My end goal is to be able to take my family and friends on general flights, for instance Adelaide to Kangaroo Island, as well as to simply fly for fun. I would also work on gaining further training and endorsements after this in order to do so following gaining a basic license.

 

PPL is on my goal list in the long term once I start working next year and accruing funds, so for now I'd like to decide between the RA-Aus and RPL.

 

I have two options to do this, and I'm not sure which would benefit me more in terms of cost, and so I hope you may be able to provide me with some advice on which to take.

 

Currently my options are:

 

1) RA-Aus at Adelaide Soaring Club, learning on the Jabiru J170 at $138/hr + annual student (concession) membership fees of $46, and convert to RPL with further training afterwards

 

OR

 

2) Go straight for RPL training with a flight school and disregard the RA-Aus course completely?

 

Which would you recommend I do in terms of cost and efficiency?

 

Thank you all for your help!

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Come to the Adelaide Soaring Club. You will also have the chance to fly gliders and this should be an added advantage in getting a commercial job.

 

Armstrong was chosen partly because of his gliding and Sullenberger should influence recruiters in my opinion.

 

 

[Damiann]

At the moment, I am leaning towards Adelaide Soaring Club, but the only thing holding me back is whether or not it would be more cost efficient to learn RPL straight off the bat or go with Adelaide Soaring Club and convert to RPL at a later stage.

 

While I do appreciate the advantage in regards to a commercial aviation job, my degree is related to another field, so it's unlikely that I'd end up down that path at the moment.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

My 2C worth (FWIW)

 

Going the RA-Aus way to start would be cheaper to start up with. GA aircraft generally cost more per hour to hire than RAA planes and that is what you'll effectively be doing while training. They also use less fuel per hour than GA planes. Ra-Aus instructors (in my limited experience) generally charge less per hour for training than GA instructors. I think that will get you in the air and able to fly solo and carry pax for less $$$ than going GA.

 

I'm not fully conversant with the RPL side of things so I can't comment on that, but I believe it has similar restrictions as RA-Aus pilot cert WRT flying only in day VFR and things like that. I'm not sure of the pax endo for RPL ie, how many you can carry or if you can even carry pax. RA-Aus is strictly one pax, which most of the time is not a problem.

 

Also, our airplanes are generally lighter than GA, so you're not buying fuel to haul a heavy airframe around the sky. Again, most RA-Aus planes can run on mogas which is cheaper than avgas, and generally the RA-Aus fleet engines are more fuel efficient than the GA aircraft so they burn less fuel, and that fuel costs less per litre which = double win IMO.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

If you need or want to fly in CTA go with a RPL, if not & you want to fly for fun without the added cost of a class 2 medical defiantly RAAus.

 

 

[ian00798]

If you want to be able to carry your family on trips you will need more than 2 seats, which pretty much leaves you stuck with going RPL. And ultimately if you want CTA and CTR etc you might as well just skip the RPL and go straight for PPL, much more flexibility there. If you go to the right schools, ie dual RA/GA they may even do your initial training in an RA aircraft to keep the cost down.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I went the RPL/PPL route, and while I have no regrets, had I known more about RAAus at the time I could have saved a lot of money.

 

I'd suggest going with RAAus initially, then switch to RPL/PPL later if you want or need to.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Guest TopEnd]

I started RA and then converted. Cheaper by far.

 

 

[Kununurra]

I did the RAA first then did my RPL this is by far the cheapest option but there is a lot of variables to consider.

 

How close is either school from where you live, what are the instructors like, do they have a pathway so you can complete the transition easily. Is there availability of aircraft for when you plan to,fly or is the school very busy and restricted in terms of flying hours choices.

 

The pax endorsement and cross country also convert over so that is not a problem.

 

Cheers ✈️

 

 

[ian00798]

For the cross country endorsement to convert over you will have to do 2 hours of instrument flying and also have a total of 5 hours cross country PIC

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

I would go the Rec Aus route as you gain your Navs and passenger endorsements that transfer over. All Rec Aus tests etc BAK, radio etc. transfer across. Your hours transfer across also when you do an RPL.

 

You now fly OCTA with your RPL and can do the extra training to the PPL level to fly into CTA - Controlled Airspace. I think your limited to 1500kg with the RPL and if you want to carry additional passengers you will need the Class 2 medical - not a big deal.

 

To obtain the Part 61 RPL licence currently you are required to apply for an ASIC card to get this first licence - again I think this is the case now when you complete the paperwork.

 

Once you have the Rec Aus licence you can always fly the Rec Aus aircraft as the "Bi Annual flight review" - the BFR in the GA aircraft covers both.

 

The Rec Aus school at Gawler will no doubt map out a clear path for you and explain it better and correct my understanding of it..

 

 

[ian00798]

Pretty accurate there Bernie, just a few corrections on the conversion:

 

- To have your flight radio endorsement carry over you will have to do an English language proficiency test. Not hard to do, but probably cost about another $100 or so.

 

- To convert the Nav endorsement across you will need to meet the RPL experience requirements. This means 5 hours total solo Nav (most RA cross country endorsements only have 2 hours), and also 2 hours instrument flying.

 

- You will have to do a medical for it as well, your choices are either the RAMPC, or a class 2 medical. The RAMPC will limit you to only one passenger, and operations below 10 000ft. If you meet the standard, I personally would just get the class 2.

 

- You don't actually need a PPL to operate in CTA/CTR, these are endorsements that can be added on to your RPL. You are correct that you are limited to 1500kg MTOW, however you can do endorsements such as CSU, retrac etc, as well as aerobatics and a few other flight activity endorsements.

 

As stated above, the GA AFR (aeroplane flight review) will do your RA BFR, but it doesn't work the other way around at the moment.

 

 

[BirdDog]

I will agree with some of the others. I am just about finished by Navs etc on RAA and am loving it. So much, I bought a plane. :) ALSO - if you ever wanted to just go for a plod in an RAA plane instead of a big 4 seater, I think you will need to go to RAA flight school and do some crossover training. But if you start with RAA, the all good. I have a mate that flies an Airbus, and to fly my plane he needs to do 5 hours minimum, and sit a flight test.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[Icarus]

My plan is this:

 

Do RAA and get certificate min 25 hours

 

Then do navigation endorsement , RPL conversion in GA aircraft. at the same time. min 5 hours for RPL nav ...including 2 hours instruments

 

This way you get RAA cert, Nav endorsement, RPL licence, conversion from RAA , instrument time.

 

I believe you need to do 5 hours minimum in GA plane to convert from RAA. I figure might be able to do navs and conversion at the same time

 

 

[ian00798]

No minimum time to convert from RA to GA, you just have to meet the standard for an AFR in a GA aircraft. My recommendation would be when your doing your RA Nav, ask for 5 hours solo Nav, it will tick that box for the conversion. Or get your licence then do enough Nav to get to the 5 hours solo.

 

1 hour of the instrument time can be done in the simulator, that will reduce the cost. Your AFR can include a Nav component, and you can even use it for training for CTA/CTR and do some of the instrument time on it. However I would suggest you won't get to CTA/CTR standard in much less than 10 hours if you haven't been exposed to it before.

 

 

[Icarus]

Ok. Thats even better. Thanks Ian

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Thanks Ian for filling in the blanks and correcting. I had forgotten about the RAMPC medical and it's just a visit to the local Doctor and not a DAME. Although I think doing the Class 2 is a good idea for older guys like me - apart from the cost

 

I had forgotten about doing the English Language Proficiency where I sat and chatted for 10 minutes whilst the paperwork was filled in and paid out the dollars.

 

Damian, it may sound complicated but once your into the process it's straight forward.

 

The CASA paperwork for the transition is a bit involved but I'm sure the guys at Gawler can steer you through - CASA will send you a note if you miss any of the Forms

 

Have fun mate

 

Cheers

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Capt Wally

 

Yes back soon. I'm heading to Lake Como next week from Florence and may take a spin in the float plane there. They run a school also

 

Yes the RV8 has 6 hours at 24/24 and if I pull it back to 19 I have 11 hours. Far exceeds my bladder.

 

Hope to get back soon and get the RV8 up where it likes to be...

 

Again good luck Damian and I'm sure you will take the best path.

 

Let's know if you go to Gawler as it's a good trip for a coffee

 

Bernie

 

 

[Raytol]

You will be a better pilot if you start in gliding no matter what you go on to fly.

 

Gliding hours and GPC go towards hours in other types of aircraft. Do the Flight Radio with GFA.

 

Then go to RAAus.

 

Good luck

 

 

[Damiann]

Thank you all for the replies!

 

Definitely a lot of information to take in, but from what you've all told me, it seems like RA-Aus would be the best approach for me, given the many components and endorsements that will carry over to an RPL for the PPL pathway in the future. The paperwork part still seems a bit muddy, but I'll figure that out as it comes. As long as they carry over, that's all that matters.

 

So, it's looking like I'll end up going to the Adelaide Soaring Club then, which would offer both gliding and RA-Aus training, but I don't live too far from both Gawler Aerodrome and Parafield Airport, so I should be able to converge paths in the future without too much difficulty.

 

Cheers again for your help, and if I do run into anyone at the aerodrome, let me know - I owe you a beer as thanks!

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Damian

 

Good luck.

 

Gawler is on my travel list I will let you know if I'm heading over.

 

Bernie

 

 

[ian00798]

DamianGood luck.

 

Gawler is on my travel list I will let you know if I'm heading over.

 

Bernie

Gawler would be worth a look, but I have to say my preferred destination would have to be wherever Bernie has that RV8 parked, that is one nice well presented looking kite.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

 

 

 

[ian00798]

Beautiful aeroplane there, you would have a blast punching holes in the sky with that.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Thanks

 

Yes looking forward to getting back

 

But I must say I'm keen to do a couple of circuits in the float plane at Lake Como

 

Maybe a short flight over the border into Switzerland