Viking 130hp Honda Engine.

[waraton]

Has anyone had any dealings with this company. Their website says Zenith aircraft are using them. 14k usd and will replace the 3300 on a Jabiru with little modification. I love Honda products and would be interested to know about any

 

Australian experience .

 

 

I copied this picture from the Viking website.

 

 

[Downunder]

Use the search function in the top right......

 

Plenty of info in many threads....

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Whoaa certainly looks the goods.

 

 

[waraton]

Use the search function in the top right......Plenty of info in many threads....

No Australian experiences during the last 12 months and mostly opinions otherwise. I would like to know if they are in the air and how they are performing in our conditions.....please!

 

 

[Bats]

There is/was one flying in a Morgan out of Jacobs Well. I guess until we have reasonable numbers of them flying and piling on the hours, there is an element of trust involved and that's where the opinions come in.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

its still at Heck field Morgan. Jamie M owns it pm if you want his no

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Many numbers sold in the States now and little news, which is a very good thing in today's social media environment.

 

Lots of people still annoyed about the history of the owner though,

 

 

[cooperplace]

history of the owner?????

 

 

[Bats]

Google "Jan Eggenfellner" and hold onto your hat!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Waraton, you know this is a kit that gets bolted up to a USED engine?

 

I have no problem with that at all, thumbs up in fact, just understand it's not a new engine. They have wreckers setting aside any sub 40,000Kms for them.

 

The price seems a lot to me for a kit added to a $1000 engine, but on the other hand, I can't point you to anything better either of the genre.

 

Many were eagerly awaiting Raven's Honda kit, but there was a family sickness and I'm not sure that's done yet, you could email him. Raven has an excellent record.

 

Raven Rotorcraft Redrives: Geo-Suzuki Engine Conversion for Gyroplanes and Ultralights

 

 

[Peter Anson]

I have seen a Viking fitted to a Zenith 601 in Australia. I thought it was somewhat lower power, 110 HP, but I think they have made various changes to the electronic controls so the higher power might be attainable now. The installation looked very neat and the owner was happy with it, but it was fairly new at the time. I also know a few Sonex builders in the US who are fitting them and one of them should be flying within the next couple of weeks. It's not a simple bolt-in installation. For a start the engine is considerably heavier than a Jab 3300 (about 20 kg heavier installed) and you would need to do a lot of work on the cowling and fitting radiator etc. The engines are not actually new, but salvaged low-distance engines, which is OK. The Viking web site claims that the engines have less than 5000 miles although one I know of had closer to 20,000 miles, still sort of OK. I read one account of a builder who was drip-fed the engine parts over a 2 year period, hopefully not the case now. It may be that Eggenfellner has turned a successful corner. If he is wonderful to deal with for the next 10 or 20 years he might eventually wipe the slate clean.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

or have a look at the aeromomentum, built on a suzuki crate engine, they also sell parts to do your own conversion of a used engine

 

Aeromomentum Aircraft Engines, LSA, Experimental, Airboats, Aircraft Gearbox, 1500cc, 117hp

 

 

[Bats]

or have a look at the aeromomentum, built on a suzuki crate engine

I reckon someone is going to get this right sooner than later - Viking may even have done so on a technical level for all I know, it would just take a lot to convince me to do business with them. There is a lot to admire about the new generation of small car engines and there is already some cross over in for example Honda outboards, an application that is not dissimilar to aircraft usage in that the engines are frequently run at 75% plus power for extended periods and they have an excellent reputation for reliability and longevity..

 

 

[waraton]

Hope so Bats, it sounds a bit like a pipe dream doesn't it, affordable, reliable and longevity. I started flying in the mid 80's, almost 40 years later lots has changed and lots not. Why can't we have it all, its 2017 for fsake. Why is it so hard? At least this thread has got a few flyers I spoke to today asking the same questions.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Waraton, your sentiment goes a lot further than just engines.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I saw on the Viking website a week or so ago there was a guy here in OZ who had a 130 about to ship to him here..I will see if I can find it again

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Never heard of aeromomentum...engine looks pretty good

 

 

[Litespeed]

The Aeromomentum Engines are brand new factory built engines not a recycled one- so makes a good price point for all new.

 

All of them look pretty good but I think I would probably either stick to a 2nd jabiru or by a redrive and do the same as above.

 

As a different slant to look at would be this- use a K1200rs motor from BMW bike- 1200 cc 130hp, big flattish torque curve, mega reliable, already injected and a car style/rotax like redrive will bolt straight on.

 

The motor is already on its side and very compact, very easy to work on and a brick reputation.

 

A motor would be from $1000-$2000 for a real good one.

 

I know these are not common due to weight over the twin but when compared to a car motor they can make a lot of sense.

 

OR just do a BMW twin and be happy.

 

Just a thought

 

 

[Litespeed]

Here is the only K BMW motor I could find already done- should make a fast sonex. Note the strange set up used- redrive is at rear of motor and goes over the top of engine. This is not needed but his choice.

 

Here is comment from site

 

SkyoteLog: May 2016

 

Here is Les Kanna's gorgeous BMW K-1200 motorcycle engine powered Onex. The BMW provides 100+hp in a plane which normally flies with 80hp. The bottom cowl has been removed which gives us a peek at the engine

 

This is a real hot rod which flew for the first time this spring. This is way out on the end of the experimental limb of sport aviation. This is the only installation of this engine that we are aware of. It now has over 40 hours and all of the landings have been at the intended destination! So far, so good. Silky smooth! Did I mention fast?

 

[GALLERY=media, 3575]Images by Litespeed posted Oct 2, 2015 at 8:21 PM[/GALLERY][GALLERY=media, 3575]Images by Litespeed posted Oct 2, 2015 at 8:21 PM[/GALLERY]

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Never heard of aeromomentum...engine looks pretty good

Chinese built Suzuki G13 engines. 3 major engine manufacturers here make them still, as well as others.

 

Millions of them here (literal figure), one of the largest produced engines in the world. Your jaw would drop if you saw the piles of them at wrecking yards.

 

Seem to be bulletproof, mostly fitted in taxis and in low geared mini delivery vans or mini tray tops, get the azz thrashed out of them, always overloaded and China's pretty hilly.

 

This is me ..

 

Suzuki G13 weight warning.

 

 

[Bats]

As a different slant to look at would be this- use a K1200rs motor from BMW bike- 1200 cc 130hp, big flattish torque curve, mega reliable, already injected and a car style/rotax like redrive will bolt straight on.The motor is already on its side and very compact, very easy to work on and a brick reputation.

 

A motor would be from $1000-$2000 for a real good one.

 

I know these are not common due to weight over the twin but when compared to a car motor they can make a lot of sense.

 

OR just do a BMW twin and be happy.

I seem to recall an earlier, long running thread on this subject (F-T weren't you involved?) My only involvement with a flying BMW was an older boxer that proved a little problematic, but I have followed various build threads with interest over the years and I have to say, no-one seems to have found it as straight forward or cheap as you make out. Even Europa who were hellbent on finding an alternative to the 912, eventually threw in the towel after investing quite a few pounds and manhours on the project.

 

 

[Litespeed]

I do not know why some have problems esp with the twin.

 

There is nothing actually difficult as long as you wire it correctly- different models have different ecu set ups and some models need a standalone harness, dependant on model some will benefit for ease of conversion with a simple aftermarket ecu add on.

 

Any problems are purely to do with the electronic side- the engines are beautifully made and engineered, they are excellent candidates but some seem to do silly things wiring/install wise.

 

I think peeps just approach them wrong and patch up the system rather than do it right from the start. They get problems and fail to develop for a reliable system.

 

If you can't get a two plug per cylinder twin with quality injection systems running smooth then the problem is not the engine but the install. Even with a complete standalone ecu and back up one- it is not a very big project or expense.

 

The engine is ready to go- just give it the right ecu set up whether original or new- depends on model size and power output.

 

You can have anywhere from 80-130hp and they really sip fuel when run correctly.

 

Just like any conversion the install is where it counts. If you get the mounting,cooling,exhaust and wiring right then success follows.

 

If you expect it to be a out of the box firewall forward install- then you pay for it. I do not know the current market that well, but bet a competitive brand new version could be done and all properly engineered for a Rotax price if not quite lower. All that is needed is a new lower case for the new 125hp twins to save a lot of weight and more aero like. The fundamentals of the engines are fantastic and include balance shafts. They are considerably less complex and more easily maintained/rebuilt than the rotax.

 

Now that would put a cat amongst the pigeons

 

As far as a reused motor, I doubt you could spend more than $8-10k building a excellent fwd if you are smart about it. And 125hp with redrive is a potent machine.

 

Even if you enlist the help of a ECU specialist with dyno- the time and cost should not be huge.

 

And add a tablet and you can have full spectrum real time engine management at your fingertips in flight. Now we are talking a new millennium engine and all the goodies that entails.But with bugger all price.

 

I think a lot of failures have been losing motivation and making mistakes that are really simple in most cases.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The new ICP engine 2 lunger is basically a motorcycle engine the M-09...not released yet but not far away

 

ICP M09 - Wikipedia

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

100hp up to 130hp or even higher I think ..... 6000rpm

 

 

 

[Litespeed]

Any idea on pricing when it comes out?

 

I do like them though been a lover of v twin bikes. As long as it is more Moto Guzzi rather than Ducati, it could be great.

 

I really love the compact installation it makes- just bolt up and connect fuel and electrics. Also what I love about BMW twin conversion done well.