Recreational Aviation Australia, Member Survey!

[Keith Page]

Mick re.#22

 

What I was referring to, Survey done and you spoke up, great to see.

 

Just added a bit more about speaking up.

 

F_T I will have to work very hard to appease you but given time anything is achievable.

 

KP

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I'm quietly confident Keith

 

 

[robinsm]

done and sent. There may be 2 organisations but I dont think EAAA are operational yet are they? Where are their manuals for us to look at? Sorry Keith, at the moment RAA are the only organisation we can use and untill the other comes fully on line, we have to deal with it. Unfortunately, the manuals are in and not a great deal we can do about it, as we have no current point of comparison.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

This survey is window dressing - much like the road show visits they are conducting. They are pushing their (and CASA's) views and don't appear to be listening to what's being said to them.

 

The current hierarchy of RAA have their own agenda and are steadfastly implementing it regardless of rank and file opinions. I have taken the opportunity of filling out the survey but there is no where to expand (save a couple of words) on thoughts of what the board should be pursuing for members. Much like saying 800 votes to change the constitution was an overwhelming vote of confidence in the board. Members organisation my arse!!. Biggest con job ever. I wouldn't trust the two Mikes as far as I could kick them.

 

 

[storchy neil]

where do I start to tell oh that's right fill in a bloody question load off bloody rubbish

 

get to the bottom is that the top do not give two hoots regarding that survey figure this

 

raa failed to do a bloody thing for me when under duty off care being a fully paid up member would not even examine parts when taken to canbera

 

lame L4 appointed by raa sighned out aircraft that was not airworthy because off

 

cracked windscreen

 

bent undercarriage

 

bent legs

 

bent rudder peddles

 

cracked leading edge of wing

 

flap indercator not working

 

motor 912 rotax would not idle under 1800 revs

 

not rigged correctly

 

bent engine frame

 

bent steering rods

 

no service manual no repair manual what so ever was at his repair shop for this aircraft

 

when pointed out that the installation of the power plant was not in accordance with the flight manual

 

not interested in an air craft that would have killed me

 

even letters from a solicitor stiff neil you arnt worth wasting our time on

 

on three separate occasions I have sent paper work to them

 

but its okay for a currant board member to have a fuel tank that has leaked since new and that was reported to raa last I had seen still leaking

 

keith I only pray and hope that your organization don't go down that path

 

bill another stich up by the top I feel neil

 

 

[scre80]

This survey is window dressing - much like the road show visits they are conducting. They are pushing their (and CASA's) views and don't appear to be listening to what's being said to them.The current hierarchy of RAA have their own agenda and are steadfastly implementing it regardless of rank and file opinions. I have taken the opportunity of filling out the survey but there is no where to expand (save a couple of words) on thoughts of what the board should be pursuing for members. Much like saying 800 votes to change the constitution was an overwhelming vote of confidence in the board. Members organisation my ****!!. Biggest con job ever. I wouldn't trust the two Mikes as far as I could kick them.

Can you please go into detail on this? many comments on here have been on a personal nature but not providing any backup evidence or information. I am quite new to RAAus, with no personal bias but would be good to hear any evidence of this.

 

 

[riverduk]

Just as a side question, I noted something about a "competing (opposition) organisation" in one post then someone else mentions EAAA, guessing this is one and the same, so what is it? who is it? and more details please

 

 

[johnprop]

Not EAAA try ELAAA

 

 

[Yenn]

E&LAAA. Experimental and Light Aircraft Aviators of Australia, I think.

 

A company formed to enable people to fly ultralight aircraft, also to educate pilots and maintenance personnel.

 

This company is still talking to CASA to get approval to operate, but as usual CASA is dreadfully slow.

 

I have no up to date info on the company, but if you can get to Emu Park airstrip on 13 May you could no doubt talk to people who are involved also Lee Ungerman of CASA, who may know the status of E&LAAA.

 

The company was formed by a group of ultralight flyers, members of RAAus and one of them at least is a past board member and also a CFI

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Just as a side question, I noted something about a "competing (opposition) organisation" in one post then someone else mentions EAAA, guessing this is one and the same, so what is it? who is it? and more details please

The organisation is ELAAA Pty Ltd. ELAAA = Experimental Light Aircraft Aviators Australia. They have a website www.elaaa.com.au and facebook page ELAAA I have heard people calling it EEE - LAH, like we call RAA = R-AY-OZZ

 

The company is owned by 5 Directors (Rick-P and Keith Page post on Rec Fly). You can read their profiles on the website. They hoped to get approval to administer ultralights in a similar vein to RAA (but as a profit making company, with clients), are seeking to also administer GA and non commercial helicopters, but not some lighter ultralights. They hoped to get approval in October last year, but, I understand, have since asked for a higher weight & helicopters, and proposed start dates have been and gone. They are talking May 2017 now.

 

ELAAA Pty Ltd, are promising to be an alternative to RAA. Unfortunately, they have not been able to outline much of what they will offer eg, will they recognise RAA qualifications & aircraft approvals?, how will they provide their face-to-face training outside North Qld? Can you use a RAA L2 for maintenance, or only someone approved by them? Pilot insurance? I see they have their fee structure published now. Have to wait for next month for answers, if approved.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I did the RAA survey. Unfortunately it wouldn't allow Mr FV to do his on our laptop, because it will only allow one response. Will be finding an alternative so he can have his say, which is different to mine in some respects. At least RAA is consulting members. I found rating 1 to 8 What is Important ... the hardest one.

 

 

[scre80]

I did the RAA survey. Unfortunately it wouldn't allow Mr FV to do his on our laptop, because it will only allow one response. Will be finding an alternative so he can have his say, which is different to mine in some respects. At least RAA is consulting members. I found rating 1 to 8 What is Important ... the hardest one.

Agree with the rating being difficult!! Took me a few goes.

 

 

[riverduk]

Thanks to all who answered my question regarding ELAAA, had a look at their website, will be interesting to see how this will go forward but by the looks of their web site, weight shift is not on their radar so not of any use to me, cheers

 

 

[ave8rr]

Thanks to all who answered my question regarding ELAAA, had a look at their website, will be interesting to see how this will go forward but by the looks of their web site, weight shift is not on their radar so not of any use to me, cheers

I think Keith Page said somewhere on this site that they weren't looking at weight shift as there are already two bodies looking after this type. RAAus & HGFA.

 

 

[Downunder]

I found rating 1 to 8 What is Important ... the hardest one.

Yes, they probably could of added a few more subjects in that list.

 

No mention of "costs" if I remember it correctly.

 

 

[Keith Page]

As I've warned before Keith. You are now a part of a competing (opposition)organisation and now no matter what you say along the lines of the way you are posting , It should be seen in that light. Like " You WOULD say that wouldn't you?On another tack.

Why not canvass ex or disaffected members? I sensible move I would have thought. Nev

Mick I am aware of all what you are saying. However as I am a member of RAAus I am entitle to express my view.

What other activities I am involved with will not prevent me from expressing a view and pointing out the flaws and arrangements of structures, some people take this advice on board however other interpret it as negative posting as you have suggested.

 

As I do not broadcast all my activities I will hasten to advise you we are currently addressing the points you made above, thank you for suggesting what we should do.

 

KP

 

 

[facthunter]

Keith. My name is not Mick, and I'm NOT suggesting you have no right to speak up, merely that when you decided to be part of a competing organisation your position changed to one with a vested interest in promoting YOUR show. You lost the "impartial" (if you ever were) claim. I have more right to criticise the RAAus than you do, because you have compromised yours as YOU NOW have a vested interest. Can't you see that? I TRY to be even handed in this matter. RAAus is all we have at the moment, and just for the record I'm not against the show you are part of but it will have to sell itself and defend/justify certain actions as well. IF directors of RAAus wrote disparaging things about your show, I would regard them in the same light as I regard yours. I also feel you should declare your interest any time you comment adversely about the running of the RAAus, so people can know where you are coming from and that you are open about that. I frequently mention my membership of other Air related organisations, where it' may be appropriate.. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

come on you two with great respect I love you both neil

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Agree with you Nev. It seems a case of "the pot calling the kettle black". Criticising RAA for not sending their Tech & Ops Manual updates to all 10,000 members for comment, when ELAAA P/L have not done the same, criticising or forecasting RAA fee increases, when the ELAAA site says theirs will go up by 3% or CPI annually; and many other issues.

 

The more I hear from this one director of ELAAA the less confidence I have in that organisation. I was seriously considering them, now I am not sure I want to take the plunge and change our aircrafts' registrations. I just hope they can improve their communications and provide some real facts soon.

 

I am glad RAA gave me the opportunity to express my opinion and add to their statistics. We'll hear in due course what the outcome was and what they intend to do in response. Those who know me, and follow my posts, will realise I keep up to date with RAA and seek to keep them "honest" with reporting etc. I have certainly seen an increase in responsiveness, transparency and communication since the dark days of the CASA audits and CASA refusing them permission to register aircraft. Things will never be perfect (as we all have different ideas of "perfect"), and the majority of members will continue to ignore the internal machinations, so long as they can "just go flying".

 

 

[facthunter]

Thanks Neil. Mate. I'm not abusing anyone here, take notice. It's only pointing out a credibility issue. I hope we are all above petty loyalties, and can legitimately and openly call it as we see it, with out fear or favour.. We expect proper process from ALL involved and ALL should be prepared to explain their actions if so called upon to do so with legitimate reason. Give credit where it's due and boo's when it's not.. Sure, not everybody get's off their bum and does things and that's fine if you are prepared to just accept any likely outcome.

 

This "situation " is a propos of a questionnaire sent to members and others and again if you don't want to be bothered or just can it, don't whinge if it doesn't happen again. The RAAus IS a members organisation with a structure that governs it's behaviour to an extent. It's the only thing we have anything like it. CASA hasn't done it too many favours . Am I happy with everything it (RAAus) does? NO. Nev

 

 

[VoodooForce]

I did the RAA survey. Unfortunately it wouldn't allow Mr FV to do his on our laptop, because it will only allow one response. Will be finding an alternative so he can have his say, which is different to mine in some respects. At least RAA is consulting members. I found rating 1 to 8 What is Important ... the hardest one.

I may be misreading this but if you mean you can only do the survey once on a particular machine you may just have to clear the cookies out of your browser. This is how many sites 'enforce' single use.

 

 

[Ron5335]

I'm always a bit skeptical about an organisation carrying out a survey into itself.

 

I reminds me of the Sir Joh era, when the results were in before the survey went out.

 

 

[Downunder]

I'm always a bit skeptical about an organisation carrying out a survey into itself.I reminds me of the Sir Joh era, when the results were in before the survey went out.

I worked for a large multi-national. The HR dept would contract out a survey every year..... This showed we were happy little Vegemites.........DESPITE 50% annual personnel turnover in my location!!!.....

 

Funny how the same contract company got the survey every year.......

 

 

[Keith Page]

Hello Sue,

 

How up front is saying what the fee increases will be, as you are of the accounting ilk the inflation factor must be added in annually if not the business goes backwards.

 

For the Tech and Opp manuals they are in being assessed as we type away. I believe it is not prudent business to have information out during the formulation stage. Sue you may have another view regarding that strategy.

 

We are not operating hence no need for the Tech and Opp to be out. Our structure is not member based so the why do we need to share our planning to all and sundry out in the free market world?

 

KP.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Hello Sue,

 

The post #44 was a bit caustic.

 

However I hasten to advise you that this is a free world and you do not have to join up with ELAAA your choice.

 

You can stay at RAAus your choice.

 

You know it is a free world and I am a member of RAAus and I am entitled to make comment on the RAAus direction, obvious the comments must be not in your liking. I could moan about the comments you levelled at me however I will just step aside and let it go through to the keeper.

 

I can not see what all this noise and fuss is about.

 

KP.