Question! – For those who have had a in-flight total engine failure/s

[facthunter]

The camshaft problem is related to sitting around and corroding (condensation). Cars have had camshaft problems too but pretty much eliminated by using big rollers. You have costly belts to replace. Car engines run loafing most of the time and can be quite "sick" and still make it for years. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

My first was in a Thruster, The old 503 broke a crank shaft and the thing just kept going on one cylinder making all sorts of noises but it kept running for another 30 minutes and I made it back to the airport, landed and taxied back to the hanger.My second was in a powered parachute at 100 ft after take off, I just turned around and landed back at my take off point. ( PPCs are the best for fun and safety ).

Powered Parachuting ? ? I tried that a few times mate,. . . I just found that the undercarriage was a bit unreliable. . . .

 

 

[nashy]

Powered Parachuting ? ? I tried that a few times mate,. . . I just found that the undercarriage was a bit unreliable. . . .

You might be confusing powered paragliding with powered parachuting, A powered parachute has a tricycle undercarriage with suspension.

 

 

[nashy]

The camshaft problem is related to sitting around and corroding (condensation). Cars have had camshaft problems too but pretty much eliminated by using big rollers. You have costly belts to replace. Car engines run loafing most of the time and can be quite "sick" and still make it for years. Nev

Crankshaft !!!!!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

You might be confusing powered paragliding with powered parachuting, A powered parachute has a tricycle undercarriage with suspension.

I is jus' bein' silly mate !. . . I had the use of a Powerchute Raider for a while, Interesting to fly, me being a 3-axis GA / Flexwinger. . .

 

We did have an SAS bloke who bought one and seriously injured himself at our airfield. He'd got mega parachute experience,. . . but it isn't really the same and he didn't bother with any type of briefing on the machine and took off in a very strong gusty wind. He managed to collapse the canopy at around 50 - 60 feet up, on a third landing attempt.

 

Incidentally, before anyone picks me up on this, NO serving SAS soldier will EVER tell you that he is. If one does,. then it's more than likely BS. But my old mate 'Low Level Neville' a retired member of that club, and one of the genuine originators of the 'HALO' parachute jump method,. . . let it slip about the Powerchute accident a few months later, whilst a bunch of us 'Otherton Raiders' were getting smashed on 7.5% beer a French pub. . .( Lovely bar in Amiens, with a real DH82A hanging from the ceiling. . .)

 

It's quite easy to crash a flying machine of any type,. . . when a little knowledge might well have saved the day.

 

Anyway,. . .I digress. . . ( Odd,. . . I never do that normally. . . )

 

 

[IBob]

C'mon, Phil....HALO means high altitude low opening....it's not a 'method', it just means a bit of freefall in between...which is what sport jumpers have been doing forever. The reality is that the military never have been and never will be in the forefront of parachuting, becuse they're only exposed to very narrow controlled forms of it.

 

At Beaudesert in the '70s we hosted a bunch of Seals off a US Navy boat. And they were hangin' out to be involved in some real skydiving. They repaid us with an evening of tuition in tequila drinking...but that's another very messy story....

 

 

[facthunter]

Nashy my reference is not to your 503 failure. It's to several specific comment's relating to camshafts prior to yours. They were coming in thick and fast at that time.(as often happens). Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

My last one was in a Jab engined Corby Starlet, At an Old Station fly in. Bitterly cold, early morning and the revs were set too low. When I pulled the power at the end of downwind the engine just stopped...

...if that's an engine failure then I've had mobs of them. Touching down a taildragger without power to keep her in line is a pain, and restarting requires me to swap hands, cycle the key back to off before cranking the engine.

 

Setting the throttle stop to idle is not easy; only a fraction of a turn separates engine stop on late final and floating down the strip. Eventually, on the commendation of our Rec Flying colleague Ignition, I reset the idle mixture screw. It now idles smoothly at 850. (Someone reported that EFI allows a J2.2 to idle down to 350.)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

C'mon, Phil....HALO means high altitude low opening....it's not a 'method', it just means a bit of freefall in between...which is what sport jumpers have been doing forever. The reality is that the military never have been and never will be in the forefront of parachuting, becuse they're only exposed to very narrow controlled forms of it.At Beaudesert in the '70s we hosted a bunch of Seals off a US Navy boat. And they were hangin' out to be involved in some real skydiving. They repaid us with an evening of tuition in tequila drinking...but that's another very messy story....

OH COME ON BOB. . . .( LOL )

 

Definition of method

 

1. 1 : a procedure or process for attaining an object: such asa (1) : a systematic procedure, technique, or mode of inquiry employed by or proper to a particular discipline or art (2) : a systematic plan followed in presenting material for instruction the lecture methodb (1) : a way, technique, or process of or for doing something often slow in their business methods — T. R. Ybarra (2) : a body of skills or techniques in the art of the novel, heavily armed with method — J. D. Scott
    
    
    
    
   
2. 2 : a discipline that deals with the principles and techniques of scientific inquiry
    
    
    
    
   
3. 3a : orderly arrangement, development, or classification : plan The book is completely lacking in method.b : the habitual practice of orderliness and regularity time enough to do everything if only you used method — Angela Thirkell
    
    
    
    
   
4. 4 capitalized : a dramatic technique by which an actor seeks to gain complete identification with the inner personality of the character being portrayed
    
    
   

 

 

Low Level Neville,. . .a lovely friend now sadly deceased, was one of the bloody nutcases who pioneered the HALO jump ( and YES, I know what it stands for. . . :-) ) for the SAS. I have no doubt that other special services developed a similar routine, which is far preferable to beng a bloody sitting duck for groundfire as you are totally helpless and vulnerable during your descent.

 

When I first met NEV, he was already 63 years old, and this was back in 1993. . . Both of his sons were members of the regiment, and saw action in several areas. His Parachuting experience in the regiment occurred around the 1960s and early 1970s. . . where these practices were develped and used in both day and night deployments.

 

I am glad that you met some seals, . .I don't know any of those personally. MY own parachuting experience is limited to around 280 jumps from various aerial appliances, mostly carried out at the Para club located around 25 miles from where I reside now,. . .ie, Tilstock Airfield, ( EX- RAF Prees Higher Heath ) near Whitchurch in Shropshire. . . we did a bit of HALO, but I found this a little bit TOO exciting , and the pilots didn't like flying that high anyway, as it cost too much avgas. . . .

 

I got utterly ratted on Tequila once. . . .never again. . . .( I didn't swallow the worm though. . .)

 

Gentle regards. . .

 

Phat Phil. . .

 

 

[M61A1]

First One...

 

On short final, in a 95:10, reduced power to idle and engine stopped completely (turned out be a coil slowly melting internally) at around 100-150'.

 

Then realised that without that extra thrust my glide angle had deteriorated somewhat and I was not likely to clear the two rows of trees in front of the strip.

 

Initial reaction: along the lines of "aww sh1t, now I'm going to have to walk back".

 

I would guess that my glide time was less than 30 seconds, but I had to slip some height off while turning 90 degrees to the left in order to pull up before the fence, and land as slow as possible to reduce likelihood of wheels digging into soft soil.

 

The stubble paddock below me was always going to be my option.

 

All went as planned, aircraft undamaged except for the ignition coil.

 

I think engine failure training should include low level and be continued down to the point of holding off, to ensure that operators are comfortable manouvreing close to the ground and obstacles.

 

Second one...

 

In my Drifter with partner on board. On climbout after 2 dummy approaches at a local strip, first one normal, into wind, turned 180 and made a downwind approach. At about 300' the engine just wound down completely. Glide time 30 -40 seconds.

 

Initial response, "bugger, this is even further to walk". I had already veered to the left of centreline to be over good terrain, but to improve chances I turned 180 into wind which also lined up with the furrows. I tried a brief restart through the turn with low expectations and wasn't surprised by rotax noises.

 

Landed normally with a short rollout and my other half asking "why have we stopped here?"

 

I don't know what I could have done differently, as it all seemed to go as planned ( aside from the engine stopping), which really annoyed me when the investigating person kept asking "what would I do differently to prevent this occurring again?" Realistically, all I could do would be to stay home and watch telly instead.

 

As far as I can tell, the engine stoppage was not really immediately foreseeable, as all the appropriate refuelling procedures were followed. ( water in fuel).

 

These events were so ordinary that it wasn't worth cracking a drink.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

These events were so ordinary that it wasn't worth cracking a drink.

 

Oh Mate !. . .even teetotallers like me crack a drink occasionally. . . doesn't have to be a 'reason' . . .

 

 

[M61A1]

OH COME ON BOB. . . .( LOL ) Definition of method

 

1. 1 : a procedure or process for attaining an object: such asa (1) : a systematic procedure, technique, or mode of inquiry employed by or proper to a particular discipline or art (2) : a systematic plan followed in presenting material for instruction the lecture methodb (1) : a way, technique, or process of or for doing something often slow in their business methods — T. R. Ybarra (2) : a body of skills or techniques in the art of the novel, heavily armed with method — J. D. Scott
    
    
    
    
   
2. 2 : a discipline that deals with the principles and techniques of scientific inquiry
    
    
    
    
   
3. 3a : orderly arrangement, development, or classification : plan The book is completely lacking in method.b : the habitual practice of orderliness and regularity time enough to do everything if only you used method — Angela Thirkell
    
    
    
    
   
4. 4 capitalized : a dramatic technique by which an actor seeks to gain complete identification with the inner personality of the character being portrayed
    
    
   

 

 

Low Level Neville,. . .a lovely friend now sadly deceased, was one of the bloody nutcases who pioneered the HALO jump ( and YES, I know what it stands for. . . :-) ) for the SAS. I have no doubt that other special services developed a similar routine, which is far preferable to beng a bloody sitting duck for groundfire as you are totally helpless and vulnerable during your descent.

 

When I first met NEV, he was already 63 years old, and this was back in 1993. . . Both of his sons were members of the regiment, and saw action in several areas. His Parachuting experience in the regiment occurred around the 1960s and early 1970s. . . where these practices were develped and used in both day and night deployments.

 

I am glad that you met some seals, . .I don't know any of those personally. MY own parachuting experience is limited to around 280 jumps from various aerial appliances, mostly carried out at the Para club located around 25 miles from where I reside now,. . .ie, Tilstock Airfield, ( EX- RAF Prees Higher Heath ) near Whitchurch in Shropshire. . . we did a bit of HALO, but I found this a little bit TOO exciting , and the pilots didn't like flying that high anyway, as it cost too much avgas. . . .

 

I got utterly ratted on Tequila once. . . .never again. . . .( I didn't swallow the worm though. . .)

 

Gentle regards. . .

 

Phat Phil. . .

 

C'mon, Phil....HALO means high altitude low opening....it's not a 'method', it just means a bit of freefall in between...which is what sport jumpers have been doing forever. The reality is that the military never have been and never will be in the forefront of parachuting, becuse they're only exposed to very narrow controlled forms of it.At Beaudesert in the '70s we hosted a bunch of Seals off a US Navy boat. And they were hangin' out to be involved in some real skydiving. They repaid us with an evening of tuition in tequila drinking...but that's another very messy story....

Yeah, don't take any of the yank stuff too seriously iBob.....I have been told that the "average" Aussie soldier (and I've been around a few of those that would struggle to walk and breath at the same time) is about as proficient as one of the "highly trained" US Rangers. Having spent a bit of time around the US military as well, I find that entirely feasible. Probably not a good comparison between British SAS and Seals.

 

 

[IBob]

Yeah, don't take any of the yank stuff too seriously iBob.....I have been told that the "average" Aussie soldier (and I've been around a few of those that would struggle to walk and breath at the same time) is about as proficient as one of the "highly trained" US Rangers. Having spent a bit of time around the US military as well, I find that entirely feasible. Probably not a good comparison between British SAS and Seals.

I didn't set out to compare or knock Seals, SAS or anybody's airborn.

My point was that, while no doubt these units have their skills and their disciplines, civilian jumping is typically well ahead of what they do in terms of parachuting. With the obvious exception of making incredibly high jumps (which any civilian would also put their hands up for if the taxpayer would pay for him too), and jumping with large loads attached.

 

And all HALO means is 'how about we jump out high so they don't much notice us, but open low so they don't much see us coming'. Which civilians have been doing for the pleasure of it ever since the ripcord was invented...

 

 

[M61A1]

I didn't set out to compare or knock Seals, SAS or anybody's airborn.My point was that, while no doubt these units have their skills and their disciplines, civilian jumping is typically well ahead of what they do in terms of parachuting. With the obvious exception of making incredibly high jumps (which any civilian would also put their hands up for if the taxpayer would pay for him too), and jumping with large loads attached.

And all HALO means is 'how about we jump out high so they don't much notice us, but open low so they don't much see us coming'. Which civilians have been doing for the pleasure of it ever since the ripcord was invented...

I get what you mean, I was just suggesting that comparitively, the Seals standards may not be as high as some think. Yes, I think you are correct in thinking that there are many things that civilians do better than military. HALO is just another way to get to the fight.