ok is your life

[storchy neil]

In my opinion

 

I have been personally attacked for stating my beliefs on some subjects

 

You cash in any vehicle alone what are the chances that you survive ?

 

The moment I hear that an air craft has gone missing I feel pain concern as is that person in need of assistance what can I do

 

Now for the price of a slab off beer a month you can have a bloody gadget that can track you to with in 2 to 10 metres at all times live

 

So I stand by you are brain dead idiots that go flying or bush walking or desert driving that do not take precautions

 

So if you believe that you don't need to have a tracking device I ain't going to look for you

 

I have lived a very sheltered life just been lucky at what I have done like skydiving chased gray goast down Hume carted explosives all over Aust operated tower cranes army 2 years nam scrapers dozers excavators graders coach driving worked on power line walerang mudgee seen Aust all over from the cab of a truck

 

Have I seen people smashed up in the wreckage yes I have so read and get your brain to recognise that some of us are not going to be bloody politically correct

 

They can't stand they truth I have used before stupidity or oh I forgot or harry did it or bill is not goin to register his plane but fly it any way has a flow on affect that impacts on all.

 

Even a suggestion that so and so bought a plane that will do illegal activities should be a warning it may not end well egotistical behaviour will bring a lot undone.

 

So if you want to can me go ahead Neil

 

 

[octave]

In my opinionI have been personally attacked for stating my beliefs on some subjects

You cash in any vehicle alone what are the chances that you survive ?

 

The moment I hear that an air craft has gone missing I feel pain concern as is that person in need of assistance what can I do

 

Now for the price of a slab off beer a month you can have a bloody gadget that can track you to with in 2 to 10 metres at all times live

 

So I stand by you are brain dead idiots that go flying or bush walking or desert driving that do not take precautions

 

So if you believe that you don't need to have a tracking device I ain't going to look for you

 

I have lived a very sheltered life just been lucky at what I have done like skydiving chased gray goast down Hume carted explosives all over Aust operated tower cranes army 2 years nam scrapers dozers excavators graders coach driving worked on power line walerang mudgee seen Aust all over from the cab of a truck

 

Have I seen people smashed up in the wreckage yes I have so read and get your brain to recognise that some of us are not going to be bloody politically correct

 

They can't stand they truth I have used before stupidity or oh I forgot or harry did it or bill is not goin to register his plane but fly it any way has a flow on affect that impacts on all.

 

Even a suggestion that so and so bought a plane that will do illegal activities should be a warning it may not end well egotistical behaviour will bring a lot undone.

 

So if you want to can me go ahead Neil

Neil, I would suggest that most people on this forum would agree that carrying a PLB whether or not it is mandatory is extremely important. What I found offensive is that you seemed to be asserting that he definitely did not have one. My assumption is that you have evidence or inside knowledge. Although it may or may not be true that he did not have a PLB I just wonder how you could be so sure? I think anyone that had a go at you on this forum did so not because they disagree with carrying a PLB or flying within the regs but that you appeared to be calling a fellow pilot who at the time was still missing "brain dead" this to me seems to be in poor taste.

 

I have no doubt that you motive is good but perhaps it would be better to start a new thread on this subject rather than labelling your fellow pilots as "brain dead".

 

Pilot error is still the major cause of aviation accidents, people make mistakes, we need to know how and why people make mistakes. Simply labelling pilots who make mistakes or make poor decisions as being idiots does nothing to improve safety.

 

Whenever I read about a fatality I do tend to try to come up with an argument about why this could not happen to me. I might say to myself "I don't fly that type of plane" so it could not happen to me or "I wouldn't fly in those conditions" or "I would not make those poor decisions like those other idiots" however these are tactics just to make me feel less at risk. Learning from the mistakes of others is the most important factor for my continued safety. I do not see it necessary to name call or bag another pilot (especially before the outcome is known). If a pilot comes to has an accident due to flying in unsuitable weather or perhaps flies into wires I am more interested in knowing why they made the decisions they made not name calling.

 

We all deal with these tragedies differently, some people deal with it with anger but I feel that to do this even before the pilot has been found is rather insensitive

 

In my flying I try my best to fly safely, of course I do make mistakes from time to time from which I learn valuable lessons. If I should have an accident I am more than happy for it to be discussed so that other pilots can learn something from it. All I would ask is that any such discussion be conducted intelligently and respectfully (not just declaring me an idiot) and most importantly it should be based on accurate information and not rumour.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't agree with going trail riding on a motorbike ALONE for the same reason. You could be just off the track and invisible, dying because of some slight injury that stops you getting out of there, or just the heat without water in an outback situation. Today there's technology cheap compared with the cost of a search readily available or leave a "where I'm going in the plane" NOTE with the date on the club noticeboard. I make this as a general comment not directly automatically applying to our departed fellow pilot but certainly as an aside to consider at least in the discussion of this matter to revist a situation that could potentially apply to any of us I l know I've done it myself in the past.. Nev

 

 

[red750]

I think Neil tried to explain in the previous thread that his comment was not directed at the unfortunate pilot in this incident, but to pilots in general who do not make use of available safety technology. The problem is that Neil does not use punctuation - commas, full stops, capitals - to separate his thoughts, so one thing runs into the next, making for misinterpretation. No one knows when he is changing thought.

 

 

[Nightmare]

I always assume everyone is a very well trained pilot on here. We have passed the necessary exams and underwent the many required training hours under instructors who are very competent at what they are teaching, to attain our pilot certificate or license. As we all know, that is no easy feat. From that bench mark I respect my fellow pilots and their competence. My opinion of them goes up or down from that point, depending on what they do.

 

It is my belief that a "brain dead" person, or person not considering safety, could not pass their certificate or license, as the adherence to safe flying practices, aka, good airmanship, is very much part of the curriculum of the competency based training that we did. You'd have to achieve that after you gain your qualification and experience, and I believe you would have to work damn hard to get to "brain dead" after such an achievement, considering how much safety, and good airmanship, is drummed into us during our training.

 

Also reinforced by the fact that one little mistake or omission may result in our demise, makes me more inclined to practice good airmanship and not to forget our safe flying practices, that I have learned. These lessons were often learned from the blood of aviators who have gone before us.

 

Tony

 

 

[gareth lacey]

He needs to brush up on his grammar and use of full stops, commas etc, its a pain to read his rants , I try not to read them they are so bad , my 10 granddaughter can do better

 

 

[jetboy]

Neil's not talking about PLBs but something that tracks you in real time which is probably more useful.

 

But the question is which device? Cellphone based tracking / reporting has limitations

 

Spidertracks is used by many commercial ops here since the Erceg crash and collaboration by the family and CAA

 

Recreational solution my pick would be Spot gen3 tracker

 

 

[red750]

such things aren't that important in today's fast moving society where even some media personal as well as some high profile people speak appallingly!

I disagree. In this day and age gangs of masked and hooded youths stage smash and grab raids on jewellery stores almost daily. Does that make it OK? The deterioration of the use of the English language stems from the declining standards of teachers, many of whom cannot put a decent sentence together, and they are charged with educating our kids. If you keep reducing standards, soon there will be no standards.

 

 

[M61A1]

Neil's not talking about PLBs but something that tracks you in real time which is probably more useful.But the question is which device? Cellphone based tracking / reporting has limitations

Spidertracks is used by many commercial ops here since the Erceg crash and collaboration by the family and CAA

 

Recreational solution my pick would be Spot gen3 tracker

Such devices are readily available, I suggest that if he really want's to use one, he could just wear it 24/7 so that anyone knows exactly where he is at any time, but, if he wants to make it mandatory for everyone, he's going to have a fight on his hands.

 

 

[red750]

we are each entitled to our opinion, I disagree with yrs:-)

 

We'll agree to disagree.

 

 

[Kununurra]

I have read all of the posts on this subject of the missing aircraft from Murwillimbah (now found) and each persons own view or judgement on what happened,including remarks of what safety equipment was in the aircraft or presumed to be in the aircraft or should have been in the aircraft.

 

The best outcome from these forums is to learning from others experiences good or otherwise.

 

Casting aspersions gets us nowhere at all and certainly does not offer any learning moments for any of us as facts are what we need to make informed decisions. Whilst we may or may not agree with all of the posts on here we should still learn even from the negative ones, that is don't reply to them to give them any credit or create any interest in the individual post.

 

We should all strive to aviate safely at all times and carry safety equipment so that we can use it if required, the fact remains that even if a PLB, or ELT was carried the outcome would have been the same. There is no doubt the aircraft could have been found sooner that goes without saying but there would be no change to the end result.

 

I hope that the family of the person involved in this tragic incident does not have access to this forum to see what has been said about the incident R.I.P

 

✈️ Cheers

 

 

[Nobody]

Whilst I agree it's rather obvious that the composition of this persons posts are lacking in proper execution it bothers me none as such things aren't that important in today's fast moving society where even some media personal as well as some high profile people speak appallingly! Proper grammar etc is over rated!:-)

Punctuation isn't important when the message is understood. The problem comes when the lack of punctuation means that messages are misinterpreted. There is a reason that propper radio procedures are followed in the air, to prevent missunderstandings. The same applies to written communication.

 

Neil's original posts (since edited by the mods) were pretty poor form. He implied that a pilot was "brain dead" for not having a PLB, in a thread about a missing aircraft ( and pilot). At the time not even the the most basic details of the situation had been confirmed.

 

It's good that Neil is passionate about safety. It would be good if he could be a little bit less obnoxious about where and what he says.

 

 

[Nobody]

That's true but there will always be a fine line between personal opinion & offensive.There in lies the dilemma, to some such comments maybe offense but to others it's being direct, truthful in their own way.

And yet here is a thread that was started by Neil who is offended....

 

 

[derekliston]

I am always interested in the opinions of others, I also try to be as safe as possible, PLB, two radios, transponder, but there are times when none of the above would be helpful as in for instance a wing detaching as an early eye witness report stated. Does anyone yet know whether that was accurate or if the wreckage was intact when discovered. We all feel for the pilot's family but I must say that personally, whilst I strive to stay alive I would elect for a couple of minutes of sheer terror and lights out over six months or more languishing with some horrible cancer.

 

 

[SDQDI]

I too have read all the posts etc but unless there is some level of personal attack on someone then no one has the right to play 'thread police' & tell others what or not what to do/say.

The trouble was that Neil's post seemed to be a direct personal attack to the pilot, he later made it obvious it wasn't meant to be that way and was soon fixed by the mods but I think he was rightly pulled up for it. I also think we are all grown up about it to move on and forgive him though.

 

We should be mindful though of just how easy it is for relatives of missing/deceased people to find threads and I do believe we should think about that before we post.

 

my 10 granddaughter can do better

But how old are your 10 granddaughters? Without that info your argument has no weight to it.

 

 

[derekliston]

Agree but we don't always get a choice now do we?:-)

Very true, but what I am saying is don't cry for me too much should the worst ever happen!

 

 

[derekliston]

Ok we won't, we'll have a beer or three & celebrate a life lived up above the clouds:cheers:

Way to go!!!

 

 

[facthunter]

The discussion that comes with events like this can be helpful to others who fly. The subject gets opened up and has a life of it's own on the forum. Whilst any judgement of the pilot's actions should be after the investigation, we should not be silent on factors involved with the situation. I don't want these gadgets compulsory but the cost of searches can be recovered if recommended procedures are not carried out, and very substantial costs are incurred. We have some good options due to the technology available. It can save your life and avoid endangering other's lives and incurring large costs and anxieties.

 

Pilots tend to condemn other pilots on the basis of "I wouldn't do anything wrong myself". or only other pilots make mistakes etc. The system also does that well enough as the poorly formed concept "pilot error" is generally rapidly listed as the CAUSE, prematurely, and often incorrectly .

 

Pilots should not judge others until al the facts are available and examined and sometimes you will never get a satisfactory cause established due lack of evidence because of money not spent due priorities policies. Ie Aerobatic planes with one occupant often not investigated as often the smallest errors of judgement will cause a bad outcome. IF the pilot was breaking rules at the time. Ie not current for low level , flying over a crowd etc it might be a different matter. We don't really want to be over investigated either but we ALL have this natural curiosity to know what happened and for the best of reasons sometimes. You don't want it to happen to you. Nev

 

 

[Admin]

I have known Neil for a great many years and the great thing about recreational flying is that it gives the chance to experience and enjoy the great thrills of flying to anyone no matter what their background is, their educational level and to some extent what handicaps they may have had to endure through their life. However, what recreational flying doesn't do is to teach us to be more understanding of those that may not be at any socio eco level that one individual may be to another. But the greatest thing about recreational aviation is that we ALL, finally and above all else, have one thing in common...the love of flying.

 

My daughter suffers developmental verbal dyspraxia which means her brain can compose sentences, insert punctuation etc but at times, especially when she is tired or anxious, what comes out of her mouth in conversation is nothing like what was in her head (a type of word salad but no where near as bad). Both her and I know first hand how cruel people are by only judging what they see without knowing the facts. Caitlin may not at times be able to hold a conversation properly with the correct words, pronounciation, punctuation etc but yesterday came home from her Tertiary Enabling Program after receiving 98.65% in her Maths exam.

 

Neil, and those that have met Neil face to face will know, he is the first person that will come to your aid no matter what, he has been taken for a ride by others in this industry which has hurt him considerably, and it sickens me to see others with the same passion as Neil's, i.e. flying, being so judgemental without knowing the facts...without knowing Neil face to face

 

 

[Right Rudder]

I have known Neil for a great many years and the great thing about recreational flying is that it gives the chance to experience and enjoy the great thrills of flying to anyone no matter what their background is, their educational level and to some extent what handicaps they may have had to endure through their life. However, what recreational flying doesn't do is to teach us to be more understanding of those that may not be at any socio eco level that one individual may be to another. But the greatest thing about recreational aviation is that we ALL, finally and above all else, have one thing in common...the love of flying.My daughter suffers developmental verbal dyspraxia which means her brain can compose sentences, insert punctuation etc but at times, especially when she is tired or anxious, what comes out of her mouth in conversation is nothing like what was in her head (a type of word salad but no where near as bad). Both her and I know first hand how cruel people are by only judging what they see without knowing the facts. Caitlin may not at times be able to hold a conversation properly with the correct words, pronounciation, punctuation etc but yesterday came home from her Tertiary Enabling Program after receiving 98.65% in her Maths exam.

 

Neil, and those that have met Neil face to face will know, he is the first person that will come to your aid no matter what, he has been taken for a ride by others in this industry which has hurt him considerably, and it sickens me to see others with the same passion as Neil's, i.e. flying, being so judgemental without knowing the facts...without knowing Neil face to face

Hear hear

 

 

[Yenn]

Poor punctuation and spelling makes it hard to understand what someone is saying. It is possible that the assumed meaning is not what the reader intended. That is why I deplore it, especially if the writer is setting himself up as an expert.

 

The comment about having an aircraft capable of more than the owner is capable of being wrong is just rubbish. Who would say that having a car capable of braking if it was closing on another vehicle is wrong. BMW can do that and I think a cheap Ford can also do it now.

 

What is really wrong is blathering on about an unfortunate accident with nothing to say, which maybe I am guilty of.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

I am only" judging" Neil on his writing on this forum,he probably as you suggest a very nice chap,but if Niel wants us to hear and heed what he is writing on the forum he needs to check what he has written,as you say we have not all had the same education(and I put myself in that bracket to) maybe some help to write ,if I have derided Neil I apologise

 

cheers Gareth

 

 

[Admin]

Thread closed