XC endorsement and prohibited areas.

[Ozfergie]

Does anyone have any advice on how close is an acceptable distance to fly from the boundary of an active prohibited area?

 

I have been set a trip which sees one leg run next to a prohibited area (which may or may not be activated on the day).

 

I'm thinking a 5nm distance from it might the right approach, if activated?

 

 

[Yenn]

As long as you are clear you are legal, but you have to know you are clear, so the answer depends up on your ability to be certain of your position. On a short flight with plenty of navigational clues you could be very close, but after a long flight and with little to guide you 5 miles may be about correct. Of course if you can use GPS it is much easier to be correct.

 

 

[SSCBD]

I use, and was taught in GA AND as rule of thumb, using visual VFR nav rules with paper maps is - ONE Nautical Mile from the line on the map below 5 thousand feet as long as you have specific reference position points. But of course as above GPS just makes it tooo easy these days.

 

 

[facthunter]

All the distances are from the ARP shown on the Landing chart. I believe the GPS cannot be relied upon to reference this data. You are out till you are in but caution would indicate to err on extra distance allowed. Nev

 

 

[Chocolate]

There is no 'active prohibited '. Prohibited is prohibited.

 

Restricted has activated, not activated. Might be wise to look up the aip. I was taught 1 m from boundary.

 

 

[Ozfergie]

There is no 'active prohibited '. Prohibited is prohibited. Restricted has activated, not activated. Might be wise to look up the aip. I was taught 1 m from boundary.

Apologies - I meant Restricted.

 

 

[RKW]

Apologies - I meant Restricted.

Clearance from controlled and active restricted airspace depend on what altitude you intend to fly at. Below 2001 ft: 1nm, 2001 to 5000ft: 2nm, and 5001 to 10,000 ft: 4 nm. Hope this helps!

 

 

[Ozfergie]

Clearance from controlled and active restricted airspace depend on what altitude you intend to fly at. Below 2001 ft: 1nm, 2001 to 5000ft: 2nm, and 5001 to 10,000 ft: 4 nm. Hope this helps!

Just what I was looking for - thank you - where did you/could I read this?

 

 

[ian00798]

There is no 'active prohibited '. Prohibited is prohibited. Restricted has activated, not activated. Might be wise to look up the aip. I was taught 1 m from boundary.

In fact at the moment there are no prohibited areas in Australia. Pine gap used to be prohibited, however was changed to an RA3 restricted area active 24/7 (R215 I believe the identifier is)

 

 

[Nightmare]

Just what I was looking for - thank you - where did you/could I read this?

It was aviation law up to a few years ago, now it is a suggestion. I might also add that it is good practice, as you never know exactly how the wind can blow you off course, having that buffer keeps you clear.Tony

 

 

[KRviator]

Just what I was looking for - thank you - where did you/could I read this?

The actual reference - AIP ENR 1.1.19.12 has been changed from specific numbers to effectively remaining clear at a distance you decide. "Strict liability" anyone? You can't use the "my FPT was outside the 1NM buffer" anymore...

[RKW]

It appears to have been deleted out of the latest Aip, yet there is still a question on separation in the latest RAAus air legislation test.

 

 

[KRviator]

Yep, this was discussed a few months ago when it was removed - in the context of failing the exam based on questions that do not marry up to the current AIP. I think it was about May last year it went.

 

EDIT: Must be getting old. The discussion about this AIP change & exam question was in 2015...So May the year before last!

 

 

[Geoff13]

It appears to have been deleted out of the latest Aip, yet there is still a question on separation in the latest RAAus air legislation test.

Just because something is in an RAA exam does not make it correct. I am 3 years into my flying journey and the RAA exams have had glaring errors for those 3 years.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

It appears to have been deleted out of the latest Aip, yet there is still a question on separation in the latest RAAus air legislation test.

No problems having the question, if the correct answer is that you must remain clear of CTA or Restricted Airspace and that you must determine the boundary by ground reference and map, not primarily using GPS.

 

 

[Garfly]

Speaking of Restricted Areas, I see that the 'temporary' Romeo zones to the west of Willy have finally made it onto the charts.

 

I think it's been a couple of years now that they've been in force but not indicated on any charts.

 

Whenever I've been listening to Area (125.7) the controllers seemed to be forever chasing errant aviators out of those spaces.

 

I'd made my own little waypoints on OzRWYs to remind me of the boundary corners.

 

I think they used to be called R976 and 977 in their temporary form.

 

But now they've taken the names of their close relatives:

 

R578F (4500/8500) and R578G (3500/8500)

 

So if you're buzzing around Cessnock/Maitland/Lake Macquarie or heading for the VFR lane (The curvy corridor top centre of screenshot) northbound, don't forget to duck your head in time. (Although you need to be at or below 1600' by the time you enter the lane anyway.)

 

 

 

[Garfly]

By the way, that lane is only 3 miles wide for much of its length as it follows the railway. And because we're expected to keep right of the tracks, that gives 1.5NM useable width. So, no way to give a nice wide berth to the fast-jet playground surrounding the tunnel on three sides. (And the ground squeezes up to scarcely 500' in places, too, so no marginalia there either. ;-) It's a beautiful flight, though, on a nice day.

 

I think there are other tight squeezes around the traps, as well. For example, between Amberley and Brisbane airspace it gets down to just a 4NM eye to thread, at one point. At those tolerances, in a strange land, thank goodness for our (extra-legal) GPS/EFBs.

 

If you're unfamiliar, one hill and/or one shopping centre can looks sooo much like its nearby neighbour.

 

 

[Dave English]

The law is the law, so being in is in and being out is out. Otherwise there would be liability issues, etc. It's a bit like driving at 100 is legal but 101 is not. I was advised that "well clear" is appropriate, though what that means will depend on your airmanship and circumstance. My instructor said that those who fly with GPS are often the offenders as they fly right up to the boundaries considering themselves safe. ATC might say," you might be outside but can you please get your wing outside also".

 

 

[Pearo]

Speaking of Restricted Areas, I see that the 'temporary' Romeo zones to the west of Willy have finally made it onto the charts.I think it's been a couple of years now that they've been in force but not indicated on any charts.

 

Whenever I've been listening to Area (125.7) the controllers seemed to be forever chasing errant aviators out of those spaces.

That is what the AIP/SUP's are for Aeronautical Information Package (AIP) | Airservices (hope that link works, its from my account). I have always been taught to check them when flight planning.

 

 

[Garfly]

True, the temporary restricted areas were there in SUP for all to see.

 

Still and all, the controllers, seemed to cut blunderers a bit of slack on the basis of it not being on the charts yet. They also tended to give out a lot of pre-emptive warnings on the same basis. It must have taken up a lot of their time and attention, actually.

 

So, all the area stakeholders must be pleased to see the new R zones finally get into print - of the map kind.

 

Those blunderers without transponders, though, might just remain fat, dumb and happy to this day. Romeo? Wherefore art thou?

 

Another blessing of the EFB age is that pilots - even the ill-trained and the errant - are more likely to be working with up to date charts. Plus, they're far more likely to have that AIP/SUP close at hand.

 

 

[Ayecapt]

Does anyone have any advice on how close is an acceptable distance to fly from the boundary of an active prohibited area?I have been set a trip which sees one leg run next to a prohibited area (which may or may not be activated on the day).

 

Others might think im being a bit vauge here but 2 nm is what will be expected of you on the flight. But wont be unhappy if its a little earlier ie turn away at a point that is easily confirmed on yor map ( if possible 3 points of coincidence. The idea is to make sure you dont infringe, its not about getting as close as you can to a restricted area . So find some points on the map you feel you can spot from your chosen height that are around that 3 to 5 mile range.. you can even make a comment to your instructor at this point that you are unable to reach the requested turning point because of the RA ........BC