WOW these are good looking gadjets

[Kyle Communications]

[Kyle Communications]

I especially like the wing turbine to power and charge the unit

 

 

[Camel]

Thanks for posting ! So is my understanding correct ? With both units the ADSB in and out plus position of other aircraft will show on a iPad or android screen that is being supplied GPS information. This would do away with transponder also ?

 

 

[planesmaker]

Transponder still required!

 

 

[Camel]

Transponder still required!

For mode C out ? Will this still be required if mode S equiped in the future ?

 

 

[jetjr]

Id assume the ADSB isnt suited to Australian system.

 

Certs for gps would need CASA approval wouldntt they.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I like that BOM unit. Am I mistaken, or for an experimental all you need is that plus an Ipad and there's your basic flight instrumentation?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I believe CASA were taking up the same specs for the ADSB except they wont make everyone do all of the addons like traffic etc. I still think you need a transponder though with the beacon...its not well explained in the video. I have asked the question. I see Levil also has a announcement coming at Oskosh..seems they maybe tied up with ECO from TruTrak

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Thats it Marty...Just need a Ipad and your done

 

 

[jetjr]

I thought we were running a different frequency? Or protocol?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

ADSB world wide is on 1090 mhz and the information protocol is the same...the only difference is I dont think we will be reading all the protocol just the stuff CASA wants to implement

 

 

[KRviator]

ADSB world wide is on 1090 mhz and the information protocol is the same...the only difference is I dont think we will be reading all the protocol just the stuff CASA wants to implement

The problem is, ILevil seems to be using "ADS-B IN" with a weather graphic, suggesting it isn't ADS-B so much as the US version, TIS-B, operating on the 978 band, not the international-standard 1090...I have tried to find a spec-sheet without success so far, but if it is 1090, it could work well for Australia!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I think the weather side of it is just USA based and that is the 978mhz stuff...it looks like you still need a transponder to pickup the squark code you are sending. It will have a 1090 rx in it so you should be getting all the other aircraft squarks and their position data

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The weather stuff is not going to be used here at all I believe. CASA didnt wish it :)

 

 

[jetjr]

US only uses 1090 for aircraft at high levels, like FL180

 

Below this they using 978, i think

 

Depends how its setup but AU wont have weather or WAAS gps and adsb needs cert source

 

This was all basis for complaints implementing adsb before and differently to USA where most aviation tech comes from

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Out vs. In

 

ADS-B is made up of two main parts: ADS-B Out and ADS-B In. Out is of interest to controllers, while In is mostly of interest to pilots.

 

 

When completed in early 2014, the network of ADS-B ground stations will provide nearly nationwide coverage.

 

ADS-B Out is a surveillance technology for tracking aircraft–it’s what ATC needs to manage traffic. It reports your aircraft’s position, velocity and altitude once per second. This transmission is received by ATC and nearby aircraft and this data makes up the equivalent of a radar display. Most aircraft will be required to have ADS-B Out by 2020 (see below).

 

ADS-B In allows an aircraft to receive transmissions from ADS-B ground stations and other aircraft. This is how pilots can get subscription-free weather and traffic in the cockpit. Adding ADS-B In is strictly optional. While it offers some great benefits, the FAA is only concerned about you equipping with ADS-B Out–the free weather and traffic is simply the carrot to get you to write a check.

 

Note that there are various combinations of these two: Out-only equipment that simply meets the FAA requirement, In-only portable devices that receive weather, and ADS-B In/Out products that do it all. One thing to keep in mind–there is no such thing as a portable ADS-B Out device. All Out equipment must be panel-installed.

 

1090 vs. 978

 

You would think that would be the end of the confusion with ADS-B, but unfortunately you would be wrong. Due to concerns about frequency congestion (and other issues too boring to detail here), there are two different datalink technologies that meet the ADS-B requirement: 1090 MHz ES and 978 MHz UAT. As the names imply, these are simply different frequencies used by the equipment to transmit and receive data.

 

 

Mode S transponders like Garmin’s GTX 330 can sometimes be upgraded to ADS-B Out.

 

1090 Extended Squitter (ES) is based on 1090 MHz, just like our Mode A/C/S transponders. In fact, some Mode S transponders (like Garmin’s GTX 330) can be upgraded to an ES transponder by upgrading the software and adding a WAAS GPS. This is the only technology accepted outside the US and above 18,000 feet, so it will be popular with turbine airplanes. ES receivers can detect other aircraft with ES transmitters air-to-air, and they can receive other traffic information uplinked from ADS-B ground stations. But there is no weather datalink on 1090.

 

978 products are sometimes called UAT, for Universal Access Transceiver. This is only available in the US, and only below 18,000 feet, so it is aimed mostly at piston aircraft. Like a 1090 ES receiver, UATs can detect other airplanes with transmitters on the same frequency (978 MHz) air-to-air and also receive the rest of the traffic picture from ADS-B ground stations. But weather is also transmitted over 978 MHz, an added bonus.

 

This ends up being a real mess. You can have all kinds of different equipment: 978 Out only, 978 Out/In, 1090ES Out only and even a combined 1090ES Out/978 In. At the end of the day, you should choose the Out frequency that matches your flying. If you fly above 18,000 feet or outside the US, 1090ES is your only option. If you don’t, a 978 UAT could work. After you’ve chosen your Out frequency, the only other decision is whether you want ADS-B weather; since that’s only available on 978, that’s a simpler decision.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Weather and Traffic

 

Since weather and traffic come into play so much during any discussion of ADS-B, let’s define some terms: FIS-B and TIS-B. These are the two products that we can receive via ADS-B In.

 

Flight Information Services-Broadcast (FIS-B) is just a fancy name for datalink weather. Only available with a 978 MHz receiver, the end product is very similar to what we’re used to seeing with XM Weather. NEXRAD radar, METARs, TAFs, TFRs, AIRMETs and other information is continuously updated in flight, and all this can be displayed on either a panel-mount MFD or a portable device like an iPad. There is no monthly subscription fee with FIS-B (your tax dollars paid for it), which is a nice feature. But unlike XM Weather, ADS-B weather uses the network of ground stations, not satellites. That means coverage, while pretty good now and getting a lot better, is not as universal as XM.

 

Traffic Information Services-Broadcast (TIS-B) is what the name suggests–datalink traffic. But leave it to the FAA to make this complicated. Unlike ADS-B weather, which is broadcast to anyone in range of the ground stations, ADS-B traffic is a custom report that is only sent to aircraft with ADS-B Out. If you’re flying with an ADS-B Out transmitter in your airplane, you’ll get an excellent picture of all traffic within roughly 30 miles of you. But if you’re not flying with an ADS-B Out transmitter (say, with a portable ADS-B In receiver), TIS-B is fairly unreliable. Read this article for complete details on this confusing subject.

 

 

[planesmaker]

I take it that if you don't have ADSB out then other traffic that have ADSB in won't see you anyway?

 

 

[jetjr]

Correct

 

And thats why ifr aircraft that had to fit it arent happy as they cant see other vfr aircraft any better than always.

 

As well as those who bought early expensive systems now see deadline extended.

 

They and the airlines have spent big to implement this and see little benefit

 

 

[graham brown]

ADSB has been implemented in Australia on 1090 MHz and it has been mandated for all IFR aircraft. UAT, the USA, system will not work in Australia so don't buy it. Some vfr aircraft in Australia have installed adsb but the equipment is very expensive. ADSB for vfr aircraft in Australia will be non mandatory so it has to be priced well so the benefits can be justified.

 

Relaxed standards for the devices, their installation and maintenance is required to achieve this. The greatest benefit for vfr flight is an aid to see and avoid. You need both adsb in and out for this and then you see others and be seen. The manufacturers are gearing up for this now with new products. See uavionix web site for example. Small adsb out devices can be put on drones so they can be seen by Adsb in and TCAS. CASA and industry are working on vfr adsb in Australia now. UK have already come out with their system which is a conspicuity system, be seen and they will avoid you. USA has gone UAT with data uplink for weather etc but is very expensive for the ground system. All of the rest of the world so far has gone 1090mhz for adsb with one ground system. ADSB uses an S mode transponder and to get access to some airspace you need a transponder. You won't need a separate transponder if you have ADSB.

 

 

[jetjr]

Good info

 

Why would vfr spend money on adsb out? Many have just C transponder

 

Are collisions a real risk? Very rare.

 

Even a simple adsb is expensive into a $50 K or less aircraft

 

 

[KRviator]

I put in a Mode-S transponder and a Dynon GPS-2020 that is approved for a GNSS Position Source for ADS-B in America. But CASA have yet to sign off on anything like that down here. I think most transponders these days are Mode-S, so the real difference in cost is the GNSS position source.

 

As for collisions, there's been several light aircraft recently, in the last 10 years or so, that ADS-B would have prevented. Personally, I'm all for it, provided that the cost is reasonable, and by that, I don't mean having to spend $10,000+ on a Garmin 430.

 

 

[jetjr]

Maybe most NEW transponder installs are mode S, (in fact they have to be after feb 2013??) by far the bulk would be C i would guess.

 

Plenty of vfr have portable gps only

 

If or when they mandate adsb for everyone, the safety benefit may be significant, until then plenty of aircraft out there to run into

 

Outside CTA only a portion of aircraft run transponder at all and IFR run around there too.

 

 

[Roscoe]

I especially like the wing turbine to power and charge the unit

Hi Kyle

Can you tell me the steps to post a photo to a thread?

 

I seem to have lost the instructions that i had a few weeks ago.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

 

[Roscoe]

Just worked out the photo upload process!

 

This is a Solar Battery Charger i saw in a Auto Supply shop.

 

I am not sure about the instruction on the box which talks about a controller so as not to overcharge the Battery?

 

I run a 12v Odyssey PC625 in my Aircraft.

 

Would appreciate advice if this Charger is suitable.

 

Thanks guys.